V8f vs V10 as a first wheel

[mrelwood]

21 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

It comes with a trolley handle stock actually.

Ah, sorry about that! I blame my memory instead of the sneaky design though... 

 

20 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

What’s the best way to stay on top of the rumor mill?

The Inmotion section of the forum should be quite quick to deliver any news, as there are a lot of riders eyeing the new wheel quite hard. Look for threads titled V12, V20 or VX. Two threads exist already.

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I thought Inmotion updated their pedals to fix this?

They updated the pedals for something, but the very structure that has been prone to cracking seems identical in terms of design and material thickness. It could be that the material itself is more rigid, but it is still too early to tell if there is a notable difference in durability.

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Woot really?That's a first!

 

[chroma]

On 12/28/2019 at 8:52 AM, raiden00 said:

Hi everyone!

Thinking about getting my first wheel, and I'm not sure what to choose. 

I'm about 6' <180lbs. I'd like to spend about 1000 USD. I don't need a lot of speed (I think I'll very rarely hit 20mph), but I really want safety. I own a OneWheel+ and really want something that is extremely hard to cut out under reasonable riding (I nosedived with my OW at about 10mph due to motor cutoff caused by bump in the sidewalk...). 

The upcoming V8f looks great as a first wheel due to how portable it looks. I may take the wheel with me in the work shuttle commute a few times a month and would like to keep the wheel in the bus seat with me. Also, I may have to carry the wheel a significant flight of stairs when taking the subway a few times a week. However I'm a bit worried about the V8f's power due to my weight and the hills in SF, where I live. But then again, I don't plan on going fast. 

The other option that looks great at a similar price is the V10 (about 100USD more with the current ewheels promo). I like that the V10 is much more powerful, so it seems safer than the V8f. However, it seems way bigger/heavier, so taking it on the shuttle and up the subway stairs may be way harder. Also, I hear that the V8f will be more maneuverable and can brake faster.  

Thoughts? Thanks! Really looking forward to my first EUC!

I ordered the v8f- learned on a v8 about a year ago-I purchased a kingsong 18l last april, loved it however is much heavier than the v8- Problem that I have is that I also commute- I have to take a train and sometimes a bus- I was able to take the ks 18l on the train no problem, however, on the bus was a different story- I had one bus driver in particular who insisted that the my ks18l was a scooter and therefore banned from the bus- I explained to him that it wasn't but insisted and told me that next time he wouldn't pick me up- I had taken my v8 on the bus without issue --mainly because the trolley handle resembles most luggage handles, that, and  since it weighs less  than the ks18l I do not struggle too much carrying it up a couple of steps up the bus.  I sometimes put a plastic bag on the wheel to disguise it a bit but that only really works on the v8 since the trolley handle and the actual handle are separate not one piece like the ks18l which can't be carried with the trolley handle out. I bought a v8f because of its upgraded motor --yes the v8 is not as powerful in particular going up hills-I haven't been able to go above 17 mph, but I also carry a laptop in my bag- The price is very decent- yes you can buy a v10f for a couple of hundred dollars more but the weight will increase as well and I personally do not like trolley handle. BTW-- I am 5'3 woman. my commute is 35 miles one way (train helps a lot) --on my unicycle I ride-15 going, 15 coming back- Both are safe wheels-had a couple of flats on the ks 18l none on the v8- trust the v8 more  in the rain- ks18l is a very comfy ride, plus you can go much faster (usually ride 22mph). 

Edited January 1, 2020 by chroma

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[Brandin J. Mercer]

On 12/30/2019 at 4:38 AM, raiden00 said:

Sure!

I haven't biked for years. I own a OneWheel+. I love it and ride it on the weekends but I definitely don't trust it for commuting due to lack of power/nosedives. 

I’m in my early 30s, engineer, and have been a martial artist and soccer player most of my life. I've a 1 year old, which means that I really don't have time for much these days. Even though I really like sports and have practiced them all my life I'm fairly risk adverse. I envision taking it slow with the EUC: get familiar with it I open areas, commute via wide sidewalks and then, only when/if I'm comfortable, in the bike lane. I would also ride it on the weekends in Golden Gate Park where we have huge smooth roads with no cars. 

A colleague has a V8 that he uses for commuting and convinced me to look into EUCs:

• Safer than OneWheel due to additional power and warnings before cutoff
• Bigger diameter than electric skateboard wheels means potholes are less worrisome
• Portable: you can push them with the handle when you walk with someone, do groceries etc. Also, you can take them with you in the bus/train depending on the size.

