HELP, new 18XL cutting out.

[CGPro856]

I just got this new 18XL.  It's my first EUC so I am just trying to learn to balance and roll back and forth next to a wall.  

My problem is that several times so far as I am standing on the pedals rocking back and forth the wheel beeps twice and stops balancing.   I obviously fall off but then pick the wheel up and it resets normally and starts balancing again.  

The beeps are the same as if I picked it up by the trolley handle so I tried calibrating the trolley but the problem still happens.  

The other thing that has happened is that it will beep once and just stop balancing for a split second and then catch again. It's done that a couple of times but not as often as the two beeps and completely stopping the balance.  

It's intermittent so it's hard to tell for sure but it seems that maybe it doesn't happen if I don't turn the app on but that could also just be a coincidence.

Any ideas what's going on here?

Chris P.

[Chriull]

7 minutes ago, CGPro856 said:

My problem is that several times so far as I am standing on the pedals rocking back and forth the wheel beeps twice and stops balancing.   I obviously fall off but then pick the wheel up and it resets normally and starts balancing again.  

Rocking back and forth can be about one of the biggest burdens one can apply to an EUC.

KS have current limiting - so the beeping and afterwards cutting off could be the overcurrent alarm?

[CGPro856]

I hear what you're saying but I dont think that is it.  It happens even if I haven't gotten on the wheel. Just rocking the wheel back and forth slowly by hand and within 5 minutes of turning it on.  Yhe temps are still low and the app shows everything normal on the diagnostic page.  It is definitely not getting hot or experiencing any heavy load.  

[Chriull]

4 minutes ago, CGPro856 said:

I hear what you're saying but I dont think that is it.  It happens even if I haven't gotten on the wheel. Just rocking the wheel back and forth slowly by hand and within 5 minutes of turning it on.  Yhe temps are still low and the app shows everything normal on the diagnostic page.  It is definitely not getting hot or experiencing any heavy load.  

Yes - that sounds like a very different reason. Afaik handle/sensor problems should not be normal with KS by now?

You got in contact with your reseller?!

With a nice video showing the problem?

Unfortionately assambly mishaps happen.

I have no idea of the handle calibration - maybe there can be issues if this is not done right. I just heard from pedal tilt calibration that it's easy to "mess up" the wheel?!

Btw: Kingsong wheels are (somehow) locked for delivery? Did you unlock it?

[CGPro856]

Definitely unlocked. 

Email sent to ewheels.com. I'm sure Jason will respond but I figured I'd ask here while waiting for the west coast to wake up.  

I'll try later to get a video if needed.

I'll also post back here when I get an official answer.

CP

 

[TomOnWheels]

You should connect with app, disable trolley sensor and try again... If that works maybe you should recalibrate trolley sensor.

[CGPro856]

1 hour ago, TomOnWheels said:

You should connect with app, disable trolley sensor and try again... If that works maybe you should recalibrate trolley sensor.

I have recalibrated the sensor twice and it does seem to be functioning properly (except for the random cutouts).  It shuts off when I lift and reengages when I let go.  It wont shut off if I lift while the wheel is moving or if I jiggle the handle or just lift slightly. 

I will turn the lift sensor function off in the app when I get home this afternoon and see if the problem stops. 

[TomOnWheels]

21 hours ago, CGPro856 said:

I have recalibrated the sensor twice and it does seem to be functioning properly (except for the random cutouts).  It shuts off when I lift and reengages when I let go.  It wont shut off if I lift while the wheel is moving or if I jiggle the handle or just lift slightly. 

I will turn the lift sensor function off in the app when I get home this afternoon and see if the problem stops. 

Try to switch it off, it this works then you know where the issue is coming from. If it don't then I guess the only option will be to contact your seller and ask for repair or replacement of your KS.

[Meserias]

not a solution but worth to check and see....

