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KS18XL, 6'-3" Tall, 265-LBS


Bridgeboy

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So I've had my first wheel, KS18XL, for 3-days now. I've logged 62-miles so far. I've been fine at speed and only tipped over a few times while attempting tight turns or other maneuvers at near stand still.

It seems I'm a much bigger person than most who ride these wheels, so as I continue to gain experience, what can I expect to be different due to my size? Almost all videos I've seen are from smaller people...usually about half my weight. I assume my height is largely irrelevant, but what about my 265-LBS weight? Will this significantly reduce the max speed of the wheel? (I don't plan on going anywhere close to max speed for a long time). Will the infamous cut-out be something that could happen at a much slower speed than other lighter riders might expereince? Will the wheel experience significantly lower range than advertised?

Any advice any of you experienced riders can offer will be appreciated. Are any of you large like me? Maybe some of you are even bigger? The wheel is rated for 330-lbs after all.

The one fear that does trickle through my mind from time to time while riding is that the pedals are going to break off. Probably an irrational fear, but when you weigh this much it's something that naturally crosses your mind.

Thank for any replies. :D

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Yes, there are huge ramifications of being heavy as applied to segwheels. The max speed won't be significantly lower, because while the rolling resistance is proportional to weight, at significant speeds it is relatively minor compared to air drag, which depends only on cross section area, which is not that much different for people of different weights.

But acceleration and going uphill should be toned down according to weight, because inertial force in the former case and gravitational pull in the latter are proportional to weight. Let's say your total riding weight is 330lbs (including the wheel and gear), and you're on a group ride with someone with the same wheel who's total weight is half of that, 165lbs. Imagine you're going up some steep slope, so that for the light rider the thrust needed is 50% of motor's max thrust. So, your buddy has 50% of motor thrust in reserve. Easy peasy little hill, right? The thrust needed for you will be double that of your buddy's, so you need 100% of motor's max thrust at the same speed, which means an overlean, since the motor has no extra power left to do the balancing. Boom! Face, meet Asphalt; Asphalt, meet Face!

Same with acceleration, your buddy easily accelerates at 0.2g (which is less than 5mph per second) using 50% of motor; you try the same, and your inertia is 2x and you load the motor at 100% and faceplant.

I've set up this simulation for 165 and 330lbs going up 20% slope (or equivalent of accelerating at about 0.2g) if you want to play with numbers:

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?batt=cust_84_0.2_20&cont=cust_150_300_0.03_V&hp=0&wheel=18i&frame=cust_1_0.02&grade=20&cont_b=cust_150_300_0.03_V&batt_b=cust_84_0.2_20&wheel_b=18i&frame_b=cust_1_0.02&hp_b=0&grade_b=20&bopen=true&mass=75&mass_b=150&blue=Lbs

So, you need to be very, very careful and calculative in your riding.

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Great. So two people my size essentially say there is nothing to worry about based on real riding experience, and one person says my weight is a big deal based on theoretical calculations and physics...hmmm. I’m clear as mud now. 😩

In any case, I don’t plan on “pushing hard” anytime soon. But just knowing what “pushing hard” even is, is part of the learning experience at some point.

Thanks for the replies 😁

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6 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

I’m clear as mud now. 😩

You have a very powerful wheel but your weight just means your safety margin will be less than a 165lb rider on the same wheel. That doesn't make it dangerous, it just means you need to be conscious of when your wheel is likely to be using a lot of energy and simply dial things back a smidgen. 

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1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

You have a very powerful wheel but your weight just means your safety margin will be less than a 165lb rider on the same wheel. That doesn't make it dangerous, it just means you need to be conscious of when your wheel is likely to be using a lot of energy and simply dial things back a smidgen. 

Thanks. One of the reasons I choose a Kingsong was its reputation for safety.

I’m hoping to be able to set tilt back at a speed that will prevent me from ever experiencing a cut-out. I plan on riding at lower speeds until the 125-mile unlock stage when that extra, I think it is another 10 km/hr, for a max of 50 km/hr, gets unlocked. However, using the KS app right now it is letting me set speeds all the way to 30 mph right now. They call tilt back “warping” in the app. It seems as if that legendary full unlock riding mileage is not activated on my wheel...at least not if I can trust what the software is telling me.

