INMOTION V11 (2020)

[Mark Wilson]

1 minute ago, EUChristian said:

This has exposed the fact that now that suspension by definition makes the wheel more complex they cannot withstand a fall. Now when these things take a roll they are blowing to pieces. Not happy about this in the least. 

I don't think this is necessarily true. Suspension does add more complexity which can allow for points of failure. But IF manufacturers design the wheel properly there is no reason why a suspension wheel needs to be weaker than a non-suspension one.

[mike_bike_kite]

It would be a natural continuation with the design to have a non suspension version. It could keep the slimness of the design and perhaps have adjustable pedals for ride height and angle. It would be lighter without the suspension bits and the space saved could house the mother board etc so you don't need the turret on the top. If the lights could be incorporated into the top of the side of the shell then it would be a lovely looking wheel. Having pads pads at approximately the same height would help protect things. I guess they'd have to go back to a V10 style handle but, in all honesty, I liked the handle on my V5f. Hopefully it would be cheaper as well as lighter.

[Finn Bjerke]

22 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

This has exposed the fact that now that suspension by definition makes the wheel more complex they cannot withstand a fall. Now when these things take a roll they are blowing to pieces. Not happy about this in the least. 

Its not proof that Kingsong s18 is weak. See speedyfeet reviews and Kuji Rolls too..

Edited August 14, 2020 by Finn Bjerke

[shellac]

I have zero experience with the V11, but given how high @Hsiang is riding on the pedals, i wonder if he had it overinflated and that contributed to launching him after he hit the pothole. 

[Vagrant Sneaker]

2 hours ago, Mark Wilson said:

I wonder if the faster rebound and its lack of adjustability on the V11 can be dangerous when riding at speed? It would make since that the wheel would pop-up quite fast and lose traction, and therefore control, if the rebound is too fast. Of course the rebound is adjustable on the S18 so you could tune it to not do this, I think (I don't really know, just throwing out ideas). Maybe the V11 suspension is tuned to be ideal at slower speeds?

I think you are right. But I also think that because its something new, no one really has the experience with it yet. Suspension is great for control and a smooth ride. The problem is that we don't all know how to manage it on an EUC. I actually just lowered my PSI because the recommended PSI for my weight made the suspension feel tight and bouncy. Not bouncy in a sense that the suspension was going up and down consistently, but it had a really tight bounce when going over bumps. This is what I think could have been the cause of the two pop ups I had. I'm actually gonna ride it in a few since I have the next 6 days off and see how I can find my PSI sweet spot. Its not easy.

All in all, I just think no one knows how to perfectly control the suspension yet. When you see a person that has been riding for years go through what he just went through in that video, it pretty much says it all. There's another level of control the V11 and Im sure, the S18 will require. Like some reviewers out there have said, this is a beast of a machine and I have no regrets in my purchase. We just need to figure out how to tame it.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Vagrant Sneaker

[Vagrant Sneaker]

3 hours ago, eve said:

This is why custom padding is pretty much a necessity on V11. 

I didn't care for padding at first, but it makes a lot sense now.

[stephen]

25 minutes ago, shellac said:

I have zero experience with the V11, but given how high @Hsiang is riding on the pedals, i wonder if he had it overinflated and that contributed to launching him after he hit the pothole. 

I agree when he's riding and going over the bumps the shock is hardly used and the pedal height is high i think the suspension isn't dailed in correct, when i get mine i want a more about cushion ride rather than it be hard

[EUChristian]

50 minutes ago, Mark Wilson said:

I don't think this is necessarily true. Suspension does add more complexity which can allow for points of failure. But IF manufacturers design the wheel properly there is no reason why a suspension wheel needs to be weaker than a non-suspension one.

I understand your point but do you agree that this is clearly not what is taking place?  And there is a reason its weaker  - because more failure points mean more problems, regardless of how robust the situation is. 

[EUChristian]

34 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Its not proof that Kingsong s18 is weak. See speedyfeet reviews and Kuji Rolls too..

I disagree considering I had a preorder for the S18 and switched last week. A handle that just pops up causing wheels to lose balance?  That’s major and it isn’t fixed. Clanking frame when it hits stuff?  I’m not going to make this a them vs us post but if you think the S18 doesn’t have problems you haven’t been paying attention to the threads... 

[Unventor]

21 minutes ago, Vagrant Sneaker said:

I think you are right. But I also think that because its something new, no one really has the experience with it yet. Suspension is great for control and a smooth ride. The problem is that we don't all know how to manage it on an EUC. I actually just lowered my PSI because the recommended PSI for my weight made the suspension feel tight and bouncy. Not bouncy in a sense that the suspension was going up and down consistently, but it had a really tight bounce when going over bumps. This is what I think could have been the cause of the two pop ups I had. I'm actually gonna ride it in a few since I have the next 6 days off and see how I can find my PSI sweet spot. Its not easy.

All in all, I just think no one knows how to perfectly control the suspension yet. When you see a person that has been riding for years go through what he just went through in that video, it pretty much says it all. There's another level of control the V11 and Im sure, the S18 will require. Like some reviewers out there have said, this is a beast of a machine and I have no regrets in my purchase. We just need to figure out how to tame it.

I have 2 rides on my V11. And I think you are spot on with this.

I pumped my suspension on the hard side. And tite way higher than normal. 

I had to adjust this. It is getting closer. But I still need to adjust to the wheel. Just as I had to on my KS16X. Now that wheel me took 300km to figure out. 