So I wouldn't worry about the quality of the inmotion stuff. I weigh 183lbs and ride an inmotion v8. So the idea of the v8f sounds solid to me although I thought long and hard about the v10f. I wouldn't over think it too much  It comes with protective cover and wrist guards (if u buy from ewheels)which are great for learning, as well as peice of mind that if something goes wrong ewheels gots your back. Not so much for ebay. So for first wheel go ewheels! it's worth the bit extra. And if your comfortable with the risk shop around on the second. 

 

[mrelwood]

Sorry @raiden00, I skipped your post earlier!

Your history might point to preferring a larger and faster wheel, but your young kid, being risk adverse, and the general tone in your post makes me think that a lighter and more compact wheel might be slightly more useful for you right now, since they are perfectly ok for peaceful cruising.

Tesla, 16S, and V8F is the power trio I’d put at the top of your lists. It is likely that a new KingSong model later this year would even top the trio, but it can take 6 months or more to hit the markets.

The Tesla is a lot more powerful and faster, and offers the most stable ride of the three. V8F is lightest and has a lot smaller battery, but has the same 35km/h top speed than the 16S.

Any of them will surely serve you loads of fun for months, maybe even years.

[raiden00]

Thanks @mrelwood!

 

I think you are right. Because I live in a hills area and I'm not light, I think I've discarded the V8f due to lack of power. 

 

So at this point it's between the V10, the 16s and the Tesla. 

 

The price for the V10 is very tempting, and apparently it's a very well built wheel that is very comfy with nice features and high pedal clearance (and comes with a cover). However, the size looks too big to carry on a bus (though it's the slimmest?). Also, I hear that throttling is pretty bad specially for the V10 that has the small battery. How’s the hill climbing ability of this wheel? There’s a famous video where the wheel overheats all the time but I think this was before the firmware upgrade (I don’t know if this is any better) and it was probably too steep and long of a hill. My OneWheel+ can conquer the hills around my house, but just barely and extremely slowly. I'd want to change to something a bit better. Since it's the best value of the 3 options, and it's the best built I would probably get this one if it wasn't because I'm worried about the size. 

 

The Tesla is a bit expensive for my budget, but power looks great (it'd be way more than I need for a long time, including the hills in my area). What I don't like is that it is apparently very easy to crack the shell, and people say it's uncomfortable on the shins. I like that the size is great and it's very silent. However I hear that Gotways do not tiltback and you can fry the board if you demand too much current? (No fuses, really??). Apparently the startup sound is obnoxious though I don't imagine this being a deciding factor. 

 

The 16s looks like a great option, with prefect size and weight, and much better power compared to V8/f. It also has rear lights which is a nice touch. Apparently, the trolley is great and it’s hard to crack the shell (so good for beginners). I heard that the motor noise is loud and pretty annoying (is that a big problem?). It’s the slowest though 22mph seems good enough for me at this point. Not sure how good this will be for the hills. It's also the older model of these three I think. Also, the fact that the Tesla is just 100 USD more being much more powerful is unnerving. But the Tesla is not better in every aspect: lower quality in general, worse trolley, significantly more uncomfortable, no rear light, etc. 

 

In general, are any of these three options good enough for moderate hills? Most of the riding would be in flat roads, but there would be some important short hills in the beginning/end of my commute. 

 

Thanks for the awesome comments everyone. 

[MBIKER_SURFER]

No problems on climbing 'normal' hills. But the V10 F also weighs about 23 kg. Much better is  the Nikola 84 V - with less bugs in the firmware! And much more mileage per load of the battery.

[Mike Sacristan]

2 hours ago, raiden00 said:

Thanks @mrelwood!

 

I think you are right. Because I live in a hills area and I'm not light, I think I've discarded the V8f due to lack of power. 

 

So at this point it's between the V10, the 16s and the Tesla. 

 

The price for the V10 is very tempting, and apparently it's a very well built wheel that is very comfy with nice features and high pedal clearance (and comes with a cover). However, the size looks too big to carry on a bus (though it's the slimmest?). Also, I hear that throttling is pretty bad specially for the V10 that has the small battery. How’s the hill climbing ability of this wheel? There’s a famous video where the wheel overheats all the time but I think this was before the firmware upgrade (I don’t know if this is any better) and it was probably too steep and long of a hill. My OneWheel+ can conquer the hills around my house, but just barely and extremely slowly. I'd want to change to something a bit better. Since it's the best value of the 3 options, and it's the best built I would probably get this one if it wasn't because I'm worried about the size. 

