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raiden00

V8f vs V10 as a first wheel

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Hi everyone!

Thinking about getting my first wheel, and I'm not sure what to choose. 

I'm about 6' <180lbs. I'd like to spend about 1000 USD. I don't need a lot of speed (I think I'll very rarely hit 20mph), but I really want safety. I own a OneWheel+ and really want something that is extremely hard to cut out under reasonable riding (I nosedived with my OW at about 10mph due to motor cutoff caused by bump in the sidewalk...). 

The upcoming V8f looks great as a first wheel due to how portable it looks. I may take the wheel with me in the work shuttle commute a few times a month and would like to keep the wheel in the bus seat with me. Also, I may have to carry the wheel a significant flight of stairs when taking the subway a few times a week. However I'm a bit worried about the V8f's power due to my weight and the hills in SF, where I live. But then again, I don't plan on going fast. 

The other option that looks great at a similar price is the V10 (about 100USD more with the current ewheels promo). I like that the V10 is much more powerful, so it seems safer than the V8f. However, it seems way bigger/heavier, so taking it on the shuttle and up the subway stairs may be way harder. Also, I hear that the V8f will be more maneuverable and can brake faster.  

Thoughts? Thanks! Really looking forward to my first EUC!

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With the hills and your weight the V8 is a little low on battery power. The KS16S is the same physical size as the V8 with quite a bit more power. KingSong is a great option. ( less show more go) 

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57 minutes ago, raiden00 said:

I'd like to spend about 1000 USD.

Everyone says that (I did) before they get a wheel, because that's already a lot of money for an unproven thing and seems like a reasonable upper limit. But very likely it will make sense to spend more (if you can), up to around $1500.

58 minutes ago, raiden00 said:

I don't need a lot of speed (I think I'll very rarely hit 20mph)

Everyone says that (I did... with 25kph = 16mph instead of 30kph = 20mph like you) before they get a wheel. Experience shows that 90+% of people will very quickly get frustrated with such a speed limitation and want to upgrade after a week or two. That's typical for V8 buyers. 30kph/20mph is just not enough for the vast majority of riders.

59 minutes ago, raiden00 said:

but I really want safety

Honestly, for that you want a bigger battery than the 2p battery of the V8(F).

-

So you can buy a "specialty" wheel that is light and easy to carry but lacks in all other aspects (the V8F), or you can buy a general purpose wheel that is chosen for riding first and does that perfectly, and you deal with the carrying as well as you can. You need to decide what counts for you in the end. Carrying a heavy wheel is annoying while the V8(F) is a joy to lug around, so if you get annoyed every day, that isn't ideal too.

My recommendation is to buy a wheel for how it rides first. Options that come to mind:

  • V10F or V10 - since they weigh the same, I strongly suggest going for the V10F for the added range (and even a bit of speed). But they are indeed a bit big and heavy. Has a really nice wider and comfortable tire.
  • Gotway Tesla - less weight and size, trolley handle, and it's fast and powerful.
  • Kingsong 16S - about the same weight and size as the Tesla, just slower, but with the best form factor (handle and overall size/shape).
  • Also don't rule out a bigger wheel like a 18L. For commuting, a big nice cushy comfortable forgiving tire isn't the worst (the V10(F) is in between). Consider it.
  • The MCM5 is like a smaller Tesla. The smaller tire limits the practical speed you want to ride it, but it is fast and a popular commuter option for a reason, and it's even smaller and lighter than the Tesla.

I'd go for the Tesla because it's lighter than the V10(F) and faster/stronger/safer (same thing) than the 16S*. Or the V10(F) if it's tire appeals to you more (but it is big and heavy). Or maybe an MCM5?

* [The 16S 35kph limit falls with battery charge and gives you a hard scary tiltback when you reach it. So realistically the 16S is a 30kph or below wheel most of the time, which might just turn out to be a few kph too slow. The Tesla completely eliminates that problem.]

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You end up upgrading really fast, so maybe look for second hand Kingsong, GW or Inmotion for learning. 

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I'm not so sure on the speed thing.

