Popular Post Marty Backe Posted December 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2019 During today's group ride the five of us were entering the Azusa River Wilderness Park As we were preceding down the trail (as seen above) we passed a security truck parked on the side, and the guy jumped out and told us, "those aren't allowed here, you have to leave". No use arguing with this guy, that was for sure. So we back tracked to the entrance and were met by a woman from the "office". The guy in the truck obviously called ahead. We had time so we decided to debate the issue with her and see where it went. I asked her if bicycles were allowed and she said yes, but "no electronic or motorized vehicles of any type are allowed". I then, very politely, told her that California had passed AB604 in 2016 that allowed our wheels to go anywhere a bicycle is unless specifically stated otherwise. She said she would talk to the rangers in charge, and proceeded to telephone the main office. We could hear them talking and about 5-minutes later I heard what I never thought I'd hear. "OK, you are allowed on the trail". Our argument actually worked! I'm still amazed as I type this. We got back on our wheels and traveled the trail again. Here we are at the end of the trail, celebrating our victory From left: @Dzlchef, me, Daniel, @Dave U, and @Freewheeler P.s. We almost were not allowed back on the trail because Chris had been vaping, and apparently that's one step removed from child abuse in California. Chris couldn't even have his vaper on his person - they thought that he might use it when they couldn't see us. He had to place it behind a trash bin. I'm really not exaggerating the negative reaction that this state employee had towards vaping. Fortunately Chris was able to get his fix at another less patrolled park 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aneta Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Good job setting a precedent! Now we can just say to rangers in this park, "Remember the cape dude?" Is there a list somewhere on this forum or elsewhere of state-specific laws? I was visiting Colorado a few months ago and was stopped by a sheriff in Snowmass Village and he told me, one can't ride any motorized vehicle on bike trails, nor on the road (!). (he stopped me on the road) When asked about Aspen or the whole Colorado, he didn't know of any law, but specifically in Snowmass it's prohibited. He said they are actually giving tickets for that. (but didn't give me one, he appeciated how I made every effort to be protected (gear) and visible (vest, flashlights)) In Aspen, police saw me many times, never stopped me. Go figure. Edited December 18, 2019 by Aneta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 well @Marty Backe if you were not allowed back, how would they maintain the trails from over growing ? It is much easier to let you ride them back and forth on you wheels right ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Good job Marty. A similar law was passed in Florida this year. On another note, It’s amazing how the government can pick something and demonize it. The media follows in lock step never really investigating it at all. They must be losing too much tax revenue from people who have switched from cigarettes. It’s money related some how. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted December 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I then, very politely, told her that California had passed AB604 in 2016 that allowed our wheels to go anywhere a bicycle is unless specifically stated otherwise. Excellent diplomatic skills Marty! You set the tone and demonstrated that you and the others were respectful while also being educated about the current laws. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 45 minutes ago, Joker10 said: Good job Marty. A similar law was passed in Florida this year. On another note, It’s amazing how the government can pick something and demonize it. The media follows in lock step never really investigating it at all. They must be losing too much tax revenue from people who have switched from cigarettes. It’s money related some how. Well this is a bit side tracking or a different trail if you like. But you have not seen tax until you have lived in Denmark. High incomes can get taxed up to 70% on their last $/high income. On top of that they have 150% new car registration tax and 25% vat on everything. Since I don't smoke I don't know what the tobacco tax is other than it is high. That said people get practical free health care and social security. I didn't mind paying the taxes. But I can't help smiling when people from us talk about taxes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Tucker Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 So many Nikola's! I think its 'bout time I get one too!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Brown Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Such a wonderful victory! Those are some harsh vaping regulations though... geez. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Scubadragonsan Posted December 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2019 I am tired of state/local bureaucrats ignorant of the very laws/regulations they are supposed to enforce. I was on Golden Gate Bridge one time and a patrol cop on bicycle told me that I can't ride my KS16S there because it is considered an e-scooter. According to Bill 604, 313.5. An “electrically motorized board” is any wheeled device that has a floorboard designed to be stood upon when riding that is not greater than 60 inches deep and 18 inches wide, is designed to transport only one person, and has an electric propulsion system averaging less than 1,000 watts, the maximum speed of which, when powered solely by a propulsion system on a paved level surface, is no more than 20 miles per hour. The device may be designed to also be powered by human propulsion. So why does the bridge has a sign at the entrance to prohibit use of e-scooters while bicycles are allowed? Anyone wants to join me going back to Golden Gate Bridge to challenge this ban of e-scooters or EUCs on the bridge 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