1) please clean and then lightly grease trolley handle rails...
also lightly grease area where handle it's resting on the upper shell of your wheel

2) visually examine trolley handle where are some marks left by rubbing against the shell)

If the trolley rails wont go as down as possible it will keep the sensor in slight pressure activating the kill switch very easy

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Meserias

[seage]

Are you in a cold place? Ive had to turn off my sensor for the winter because its acting however the hecc it wasnts to act. Beeps and turns off all day. Im not sure if the lil chip at the bottom is damaged from the snow/moisture or extreme colds. But turning it off solved the problem for now. Gonna wait till spring to see if its a permanent issue

[CGPro856]

12 hours ago, seage said:

Are you in a cold place? Ive had to turn off my sensor for the winter because its acting however the hecc it wasnts to act. Beeps and turns off all day. Im not sure if the lil chip at the bottom is damaged from the snow/moisture or extreme colds. But turning it off solved the problem for now. Gonna wait till spring to see if its a permanent issue

I have only used it indoors so far so my issue is not temperature related and the wheel is brand new so it hasn't gotten wet yet either.    Turning the lift stop off has fixed the problem for now.  I have new switches on the way and will install them as soon as they arrive.  My next move will be moving outside to actually ride this thing.  Its cold here now too so hopefully the cold will not affect the new switches.  we'll see.

 

 

[CGPro856]

So, I installed a new switch on the left side and decided to give it a try before I open up the right side.  So far it seems fixed.  It's been on fo 20 minutes and no beeps.  

Hopefully I dont even have to open the other side.

Thanks for all the help!

Chris P.

[Mark Frey]

Mine also has the exact symptoms  although when riding it have never experienced the two quick beeps with the quick cut off and back on. Only when stationary ...It comes at random.  once sitting on it stationary it dipped and then realigned. I see it shake when leaning against something. I have seen it beep when laying on its side a few times. Just today I was standing on it talking to my brother and it did it again. It falls about halfway down in the time the two beeps come. And then recalibrated back upright. I bought it used but is still under warranty from ewheels. Was wondering how many cases of this are actually out there and has kingsong factory heard of this? And is it true it never occurs when moving. Am feeling a bit more cautious about this but have so far never experienced it happening when moving. The wheel is an amazing smooth solid wheel   Actually realized it is not connected with the wheel when motion since the trolly handle lift sensor cut off switch is deactivated when the wheel moves. I tried to lift it in rolling forward motion and is deactivated  so that is a great thing to know  cause it won’t happen when riding  ...only standstill  it is intermittent as though the lift sensor is too close and nearly touching

Also did realize a few times the lift sensor actually doesn’t turn wheel off when lifted  since it spins  so that might mean something like the one sensor is just kooky or something

But in general it does work right and turn it off with the two quick beeps when lifted. Except off and on will do the skits mode. It is a not too serious issue really since is not dangerous.                                                                            Also it seems the calibration is changing when it sits idle for awhile when on , since I have seen it slowly start dipping forward when it intermittently does the two beeps off and on. It seems I even noticed it slowly dipping forward on its own till it stops and remains off perhaps 3 -5 degree Forward..  it just always is slightly tipped forward even though I had calibrated it to level using the app calibration method. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Mark Frey
Mistake

[Mark Frey]

One other thing this wheel does that none of my other wheels do is when I turn it on I can hear the speaker make a sound like static at the very moment it turns on. I also hear a high pitch noise coming out of the radio speakers I have in my room. The radio is actually on but the volume is turned way down to almost nothing. At first I thought it was the unicycle but it wasn’t. When I move the euc to another room the high pitch constant wine is not coming out of the radio speakers anymore. I can still faintly hear it when wheel is somewhat away. It could be the Bluetooth thing but I removed my iPhone from the room so it didn’t say “Bluetooth connected” and still hear the high pitch faint wine when wheel is on. My gotway wheels don’t do that and also I have a few other KS wheels that don’t. Must be the motor frequency is in tune with bandwidth on radio 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Mark Frey
Redo

[CGPro856]

@Mark Frey the lift switch is apparently a fairly rare but not unknown issue.  Jason at ewheels.com has them in stock.  It's an easy fix with a couple screwdrivers and 20 minutes time.  The newest version uses a micro switch rather that a strain gauge so calibration does nothing btw.  

[Mark Frey]

Ok. Nice. I have seen this issue mentioned a few times now studying some 18xl threads. I see one guy was waiting at a red light and claimed it cut out. That thread was about some guy did a aggressive acceleration at 25 mph racing a car and face planted.  Am learning.              
         Not sure though why the wheel when resting at a 15 degree angle against a wall  slowly dips forward about 5 degrees and remains that way, then levels out again when I move it Upright slightly as if is awakened.  It is obviously normal although don’t recall my other wheels doing that.  I can feel it buzzing slightly as it levels. I just checked other wheels and this is only one. have a taller old 18a version and it doesn’t do that at all and neither gotway wheels do it at all but that’s ok since is a great wheel. Have a 16x even  and just got it and is amazing too but it seems to be rock  solid when idling leaning upright  against a wall. It is perhaps the way the hall sensors leveling thinge  is designed  