I'm about 400km into my first wheel & find going 18-28km/h (more typically 25km/h) is waaaay more than fast enough for me. 

 

Edited by /Dev/Null

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7 hours ago, /Dev/Null said:

I'm not so sure on the speed thing.

I'm about 400km into my first wheel & find going 18-28km/h (more typically 25km/h) is waaaay more than fast enough for me.

How were your speeds at 50km ridden? ;)

My first wheel had a top speed of 27km/h. It took me a good while to be able to even reach it (could’ve been at around 400km). Second wheel, 35km/h. I was certain that I’d never go that fast. Third, MSX. I was absolutely sure that 40km/h would be my top speed until I die.

Guess what... it wasn’t. :lol: It does take time and of course a suitable wheel, but it is very common that one’s riding speeds will increase closer to 40km/h or above.

Edited by mrelwood

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8 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

How were your speeds at 50km ridden? ;)

My first wheel had a top speed of 27km/h. It took me a good while to be able to even reach it (could’ve been at around 400km). Second wheel, 35km/h. I was certain that I’d never go that fast. Third, MSX. I was absolutely sure that 40km/h would be my top speed until I die.

Guess what... it wasn’t. :lol: It does take time and of course a suitable wheel, but it is very common that one’s riding speeds will increase closer to 40km/h or above.

I've never been  at 50km/h on a wheel.  I have a hard limit on my inmotion app where I only recently raised it to 32km/h tiltback recently & I think the first 200km wasn't above 25km/h.  To be fair, my rides aren't in any time sensitive fashion where I'm trying to get somewhere, but rather mostly cruises and some light offroad rides.

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22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Experience shows that 90+% of people will very quickly get frustrated with such a speed limitation and want to upgrade after a week or two.

Or only the frustrated ones get back to the forum to express their frustration while the others just enjoy their wheel and don't show up here to complain (why would they). EDIT: that seems much more likely than that 90% want to update their wheel after two weeks of ownership.

Edited by Mono

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Just now, Mono said:

Or only the frustrated ones get back to the forum to express their frustration while the others just enjoy their wheel and don't show up here to complain (why would they).

Believe it or not I have been focusing on that concept recently. What wheels do the quite people like? ........

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4 hours ago, /Dev/Null said:

I've never been  at 50km/h on a wheel.

I meant how fast were you riding when you had only ridden for 50 kilometers in total. Or 100km. Your reply supports my beliefs, as your speeds have been rising as well. Once the top speed of the wheel is reached on every ride, the itch for a new, faster wheel starts to develop. It may be slow, but it’s there!

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On 12/28/2019 at 4:52 PM, raiden00 said:

Hi everyone!

Thinking about getting my first wheel, and I'm not sure what to choose. 

I'm about 6' <180lbs. I'd like to spend about 1000 USD. I don't need a lot of speed (I think I'll very rarely hit 20mph), but I really want safety. I own a OneWheel+ and really want something that is extremely hard to cut out under reasonable riding (I nosedived with my OW at about 10mph due to motor cutoff caused by bump in the sidewalk...). 

The upcoming V8f looks great as a first wheel due to how portable it looks. I may take the wheel with me in the work shuttle commute a few times a month and would like to keep the wheel in the bus seat with me. Also, I may have to carry the wheel a significant flight of stairs when taking the subway a few times a week. However I'm a bit worried about the V8f's power due to my weight and the hills in SF, where I live. But then again, I don't plan on going fast. 

The other option that looks great at a similar price is the V10 (about 100USD more with the current ewheels promo). I like that the V10 is much more powerful, so it seems safer than the V8f. However, it seems way bigger/heavier, so taking it on the shuttle and up the subway stairs may be way harder. Also, I hear that the V8f will be more maneuverable and can brake faster.  

Thoughts? Thanks! Really looking forward to my first EUC!

You might consider a scooter ... it will cost less and is much safer. You can also still ride it even with a flat battery. EUCs are great, but scooters are also a lot of fun and you won't need to chase after it if you fall off. Just a thought. I have both.

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Hey Raiden;

I got a V10 as my first wheel. Figured it would survive my learning process and the range it has was enough to get to work and back. I thought it would be everything I would ever need. Needless to say; I was wrong.