 

The Tesla is a bit expensive for my budget, but power looks great (it'd be way more than I need for a long time, including the hills in my area). What I don't like is that it is apparently very easy to crack the shell, and people say it's uncomfortable on the shins. I like that the size is great and it's very silent. However I hear that Gotways do not tiltback and you can fry the board if you demand too much current? (No fuses, really??). Apparently the startup sound is obnoxious though I don't imagine this being a deciding factor. 

 

The 16s looks like a great option, with prefect size and weight, and much better power compared to V8/f. It also has rear lights which is a nice touch. Apparently, the trolley is great and it’s hard to crack the shell (so good for beginners). I heard that the motor noise is loud and pretty annoying (is that a big problem?). It’s the slowest though 22mph seems good enough for me at this point. Not sure how good this will be for the hills. It's also the older model of these three I think. Also, the fact that the Tesla is just 100 USD more being much more powerful is unnerving. But the Tesla is not better in every aspect: lower quality in general, worse trolley, significantly more uncomfortable, no rear light, etc. 

 

In general, are any of these three options good enough for moderate hills? Most of the riding would be in flat roads, but there would be some important short hills in the beginning/end of my commute. 

 

Thanks for the awesome comments everyone. 

Even my Ninebot One E+ will outclimb a Onewheel+ XR.

The Tesla is not easy to crack. My friend has dropped her Tesla plenty of times and we have even crashed it a few times at a skate park.
Gotway allows you turn the tilt-back off and by default it is on. You would faceplant before you fried the wheel.

Comfort: V10 by a huge margin
Speed: Tesla
Climbing: V10 because of the pedal clearance
Zippiness: Tesla
Off-road: V10
Quiet motor: Tesla/V10 pretty much the same

Both the V10 and the Tesla are proven wheels meaning I would buy them from the cheapest supplier (AliExpress).
The Tesla will let you ride above 40kmh for the first half of the battery. Then it will turn into a V10.

The side lights on the Tesla can be seen from behind and can be set to red only. Then they will rotate until you brake at which point they will stop flashing and just shine red. This is compliant enough imo.

I would never buy a V10 because I would always regret not buying the V10F.

 

[Mike Sacristan]

Oh yeah almost forgot.. size comparison. 75 seconds in (timestamp embedded in URL)

 

Petra has zero complaints about the trolley handle:

 

Me crashing the hell out of her Tesla. Had to snap the side panel back into place. Has never moved since.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

All three (V10/V10F, Tesla, 16S) will easily climb any hills you throw at them. They're a all power level above the V8(F) due to the battery (double the peak current of the V8/V8F) and matching motors. They're pretty much as good as it gets, I would say. Worst case, you get overheating beeps/tiltback and must stop.

Here's a fun-to-read post about a new rider's experience. Maybe it helps. I read it before I realized it isn't even in this thread, but I think it fits.

Also:

Maybe you can plan ahead a little. Can you see yourself staying with the wheel you buy now? Or do you expect to buy another 1600+Wh "big" wheel soon-ish, for the long range tours and extreme power? How would that be work out financially?

So essentially the question might be: either you invest a bit more (Tesla or V10F) and stay with this wheel for longer, or you try to limit your costs now (which makes sense) and get a lighter/ cheaper/smaller commuter wheel now (V10), and then later comes a bigger wheel.

Maybe this can also help with the decision 16S vs. Tesla ("only $100 more!") or V10 vs. V10F ("but why buy a V10 if it could be the V10F at the same weight!"). Sure, you can always look to some upgrade, but you have to stop somewhere anyways. I'm sure the 16X or Nikola or MSX or 18XL are great commuters, too

As far as I see it:

• 16S/Tesla: Lighter and smaller, great form factor for commuting.
• V10(F): Bigger and heavier, but does that actually matter in the end? And it just looks so nice, has a comfy tire, and the V10 price is pretty great in comparison. Maybe you should just get one, it even comes with a beginner-friendly cover.

You can't really make a wrong choice, even if you get a V8F or even V8 (though the extra $$$ for the V10 really are worth it unless you have a weight problem with it). In the end, you can do pretty much everything with every one of these three (and pretty much every modern wheel in general).