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1 hour ago, Bridgeboy said:

Great. So two people my size essentially say there is nothing to worry about based on real riding experience, and one person says my weight is a big deal based on theoretical calculations and physics...hmmm. I’m clear as mud now. 😩

In any case, I don’t plan on “pushing hard” anytime soon. But just knowing what “pushing hard” even is, is part of the learning experience at some point.

Thanks for the replies 😁

I am not quite that heavy (220 pounds) but I am a very aggressive rider. I do break things but not on the XL. While it is possible to overpower the XL, I have to work hard to do it. The most important thing is to slow down when it tells you to. Watch out for acceleration or high speeds while going up or down hills. 

You have the right wheel for the job! :thumbup:

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48 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I am not quite that heavy (220 pounds) but I am a very aggressive rider. I do break things but not on the XL. While it is possible to overpower the XL, I have to work hard to do it. The most important thing is to slow down when it tells you to. Watch out for acceleration or high speeds while going up or down hills. 

You have the right wheel for the job! :thumbup:

Thanks! :D

You guys that have Kingsongs please take a look at this thread I made in the Kingsong forum. It seems from my perspective that my wheel does not have any safety speed limits imposed like Kingsongs are supposedly always supposed to have until certain distances have been logged:

 

 

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11 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

Great. So two people my size essentially say there is nothing to worry about based on real riding experience, and one person says my weight is a big deal based on theoretical calculations and physics...hmmm. I’m clear as mud now. 😩

In any case, I don’t plan on “pushing hard” anytime soon. But just knowing what “pushing hard” even is, is part of the learning experience at some point.

Thanks for the replies 😁

Two things you need to consider... Lighter riders don't experience the physics, and Gotway wheels won't reign you in.

Currently i am riding (testing) a number of Gotway wheels and I am constantly worried. On my 18XL, I don't worry at all. It's true that I am more familiar, but at the same time I know that KS restrict me when required...

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Our hoverwheels can restrict us by speed by tilting pedals, but they can't restrict us by load (although they can beep at high loads, at least my GT16 does), and they can't "see" what's coming up next. For example, going up a steep slope AND going over a speed bump or pothole with the front edge of the bump/pothole having an impossible angle for the wheel to overcome, for heavy weight (no problem for light weight). FMAAMF*

 

* Face, meet Asphalt, Asphalt, meet Face!

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12 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

Great. So two people my size essentially say there is nothing to worry about based on real riding experience, and one person says my weight is a big deal based on theoretical calculations and physics...hmmm. I’m clear as mud now. 😩

And they are all correct! The thing is, these modern wheels can accelerate so incredibly fast even for heavy people, that the natural instinct of what one can expect from a simple wheel following us to catch our fall has been overwhelmed long ago. So it is very difficult to judge what one can and can’t expect from the wheel, especially in the beginning. One good rule is to never do anything very suddenly.

3-4 years ago we only had wheels with just a fraction of the 18XL’s power. We could still ride and enjoy the jeebies out of ourselves. But just like today, the expectations must agree with the available performance.

If you ride sensibly, there is nothing to worry about, and the 18XL should even yell ”Overpower” if you ever get near it’s limits. But if you look at YT videos and want to accelerate like Chooch, or try to race with anyone on a 100V Gotway, that just won’t happen and you will kiss the ground.

12 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

In any case, I don’t plan on “pushing hard” anytime soon. But just knowing what “pushing hard” even is, is part of the learning experience at some point.

Unfortunately there is no quick way of learning what ”pushing hard” means, other than visiting the hurtful side of the limits. So just ride, scan your path rigorously, think ahead, have fun, and don’t go crazy. After a few thousand miles you’ll start to develop a seventh sense for your wheel, and you will know so much better what it can do.

 

For the pedals, I think KS pedals are the strongest of them all. Wouldn’t worry about them. But as with everything, if you at any time feel, hear or see anything different than usual, examine.

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My advice is sell it and get a Gotway before you overpower it and cut out.  Mine had problems running at speed and going over bumps and dips.

Less problems on an 84v Gotway.

No problems on 100v Gotway.

 

6'2" 270lbs and have ridden all the major 16-18" wheels extensively except the KS16X and Tesla which are both underpowered for a human this size traveling at high 20s/30mph+

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8 hours ago, Jason Ramsey said:

My advice is sell it and get a Gotway before you overpower it and cut out.  Mine had problems running at speed and going over bumps and dips.

Less problems on an 84v Gotway.

No problems on 100v Gotway.

 

6'2" 270lbs and have ridden all the major 16-18" wheels extensively except the KS16X and Tesla which are both underpowered for a human this size traveling at high 20s/30mph+

Thanks for the experienced advice! :D

I'm thinking what will probably end up happening is I'll keep it, and after sufficient expereince, I'll ALSO buy a 100v Gotway. I've been eyeing the 100V MSX and also maybe and/or the Monster. I've also been considering the Ninebot Z10 with that big fat tire.

I just read that this KS18XL was a good starter wheel for a beginner. The Gotways currently scare me a little because of their (lack of) safety history.

Is your expereince on a KS18XL with a new one with the newer 2,200 watt motor?

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2 hours ago, Bridgeboy said:

The Gotways currently scare me a little because of their (lack of) safety history.

In practice, there is no difference. Kingsongs don't suddenly fail and Gotways don't suddenly fail. There may be some tiny expections, but these are less about brand and more about individual (wheel or rider) bad luck.

Moderns wheels are extremely strong. Yet you can overlean any wheel if you really try. Just go the top speed and then do a crazy acceleration. The result is an inevitable faceplant. Every device has a power limit, for EUCs exceeding it means a fall.

As long as you ride with a bit of restraint, everything will be fine. That applies to any EUC rider, but especially to heavier riders. Don't accelerate hard into obstacles (like a beginning incline or some other sudden power draw). Don't accelerate like crazy because the wheel can only do so much acceleration. Don't do anything sudden (except braking) near the top speed where your margins are at their lowest already. Never ignore warning beeps and tiltback. Etc.

For the rest (extremely rare bad luck, as well as a 100000000000% more likely rider error like an unseen pothole, which is what you really should care about) you have protective gear. Wrist guards, knee pads, (full face) helmet, etc.

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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

In practice, there is no difference. Kingsongs don't suddenly fail and Gotways don't suddenly fail. There may be some tiny expections, but these are less about brand and more about individual (wheel or rider) bad luck.

Moderns wheels are extremely strong. Yet you can overlean any wheel if you really try. Just go the top speed and then do a crazy acceleration. The result is an inevitable faceplant. Every device has a power limit, for EUCs exceeding it means a fall.

As long as you ride with a bit of restraint, everything will be fine. That applies to any EUC rider, but especially to heavier riders. Don't accelerate hard into obstacles (like a beginning incline or some other sudden power draw). Don't accelerate like crazy because the wheel can only do so much acceleration. Don't do anything sudden (except braking) near the top speed where your margins are at their lowest already. Never ignore warning beeps and tiltback. Etc.

For the rest (extremely rare bad luck, as well as a 100000000000% more likely rider error like an unseen pothole, which is what you really should care about) you have protective gear. Wrist guards, knee pads, (full face) helmet, etc.

Thank you so much for the very seasoned and sensible response. :D I will take it heart. I have relatively jam-packed as much experience as I can into this "sport?" over these first 6-days of ownership, and last 6-days of Holiday time off; and I return to the grind of the work week tomorrow.

I had a super ride today on a dedicated biking trail on a beautiful clear blue sky, cloudless, day between 55° and 59° Fahrenheit. I logged another 48.27 miles. I started at 100% battery and ended with 20.72% battery left over. 191.35 miles now officially logged through first 6-days of ownership. My skills are definitely improving. Now I can heal my soreness during this coming week of work. :wacko:

After hitting 25% battery left the ride is basically over because of the throttling. I can definitely see the advantage of owning more than one wheel in the future (different model): To always have another ready that is fully charged. I envision a Gotway in my future. What do you'all heavy guys think about the Ninebot Z10?

 

 

191 Miles on KS18XL.png

48.27 miles on 79.28% battery.png

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Surely the Z10 has a much smaller range than the 18XL and it certainly hasn't been error free wheel. If you want a longer range then there's currently only the Gotway monster or the KS18S. Obviously the monster is a much heavier beast while the 18S only adds about 10 miles to the range on your 18XL. The manufactures are likely to come out with their new wheels soon so it might be worth waiting. 

PS I believe these wheels have the longest range at the moment.

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1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Surely the Z10 has a much smaller range than the 18XL and it certainly hasn't been error free wheel. If you want a longer range then there's currently only the Gotway monster or the KS18S. Obviously the monster is a much heavier beast while the 18S only adds about 10 miles to the range on your 18XL. The manufactures are likely to come out with their new wheels soon so it might be worth waiting. 

PS I believe these wheels have the longest range at the moment.

Thanks for that link! One thing I notice it's missing though is the 100 volt Monster. Those ranges for the Monsters listed also seem way higher than advertised on eWheels site. So are the speeds for that matter.

It would be nice to have a new wheel show up on the market that beats everything to date!

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On 1/5/2020 at 4:26 AM, Jason Ramsey said:

No problems on 100v Gotway.

6'2" 270lbs and have ridden all the major 16-18" wheels extensively except the KS16X and Tesla which are both underpowered for a human this size traveling at high 20s/30mph+

Are you saying any 100v Gotway? As in either the 100v MSX, or Nikola, or Monster, are all good for people our size with no problems?

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I was once 155kg that’s 340lbs :| and had a Ninebot one e+
 

even had it up to 30km/h which is faster than it’s supposed to go (early firmware) never died

 

just don’t expect it to keep your face off the ground if you push it though, you can ride anything if you take it easy

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44 minutes ago, Bridgeboy said:

Thanks for that link! One thing I notice it's missing though is the 100 volt Monster. Those ranges for the Monsters listed also seem way higher than advertised on eWheels site. So are the speeds for that matter.

It would be nice to have a new wheel show up on the market that beats everything to date!

The figures in the report are just the numbers given by the manufacturer. If you live in flatland, weigh nothing and always ride in a vacuum then those figures are probably correct. Ewheels are very good and seem to provide far more realistic numbers. The web site is maintained by me but anyone can update the figures or add new EUC's though I'm not sure if anyone has ;) I find it useful when looking at the details for different wheels and then hitting compare to see how they differ.

Remember when you say "beats everything" that there are always compromises - more range = more batteries = more weight etc. 3" tyres are nice and comfy but almost certainly have more friction with the road so range goes down for a given battery size etc. One way of increasing the range on your current wheel is to put more air in the tyres, set the ride mode to a middle setting and just ride a little slower. The extreme option might be to lose a little weight and perhaps bicycle once a week but maybe we've just missed out on new year resolutions ;)

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9 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

If you want a longer range then there's currently only the Gotway monster or the KS18S.

There are also the 1800Wh (21700) and 1845Wh (18650) 100V Nikolas, the 2100Wh (18650) 84V Nikola, and the unofficial 2700Wh (21700) 100V Nikola by 1rad.

And maybe some unofficial MSX and Monster mods.

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On 1/6/2020 at 6:18 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

There are also the 1800Wh (21700) and 1845Wh (18650) 100V Nikolas, the 2100Wh (18650) 84V Nikola, and the unofficial 2700Wh (21700) 100V Nikola by 1rad.

And maybe some unofficial MSX and Monster mods.

I was only intending on showing data for official models otherwise you can quickly go down a rabbit hole. Unfortunately I can't find any data on these new models. Do you have any info on range, weight, speed & price (I guess nothing else would differ)? I didn't include info on the 1300 or 650 models either as no one seemed to buy them or sell them. I'm happy to put the data into the web database etc.

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1800Wh, 1845Wh, 2100Wh Nikolas are official: http://kebye.com/productinfo/371591.html. 2700Wh 1rad is custom but beyond doubt quality-wise, unlike possibly mods sold by various Ali sellers, so I listed it like it was official (arguably it's better).

Ranges scale linearly with battery size. x% more Wh = x% more range. The rest depends on the rider.

Speeds are independent of battery size and just depend on whether it's 100V or 84V. Nothing new here. We don't have official beep speeds for the Nikola yet (as oppose to the other models).

Weights... you can check https://ecodrift.ru/ (shop and blog posts) for various weights (they have some and not others listed).

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The 1800, 1845 and 2100 batteries aren't that different to the 1900 so it shouldn't affect the range that much. My knowledge of electrics isn't that good but I'd expect the 100v batteries to just offer more acceleration with slightly reduced range so the difference would be smaller still. The 2700 isn't official (even if it's well made) so I'm not inclined to put it in but you're welcome to ;)

 

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