The V10 is a solid machine. It is well built (better then my Kingsong 16x). But it has a design flaw (in my opinion). The bracket that attaches the pedals to the axle dictates the angle of the foot pedals. When the unit hits the ground, that bracket is the part that scrapes after the pedal flips up. Once a certain amount of material gets scraped off, the pedal on that side will start drooping. Since this was my learning wheel it hit the ground a lot and even though the rest of the unit survived amazingly well (I used the official protective cover) I do have a drooping pedal on one side I need to repair now.

The main problem I did not foresee is how damn fun riding a EUC is. So I found myself riding a lot more often then just to work and back. The range on the V10 quickly became a drawback for me. FYI the normal V10 will only do about 25km on a full charge doing 30-35km/h most of the time. The V8F will do less.

Speed also became an issue. When riding in full protective gear (motorcycle helmet/jacket/shoes and knee/wrist pads) I hit 40 all the time on the Inmotion without even trying or feeling as if I'm in any sort of danger. It does it effortlessly but you might still want that magical 50km/h after a while, simply to be able to keep up with car traffic when you don't have access to a nice cycle lane.

To sum things up; in my humble opinion and like many others here stated, you should get a cheap used or low end EUC to trash and learn on. Then get a nice high end machine to keep and enjoy (KS16X, Nicola, MsX). I think you will outgrow the V8 and even a V10 very quickly and will be left wanting.

Edited by Skecys

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7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I meant how fast were you riding when you had only ridden for 50 kilometers in total. Or 100km. Your reply supports my beliefs, as your speeds have been rising as well. Once the top speed of the wheel is reached on every ride, the itch for a new, faster wheel starts to develop. It may be slow, but it’s there!

When first starting I think I had max at 20, raised it to 25 after maybe 100km (or when the inmotion lockout expired) and went to 30 for a while and now am at 32.... Don't see any reason to go faster than that.

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Thanks everyone for the detailed anwers. 

This is a lot of awesome info.

 

Honestly, not sure what to do. Skecys comments about the V10 getting damaged are concerning, as it really seems like a good option at the current price of $1150. However, Im worried that the size may be a big issue when taking the shuttle or the train. 

Another think I didn't mention is that I need to be able to walk pushing the wheel one handed for max 5-10 min about two days a week, since I need to carry my 1 year old in the stroller to the nearby daycare before I continue my commute to work 😃. Is the V10 too big for that? By the way, this an the fun factor is why I don't want to get a scooter. 

From the comments here and what I've read, it sounds like the 16s is not a good value (not powerful enough for the price). 

I hadn't thought about the MCM5 but, honestly, it sounds like an awesome option. A bit worried about the 14in size, but again, I don't really think I'll be going fast anyway. One question that I have is, where would you buy this wheel in the US? I was keen on doing ewheels, but the eBay price for a new one is almost 400 USD cheaper (1000 vs 1350). That seems too big of a difference. 

The Tesla looks good, but then again I think it's out of my price range for now. 

One more thing, with CES happening next week, do we expect new wheels coming out? Are there rumors of things I should be  waiting for?

 

Thanks! This community is great. 

 

 

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On 12/28/2019 at 11:44 PM, mrelwood said:

Unless... I’d like to try something! If you’re up to it, please answer: What kind of a bicycle rider you are? Do you ski/skate/hike? Do you have family at home? What do you do for living? Is your calendar often full?

Sure!

I haven't biked for years. I own a OneWheel+. I love it and ride it on the weekends but I definitely don't trust it for commuting due to lack of power/nosedives. 

I’m in my early 30s, engineer, and have been a martial artist and soccer player most of my life. I've a 1 year old, which means that I really don't have time for much these days. Even though I really like sports and have practiced them all my life I'm fairly risk adverse. I envision taking it slow with the EUC: get familiar with it I open areas, commute via wide sidewalks and then, only when/if I'm comfortable, in the bike lane. I would also ride it on the weekends in Golden Gate Park where we have huge smooth roads with no cars. 

A colleague has a V8 that he uses for commuting and convinced me to look into EUCs:

  • Safer than OneWheel due to additional power and warnings before cutoff
  • Bigger diameter than electric skateboard wheels means potholes are less worrisome
  • Portable: you can push them with the handle when you walk with someone, do groceries etc. Also, you can take them with you in the bus/train depending on the size.

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11 hours ago, raiden00 said:

Another think I didn't mention is that I need to be able to walk pushing the wheel one handed for max 5-10 min about two days a week, since I need to carry my 1 year old in the stroller to the nearby daycare before I continue my commute to work 😃.

You know you can easily push a stroller while riding a EUC? That would be the natural thing to do. No need to walk:)

(And I simply want to mention, even though I'm sure you would never do it: Never carry the baby while riding a EUC. A fundamentally instable device like this should never ever be used to carry any living thing (baby, dog, ...) unless you are ok with using that thing as an airbag if anything happens or fails.)

11 hours ago, raiden00 said:

From the comments here and what I've read, it sounds like the 16s is not a good value (not powerful enough for the price). 

The 16S isn't that bad! Sure, for "only 100$ more" you can get a Tesla which is a notable improvement in various aspects. But you can always play the "only $100 more" game until you end up buying a high-end wheel. Given the prices (didn't look at these before... I forgot how expensive EUCs are:cry2:), it is absolutely a viable option. Just as viable as the others.

  • V8F $1100 - I think it's a bit overpriced for the small battery, should be <$1000
  • V10 $1200 (1150?) - Nice price! Don't worry about damage, in the worst case you get a few replacement parts.
  • 16S $1350 - A bit too expensive.
  • MCM5 $1350 - Why is that so expensive?!
  • Tesla $1450 - $100 less and this would be a no-brainer...

TLDR everything should just be $100 less;) Only looking at prices, the V10 looks like the best bang for the buck (if it only were a little lighter/smaller). I still think the Tesla is the best "investment" if you know what I mean (barring long range tours, it does everything). But maybe it's too close to a full performance wheel (16X, Nikola, 18XL, MSX) already, or you just don't want to spend that right now. That is a totally valid consideration.

Honestly, no choice of these would be "wrong". You're only considering which might be the best choice for you.

Also trust your gut feeling which wheel feels the right buy for you. Looks, whatever - trust your intuition. So if a certain wheel is on your mind, whispering a sweet "Buy me!" to you... go for that.

11 hours ago, raiden00 said:

I hadn't thought about the MCM5 but, honestly, it sounds like an awesome option. A bit worried about the 14in size, but again, I don't really think I'll be going fast anyway. One question that I have is, where would you buy this wheel in the US? I was keen on doing ewheels, but the eBay price for a new one is almost 400 USD cheaper (1000 vs 1350). That seems too big of a difference. 

There are various versions of the MCM5. The ewheels price is for the 800Wh 84V. Are the ebay prices, too? If yes, it would be worth it to buy from ebay. $1000 sounds much nicer for this wheel than $1350 which I find a hard sell.

11 hours ago, raiden00 said:

One more thing, with CES happening next week, do we expect new wheels coming out? Are there rumors of things I should be  waiting for?

Extremely unlikely. The Chinese manufacturers don't care about something like CES.

The next rumored wheel is a Gotway lighter commuter wheel/Tesla successor, kind of the thing you are looking for. Not sure when they will show it. February maybe? If you can wait that long (however long it takes)... and I expect it to be pricier than the options here.

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11 hours ago, raiden00 said:

A colleague has a V8 that he uses for commuting

How does V8 fare on steep SF roads? That 2p battery configuration is not confidence inspiring... I think it needs to be at least 4p for steep grades, as battery current can easily be 50A, so for 2p that's 25A through each cell... sketchy!

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On 12/28/2019 at 8:52 AM, raiden00 said:

I don't need a lot of speed (I think I'll very rarely hit 20mph), but I really want safety.

It's paradoxical, but if you really want safety, but don't need a lot of speed, you need to buy one of the fast wheels out there. This is because the maximum thrust falls off linearly with speed, so the higher the wheel's spinoff speed, the shallower the angle of the thrust vs speed line is, which means that at a fixed speed (20mph) the max thrust is higher for speedier wheel, giving you the higher thrust margin against expected and unexpected additional loads (potholes, speed bumps, steep SF inclines).

This is very different from, say, e-scooters, where if you don't want more than 20mph, you just buy a scooter with 20mph max speed and push the throttle all the way. With segwheels, we can't "push the throttle 100%".

Edited by Aneta

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18 hours ago, raiden00 said:

Skecys comments about the V10 getting damaged are concerning,

The V10 pedals have been a bit problematic, since the structure gives in too easily, and develops cracks and denting that also make the pedals droop. But every wheel has it’s quirks and downsides, this is the main one for the V10/V10F.

By the way, be sure to differentiate the two models, V10 and V10F, since they should be in different price ranges as well.

18 hours ago, raiden00 said:

Im worried that the size may be a big issue when taking the shuttle or the train. 

Smaller wheels would be more comfortable to travel with, but I would’t put too much weight on this, unless it is something you’d do a lot every day.

18 hours ago, raiden00 said:

Another think I didn't mention is that I need to be able to walk pushing the wheel one handed for max 5-10 min about two days a week, since I need to carry my 1 year old in the stroller

I don’t think the size of the wheel is nearly the issue that an unpractical trolley handle would be. Do NOT get the MSX for this purpose! :wacko: Any Kingsong wheel is great to trolley around, because the handle is balanced at the center of the wheel. The V10/V10F scorpion style handle is not too bad though.

18 hours ago, raiden00 said:

I hadn't thought about the MCM5 but, honestly, it sounds like an awesome option.

I think the MCM5 doesn’t have a trolley handle at all, so unfortunately you’d have to install an after market one.

18 hours ago, raiden00 said:

the eBay price for a new one is almost 400 USD cheaper (1000 vs 1350).

Unfortunately that’s just how it is. You may also still find locally sold, ancient, horribly low powered wheels for a price that would’ve been too much even when the wheel was new several EUC generations ago. Anyway, that is the reason why many of us buy directly from Aliexpress and take a risk with the warranty.

 

18 hours ago, raiden00 said:

The Tesla looks good, but then again I think it's out of my price range for now. 

I still wouldn’t mark it off just yet, as it does have a lot going for it.

18 hours ago, raiden00 said:

One more thing, with CES happening next week, do we expect new wheels coming out?

Actually we do! Inmotion hinted that the becoming V12 might be revealed at their CES booth! But being a top end 18” wheel it’s not one that would have a spot in your lists.

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I think the MCM5 doesn’t have a trolley handle at all, so unfortunately you’d have to install an after market one

It comes with a trolley handle stock actually. It fits flush to the shell, so when it’s not extended it’s very easy to miss just going on pictures alone.

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Actually we do! Inmotion hinted that the becoming V12 might be revealed at their CES booth!

Exciting news! What’s the best way to stay on top of the rumor mill? I’m holding off on buying a Tesla for as long as I can cause I hear there’s probably some announcements coming up in the next couple months, but I have no idea where to check for news. 

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I got a V10 as my first wheel about 5/6 months ago and love it, pedals are a little scratched from when i was learning but it's held up great from been banged around and dropped, i regularly use mine for supermarket/shop runs and don't find it to heavy and have no problem wheeling it around the shops,  top speed is sufficient for me, im certainly not a speed demon i believe 25mph is fast enough on any wheel i do think id eventually like more range as i advance but as a starter wheel it's been great

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9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I think the MCM5 doesn’t have a trolley handle at all, so unfortunately you’d have to install an after market one.

The MCM5 does include an incorporated trolley handle but what is missing is a full pass  through open handle design when the trolley handle is in the stowed position. 
 

49304339763_2b2ee94948_n.jpg

 

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21 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The V10 pedals have been a bit problematic, since the structure gives in too easily, and develops cracks and denting that also make the pedals droop.

I thought Inmotion updated their pedals to fix this?

21 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Actually we do! Inmotion hinted that the becoming V12 might be revealed at their CES booth!

Woot really?:dribble:That's a first!

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