night_ombudsman Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 What about that 1000 watt bit? Doesn't that disqualify most current EUCs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, night_ombudsman said: What about that 1000 watt bit? Doesn't that disqualify most current EUCs? Yes, in a court of law. But in practice there is no means of determining the power of our EUCs so I don't think it's a worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Yes, in a court of law. But in practice there is no means of determining the power of our EUCs so I don't think it's a worry. Can't they just go to the product web page and read the specs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aneta Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Curious thought re: power. It must be mechanical power, not electrical, right? (because it's the mech power that potentially can hurt rider or others should you lose control). But our wheels are rated by electric power, so they are effectively much less powerful mechanically. And moving at slow speeds consumes very little power anyway, 200-300 watts only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Nic said: Can't they just go to the product web page and read the specs? In the world that I live in, no police officer is going to pull up a web browser and try and locate the specifications for a wheel, particularly when 99% of police officers have never seen an EUC. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 "unless specifically stated otherwise" - So how long do think it will be before they add a sentence specifically banning EUCs? Do you think the overall look of motorbike helmets with mirror visors that hide faces and body armour help integrate us with the public and officials? Especially on quiet country walks. I didn't understand their position on vaping though - it's sort of encouraged in the UK as a way of getting people off smoking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: In the world that I live in, no police officer is going to pull up a web browser and try and locate the specifications for a wheel, particularly when 99% of police officers have never seen an EUC. In a court of law they might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 26 minutes ago, Nic said: In a court of law they might. Not something I'm worried about where I live 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said: "unless specifically stated otherwise" - So how long do think it will be before they add a sentence specifically banning EUCs? Do you think the overall look of motorbike helmets with mirror visors that hide faces and body armour help integrate us with the public and officials? Especially on quiet country walks. I didn't understand their position on vaping though - it's sort of encouraged in the UK as a way of getting people off smoking. Cultures are different. In the United States, full-up gear is actually positive and will give you more points with the police, etc. I think there's a sense that you take safety seriously and will behave appropriately. "outlaws" are the people without the gear. So your statement rings hollow to American ears 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I can certainly understand your dress code when commuting in heavy traffic. Though dressed like that here in the UK would definitely give the impression that you're out to ride fast and annoy folk while aiming to scare people at the same time but I guess that's what makes every country different. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLEASE_DELETE Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Deleted. Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLEASE_DELETE Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Deleted. Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said: I'd argue while our taxes are "lower" (my combined fed/state/social/property/personal property/sales/etc is 50% or so), I have 0 to show for it (no free health care & the government tells me when I retire there won't be any money for me in the yearly newsletter)....so I'd argue you are better off. Isn't the point of having lower taxes so that you can decide what do do with your money and save/invest in the future so that you can pay for your own health care and retirement? I know you're exaggerating when you say "I have 0 to show for it", but it's just common sense that with lower taxes you'll get less "free stuff" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLEASE_DELETE Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Deleted. Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 14 hours ago, Unventor said: Well this is a bit side tracking or a different trail if you like. But you have not seen tax until you have lived in Denmark. High incomes can get taxed up to 70% on their last $/high income. On top of that they have 150% new car registration tax and 25% vat on everything. Since I don't smoke I don't know what the tobacco tax is other than it is high. That said people get practical free health care and social security. I didn't mind paying the taxes. But I can't help smiling when people from us talk about taxes. If I start getting taxed like that, I am going to quit working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TonyGrayCanada Posted December 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 19, 2019 Awesome diplomacy, you're the perfect ambassador for the community. Shows the value of keeping your cool and being polite. Credit to the park staff too though for listening and being willing to change their minds. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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