RayBanMonster Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 On 12/11/2019 at 3:15 PM, John Middleton said: Thank you mrelwood. That is the best write up on the topic and I had done a lot of searches regarding EUC wobbles. Most things I had found indicated it was mostly rider induced and that the rider has to learn how to compensate. Luckily I have only had it real bad a few times and wasn't thrown and was able to slow down and regain control. I will try carving next time I get a moderate wobble to see how that helps. Heres my experimental observation on killing the wobbles 100% to succinctly advise what worked for me. As you look down onto your wheel the axis of rotation runs left to right. if your positioning is evenly distributed along that axis, even both feet slightly forward or backward (because the pedals arent that long on most unicycles..).. you're going to get the wobbles often because at this positioning there is in fact less counter energy used to offset and kill the wobble, especially for those with undeveloped muscular tone /knowledge of this dextrous application of energy. However...after deep thinking & experimentation I realised that if you position one foot north of the axis and the other foot south of the axis, this has an effect of fighting much better the induced wobbles particularly under braking, because body weight not musculature offsets the wobbles and kills it stone cold dead before its induced to a destabilising amplitude.. ( yeah when your heart feels a face-plant is long overdue...) I just spent hard hour trying to understand this as both my wheels under modified tyre pressures largely behaved the same with wobbles..... hmmm. Now I can accelerate and decelerate and I plant my left foot largely distributing weight to its heel (planted and flat) my right dominant foot however typically positions my weight on the ball of the foot, ie consciously further forward weight distribution. This has 100% killed the wobbles & now I have confidence to go a little faster and brake a little harder. When i get the wobbles it is a reminder that my weight distribution & thus feet positioning isnt optimal in killing the wobbles at source Hope this helps other New riders no doubt perplexed by this newbie experience like I was today. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aneta Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 This is a brilliant analysis and I think it nails it! Indeed, imagine you're standing on a train or bus that constantly jerks; if you're standing with your feet like you're standing symmetrically on a hoverwheel, you have very little leverage to counteract the jerks, and you have to use muscles in your lower legs to shift your CoG within your footprints quickly. This gets very tiring and after some time it even feels you can't trust your legs anymore. If you offset your feet north-south, you get a lot of leverage and you're now also using upper leg muscles. Much easier and more confident to counteract sudden jerks. Bravo! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBanMonster Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Aneta said: This is a brilliant analysis and I think it nails it! Indeed, imagine you're standing on a train or bus that constantly jerks; if you're standing with your feet like you're standing symmetrically on a hoverwheel, you have very little leverage to counteract the jerks, and you have to use muscles in your lower legs to shift your CoG within your footprints quickly. This gets very tiring and after some time it even feels you can't trust your legs anymore. If you offset your feet north-south, you get a lot of leverage and you're now also using upper leg muscles. Much easier and more confident to counteract sudden jerks. Bravo! Excellent analogy.. just back from more practice... when you lock in the distribution right.. there is immediate calm under intense acceleration and braking..., nice one Aneta, that analogy is even better.. . Happy cruising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, RayBanMonster said: However...after deep thinking & experimentation I realised that if you position one foot north of the axis and the other foot south of the axis, this has an effect of fighting much better the induced wobbles particularly under braking, because body weight not musculature offsets the wobbles and kills it stone cold dead before its induced to a destabilising amplitude.. ( yeah when your heart feels a face-plant is long overdue...) This was the stance recommended by @MickeyMicklos as Tip 1 on this video, though he didn't mention this as a solution to wobbles, but more for agility/control/aggressive riding... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aneta Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Excellent video! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Wobbling is about resonance, not about leverage. Wobbling appears by cumulating energy to which leverage can hardly be a good enough answer. I can see that breaking symmetry may help to avoid resonance, while any arbitrary change can potentially affect resonance as well. I still prefer a symmetric stance for both, physical health and better wheel control. But then, I also have a large enough feet to wheel size ratio such that the asymmetric stance gives only minor advantages and wobbles seem to disappear as an issue over time. Edited January 7, 2020 by Mono 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 42 minutes ago, Mono said: Wobbling is about resonance, not about leverage. Wobbling appears by cumulating energy to which leverage can hardly be a good enough answer. I can see that breaking symmetry may help to avoid resonance, while any arbitrary change can potentially affect resonance as well. I still prefer a symmetric stance for both, physical health and better wheel control. But then, I also have a large enough feet to wheel size ratio such that the asymmetric stance gives only minor advantages and wobbles seem to disappear as an issue over time. I don't think anyone is disagreeing on this ... the foot stance is more about dampening any resonance to control any wobble before it becomes a problem. This is how resonance is controlled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayBanMonster Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Nic said: Yeah Nic good video, seems basically saying similar things.. the asymmetry of stance under load seems key to blocking the wheels wobble characteristic. (which is basically cyclical left right tyre deformation and spring back recovery). Some seem to use slightly different techniques to achieve the same ends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, Nic said: I don't think anyone is disagreeing on this ... the foot stance is more about dampening any resonance to control any wobble before it becomes a problem. This is how resonance is controlled. I had the impression that the agreement was slightly drifting and I hence though a reminder never hurts. All the better if it there was no there there 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I think of it this way. Hold a baseball bat in your hands at the very end of the bat and try to move it around while controlling where it points. It feels very hard to control because the weight is so far from your hands. Now grab the bat further up, what they call "choke up" on it. It's easier to control where the bat points now. Also, one hand is in front of the other, so that hand is doing more of the guiding than the other. It's not symmetrical. When I get the wobbles I am usually too far back on the pedals and not using one foot as the guide foot. (For me it's always the right foot!) When I change my stance the wobbles go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 12 hours ago, dmethvin said: I think of it this way. Hold a baseball bat in your hands at the very end of the bat and try to move it around while controlling where it points. It feels very hard to control because the weight is so far from your hands. Now grab the bat further up, what they call "choke up" on it. It's easier to control where the bat points now. Is this a model for changing the resonance of the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmeekc Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Only been riding for about 5 months now, initially I had really bad wobbles on the MCM5 mainly due to ability. Then I couldn't get them to go away and they were always there. I spent a few hours looking at the tire and tube and noticed that the inner tube valve stem inside the wheel stops the tire seating fully because is exits on the side of the wheel, after loads in inflates and deflates I eventually got it true. After this I only get them now and again. I've ridden it on hard mode since I got it and over the Christmas break I've been trying to learn to balance on the wheel when stationery and also riding backwards. So I did this in an area that also has a really steep hill, at one point I was going about 16mph down hill and got the wobble and nearly fell off as I couldn't pull out of it. So I thought I would give the soft mode a try, this now seems to have pretty much cured all the wobbles and I've also done my normal commute in the soft mode since new year. If I do get one going from high speed to neutral/braking I can pull out if it much easier and with more control. Maybe on hard mode when your trying to stop the wobble the MCM5 reacts so quick it actually makes it worse by oscillating everything. Just my thoughts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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