Hope this helps. Also, again, simply trust your intuition if it comes down to that. "I just like this one better" is an excellent reason to choose a wheel, because your intuition includes all the subconscious things you may be unaware of (ergonomics, ...) that also matter.

(The 16S has a whine and it would be nice if it didn't, but in the end, you very quickly forget about it. Many people, me included, were worried about this before buying a wheel, but it turns out to be no big deal at all. V10(F) and Tesla are whine-free anyways.)

Edited January 2, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[mrelwood]

 

7 hours ago, raiden00 said:

There’s a famous video where the wheel overheats all the time but I think this was before the firmware upgrade (I don’t know if this is any better) and it was probably too steep and long of a hill.

V10 does overheat earlier than other wheels, but to make it overheat the hill must still be very steep for a few hundred yards, or medium steepness and very long. Some swedish guy has a YT video where he has to climb a moderately steep (~500m long?) hill something like 8 times in a row to get the V10F to overheat. To my knowledge the behaviour hasn’t been changed by a firmware update, but to have a few hills around your house will absolutely not be an issue. Just don’t start riding downhill with a full battery on any wheel, as the braking might cause a battery overvoltage.

7 hours ago, raiden00 said:

people say it's uncomfortable on the shins.

While the sidepads on the Tesla might be uncomfortable, a little DIY should solve that. I find the 16S ergonomics lacking as well, since the leg contact point is low enough that it hurts my leg whenever I mount. The V10 is indeed in a class of it’s own here, but it’s still just one aspect in a list of many.

7 hours ago, raiden00 said:

I hear that Gotways do not tiltback and you can fry the board if you demand too much current?

You can set the tilt-back to a speed that suits your personal safety level. It doesn’t lower with the battery level though like others do, so you have to control your urges yourself as the battery gets lower.

I have fried my MSX on a steep hill. To put things into perspective, the hill was steep enough that I think I would’ve crawled it up instead of walking. It was the steepest incline I’ve ever ridden for longer than two metres and I laughed hysterically since I couldn’t believe I was able to ride it at all. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without my XXXXL pedals and if I didn’t have a few years of serious off-roading under my belt. Still, the MSX carried my 100kgs 150 metres down and 140 metres up.

You are not going to fry any of these wheels unless you decide in a few years that ”this is really stupid... but I’m gonna do it anyway!”

7 hours ago, raiden00 said:

I heard that the motor noise is loud and pretty annoying

It was just a bit too loud for me since I like to ride in perfect silence in the woods, so I did use a dampening mass in the wheel well, which helped enough. For urban riding, not an issue unless you have hyperacusia or are otherwise very sensitive to sounds.

7 hours ago, raiden00 said:

significantly more uncomfortable

I don’t think the difference between Tesla and 16S is that huge. Noticeable yes, but I would choose the Tesla for myself in a heartbeat, and just DIY the sidepads to my liking.

7 hours ago, MBIKER_SURFER said:

the V10 F also weighs about 23 kg.

Inmotion website says 20.4kg. 

7 hours ago, MBIKER_SURFER said:

Much better is  the Nikola 84 V

It feels even bigger than the V10 though. And doesn’t it weigh 24kg?

[AtlasP]

Before the V10 price cuts and with its original cells, I would've said KS16S. With the current V10 price and now-upgraded cells, I say V10 all the way.

(Be careful that many commenters even today let alone in any old threads don't or wouldn't have know(n) about the silently-updated cells in the V10 or how the price landscape has changed, because these facts change things pretty dramatically. A 2000-watt motor with a 16x2.5" tire, easily capable of sustaining low-to-mid-20s mph, now 750Wh battery, extra large cushy pedals, etc, for only $1200? That's a really good deal compared to what that same money would've gotten you a couple years ago.)

Edit: still think the V10/V10F is a solid offering for a learner for those who want a little more or are a little heavier than for the V8/V8F, but the above regarding battery size and price cuts are no longer true/as extreme at the time of original comment.

Edited May 5, 2021 by AtlasP

[lubokkanev]

On 12/31/2019 at 4:39 PM, Rehab1 said:

The MCM5 does include an incorporated trolley handle but what is missing is a full pass  through open handle design when the trolley handle is in the stowed position. 
 

 

It wasn't too hard to make a hole in the shell on the other side and make it pass through

Edited April 22, 2021 by amomymous

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE