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buell47

16X /18XL fast charge 10A

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Who charges his 16X /18XL with 10 Ampere (2x 5A per port)?

I'm talking about rarly use on longer tours, not for daily use and I know it will shorten the battery life. :)

 

 

Edited by buell47

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but also you could blow a fuse in the hotel room or restaurant ....:popcorn:

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4 minutes ago, Meserias said:

but also you could blow a fuse in the hotel room or restaurant ....:popcorn:

:efee612b4b: 

The power consumption of such a 10 amp charger is relatively low at least there are no problems here in Germany. 

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I would not recommend. If the wheel manufacturers thought it was a good idea then @Jason McNeil would have already had a 10A charger manufactured, and would be selling it.

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In the original review video by Kuji Rolls, he said there were two ports and you could use up to 6 amps to charge them, but not sure where that number comes from.

Is it ok two use two different chargers? Like the original 1.5 amp combined with a 5 amp charger?

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40 minutes ago, fryman said:

I would not recommend. If the wheel manufacturers thought it was a good idea then @Jason McNeil would have already had a 10A charger manufactured, and would be selling it.

For the manufacturer or seller, the risk regarding warranty in the event of something happening is out of proportion to the income.
I wouldn't do that any other way.

The benefit for us is however very large and there already the question arises, is it possible or is it really not possible?

Besides, we all know the attitude of King Song. Safety in the first place, no matter if it could come to a problem only in 0,1 % of the cases and only when Easter and Christmas fall on one day and at the same time is solar eclipse. :efee612b4b:

Probably Kingsong has only saved on the cable cross section and if that should be the bottleneck, this could be changed. :efefe00999:

Edited by buell47

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18 hours ago, Seba said:

I made some tests with thermal camera to determine thermal load on various components of my KS-18L and KS-18XL. As a result I advise to keep current at or below 9 A. It's still enoght to fully charge KS-18XL within 2 hours.

Thanks Seba, we have already discussed it a bit, but the 10A is still a topic. I know you have your limit with 8A.

Can you tell me where you see the problem? The battery itself shouldn't be a problem, is it the board or the cables that looked dubious with the thermal camera? 

I can imagine that the cables are the problem, but one could simply replace them. Have you already done that? 

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The cables from the charging connector to the control board are actually pretty short and don't look any thinner than most cables in a car, such as the cigarette lighter, which can also handle 10-15 A. And that even at 12V instead of 84V. If I use the online cable calculator right, then 84V /10A need just a 27 AWG (0.1 mm2) cable at 25 cm length. :confused1: 

The original wire is a 18 AWG (0.82 mm2) 200°C cable. 

According to the cable calculator: 18 AWG with 25cm length is capable of 84V and 80A. LOL :laughbounce2:

Where is my error, or are several cable cross-section calculators faulty? :confused1: 

@Chriull :)

Screenshot-20191207-111014-Quick-Pic.jpg

 

20191207-120228-01.jpg

 

Edited by buell47

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1 hour ago, buell47 said:

Where is my error, or are several cable cross-section calculators faulty? :confused1: 

Cable diameter, length and max current determine a maximum voltage sag and temperature rise for a given enviroment. So there are different "rules" for cables used in households (how many cables in one ?installation bay?/?tube?) or cars, etc...

Could fit for charging cables used in EUCs. Or not...

If one looks at the battery discharge cables/motor wires beside my gut feeling would say they are ok. ;)

The charge wires don't go directly to the battery anymore but by the mainboard! So all traces/components that are between the charge cable plug and the battery charge input have to withstand the charge current.

The KS16X is measuring the charge current - wasn't there a firmware that started beeping at currents above some 5A?

Also the components in the input protection circuitry of the battery BMS have to withstand the charge current.

So there is more as to just look up some AWG cable calculator :(.

Most presumably it could work out - but there could be valid reasons why KS had this firmware warning at charge currents above ?5?A!

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Yes, they implemented the 5A alarm, but perhaps only because of their extreme safety policy, because a single wheel is burnt down by a faulty charger.
Also the stupid behavior that it doesn't turn off completely after a full charge. This "safety feature" came just after that single incident. :mellow:

Before that it was said that 10A would be okay distributed on both ports. Both the 18XL and the 16X. Later, contradictory statements were made. :confused1:

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1 minute ago, buell47 said:

Yes, they implemented the 5A alarm, but perhaps only because of their extreme safety policy, because a single wheel is burnt down by a faulty charger.
Also the stupid behavior that it doesn't turn off completely after a full charge. This "safety feature" came just after that single incident. :mellow:

Before that it was said that 10A would be okay distributed on both ports. Both the 18XL and the 16X. Later, contradictory statements were made. :confused1:

If you bought your wheel from 1radwerkstatt i'd say chris is the one to give you a "real" statement!

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On 12/7/2019 at 11:20 AM, buell47 said:

Where is my error, or are several cable cross-section calculators faulty? :confused1: 

Cables indeed are not a problem. The problem is that there is a circuit on mainboard that routes charging current. It gets hot under high current. Constant flow of 10 A causes it to go above 100 °C, what could cause overheating in some cases. Keeping current at 9 A helps to keep its temp below 100°C which should provide enough safety margin.

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