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Mark Frey
More talking

[CGPro856]

4 hours ago, Mark Frey said:

Ok. Nice. I have seen this issue mentioned a few times now studying some 18xl threads. I see one guy was waiting at a red light and claimed it cut out. That thread was about some guy did a aggressive acceleration at 25 mph racing a car and face planted.  Am learning.              
         Not sure though why the wheel when resting at a 15 degree angle against a wall  slowly dips forward about 5 degrees and remains that way, then levels out again when I move it Upright slightly as if is awakened.  It is obviously normal although don’t recall my other wheels doing that.  I can feel it buzzing slightly as it levels. I just checked other wheels and this is only one. have a taller old 18a version and it doesn’t do that at all and neither gotway wheels do it at all but that’s ok since is a great wheel. Have a 16x even  and just got it and is amazing too but it seems to be rock  solid when idling leaning upright  against a wall. It is perhaps the way the hall sensors leveling thinge  is designed  

 

 

 

 

I'm brand new to this so I have no other wheels to compare this to but I think what is happening is that your wheel is cutting out briefly when it does those beeps.  If it cuts out long enough it falls over but if it cuts out fo short enough time it starts to fall and then catches itself and comes back up to level.  

Before I fixed it mine would only cut out while not moving but would sometimes fall over and sometimes just twitch for a split second and then catch me.  If I leaned it against the wall it would sit there and beep randomly.  Since I fixed it it just sits there quiet and solid.  

Try turning the lift stop off in the app and see if yours stays solid against the wall without "sagging"

[Mono]

On 12/16/2019 at 8:44 AM, Mark Frey said:

Also did realize a few times the lift sensor actually doesn’t turn wheel off when lifted  since it spins  so that might mean something like the one sensor is just kooky or something

That's how I expect it to be and how it should be, because it is your insurance that the wheel will not switch off due to sensor input when you are riding it.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Mono

[Jason McNeil]

On 12/16/2019 at 3:44 AM, Mark Frey said:

Mine also has the exact symptoms  although when riding it have never experienced the two quick beeps with the quick cut off and back on. Only when stationary ...It comes at random.  once sitting on it stationary it dipped and then realigned. I see it shake when leaning against something. I have seen it beep when laying on its side a few times. Just today I was standing on it talking to my brother and it did it again. It falls about halfway down in the time the two beeps come.

Last year King Song added a 18L/18XL firmware 'feature' to try to prevent the motor from freezing up—this required the Wheel to be opened & disconnected from the power input to the controller. A byproduct of the change, is that occasionally the Wheel will do this random reset, if the controller thinks it's in this frozen/locked condition. When under rotation, firmware suppresses lift sensor input & this reset routine.  

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Jason McNeil

[Mark Frey]

6 hours ago, Mono said:

That's how I expect it to be and how it should be, because it is your insurance that the wheel will not switch off due to sensor input when you are riding it.

Ok think you misunderstood because I had the trolly handle lift switch “on”in the app and it should kill the motor when lifted but had the defective lift switch so didn’t work on that one occasion. A bit later was again working. If I had it switched off in the app it obviously wouldn’t be working either. The wheel was stationary though when I lifted it but faulty lift switch sensor didn’t allow cutoff. 
         The lift switch when working correctly disengages anyway and becomes inactive once the wheel begins to roll so that is the insurance it will never cut out. If you reach down and try to lift handle while riding it won’t kill wheel

[Mark Frey]

Thanks Jason for that info I had not known about and is very interesting but I see it is from 2018 July time period. Am hoping my 18xl witch was bought in March 2019 from ewheels is not effected with that bizarre type issue. 
      I was just going to email you to see if I can get some replacement trolly lift cutoff switches that are the upgraded kind.

     I did just buy this wheel around thanksgiving from euc forum used wheels page and Andrew had you ship label it actually from saint Lewis Mo. Is a good wheel though

[Mark Frey]

9 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

byproduct of the change, is that occasionally the Wheel will do this random reset, if the controller thinks it's in this frozen/locked condition. When under rotation, firmware suppresses lift sensor input & this reset routine  

      Not sure what the signs  of the “reset routine”  are.  The trollying  was the cause and lift sensors involved somehow.  I thought the lift sensors were a new thing this year but this was July 2018

this is not related to the slow tipping forward while idling ? Or the odd lift sensors?

   Ok well I should first read the entire esaj thread. Is 33 pages long

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Mark Frey
Not sure