On the V11 it is easier, but the suspension needs to be adjusted correctly. It is s next level wheel, no doubt if that. And this is also why I don't think it is a first wheel buy. This take some experience to figure out. It is about sensation of the tide. I think this is what Inmotion had in mind when advertising it as a pro riders wheel. It is not the ability to ride fast, but how you understand the feedback from wheel and feets. 

[Finn Bjerke]

Just now, EUChristian said:

I disagree considering I had a preorder for the S18 and switched last week. A handle that just pops up causing wheels to lose balance?  That’s major and it isn’t fixed. Clanking frame when it hits stuff?  I’m not going to make this a them vs us post but if you think the S18 doesn’t have problems you haven’t been paying attention to the threads... 

I have read a lot seen a lot of films - but you are correct: Why be a firstmover on a chinese product... wait,chill, relax let others move first.  Speedyfeets reviews of KS s18 are sort of positive but theree are som stoooopid thangs on that wheel too. 

Hsiangs accident is not wasy to analyse   over at teelgraf he claism be beleives its a bad tire 

[Unventor]

13 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

I have read a lot seen a lot of films - but you are correct: Why be a firstmover on a chinese product... wait,chill, relax let others move first.  Speedyfeets reviews of KS s18 are sort of positive but theree are som stoooopid thangs on that wheel too. 

Hsiangs accident is not wasy to analyse   over at teelgraf he claism be beleives its a bad tire 

I am no expert. I only have 6000km on other wheels. The V11 feels very different even on 1st batch like mine. I now have like 2 rides totalling 30km on the V11.

The build quality might give you a false safety sensation. Adding suspension to this only multiply that sensation. 

My point is once you feel this is going bad/downhill or what ever you call it, then you are likely to be beyond saving the situation. I don't see this as a fault in design or the wheel. It is something any rider needs to prepare for. Adapting what you can and cannot do on a new wheel. 

I am totally blown away how good this feels. And yet I have not fully tapped into this. It has very high potential. And it is 1st batch still.

Now how does it compare to S1? I really don't care. I am very confident in my V11. But also know I need to manage this to avoid getting over confident. 

And I need to practice braking hard in a safe manner. I am sure this can be done with all the over focusing on sidepads.

Yes side pads might make it easier, but it will only make you ride harder and the sharp line of the limit is very sharp.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Unventor

[Cranium]

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

I disagree considering I had a preorder for the S18 and switched last week. A handle that just pops up causing wheels to lose balance?  That’s major and it isn’t fixed. Clanking frame when it hits stuff?  I’m not going to make this a them vs us post but if you think the S18 doesn’t have problems you haven’t been paying attention to the threads... 

Sorry, but you are misinformed.  The handle does not just pop up causing the wheel to lose balance.  It never did and does not now so there is nothing to fix.  The clanking frame doesn't exist either.  That is the top of the handle rattling around because it has some play in it where it attaches to the posts.  Non-structural and easily fixed by the owner.  

I'm not sure where you are getting your information but it isn't on the S18 thread because these have been discussed already.  What other issues have you heard of that I could possibly confirm or correct?    

[eve]

1 hour ago, Vagrant Sneaker said:

I didn't care for padding at first, but it makes a lot sense now.

Dont really need a torque padding on on shins at the front but padding for jumping and gripping the wheel at your ankle bumps its necessity on V11.

1 hour ago, EUChristian said:

I disagree considering I had a preorder for the S18 and switched last week. A handle that just pops up causing wheels to lose balance?  That’s major and it isn’t fixed. Clanking frame when it hits stuff?  I’m not going to make this a them vs us post but if you think the S18 doesn’t have problems you haven’t been paying attention to the threads... 

1. There was one instance of the handle poping up and it doesnt lose balance. It does nothing. 

2. Every new wheel has problems but to be honest S18 is much sturdier wheel then V11 imo. 

[Vagrant Sneaker]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

...It is s next level wheel, no doubt if that. And this is also why I don't think it is a first wheel buy. This take some experience to figure out. It is about sensation of the ride. I think this is what Inmotion had in mind when advertising it as a pro riders wheel. It is not the ability to ride fast, but how you understand the feedback from wheel and feet. 

Even though this is my first wheel, I have to agree. The V11 requires a lot of riding and suspension calibration for each individual. It's not a EUC you just get on and go. Even if you've been riding for years. You definitely need to carry the pump with you at all times until you find your sweet spot. 

[Vagrant Sneaker]

10 minutes ago, eve said:

..... padding for jumping and gripping the wheel at your ankle bumps is a necessity on V11.

Yeah, thats why I would want padding. You need a bit more security when you hit bumps at fast speeds to keep your shins firm in place on the V11. I think this could possibly make a big difference when you spring up off of potholes and bumps on the road.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Vagrant Sneaker

[Jon Stern]

10 minutes ago, Vagrant Sneaker said:

Even though this is my first wheel, I have to agree. The V11 requires a lot of riding and suspension calibration for each individual. It's not a EUC you just get on and go. Even if you've been riding for years. You definitely need to carry the pump with you at all times until you find your sweet spot. 

That seems to be true for both the V11 and S18, but my impression from what I've been reading and watching, is that the S18 requires more set up than the V11.

I'm saying that without having a dog in the fight, that's just the impression I've developed. It'd be interesting to get some kind of objective evaluation of this aspect of the two wheels.

[Cranium]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I love how they say it's fixed when they have no idea what failed on my board. That really is an impossibility.

Just like I surmised, Inmotion would say the production wheels don't have any problems because it's a different board. And we are supposed to believe them without knowing what changed.

Would anyone fly on the Boeing 737 MAX without know what Boeing did to fix the original problems? It's magical thinking  

I'm not saying this is the case, but it's certainly a possibility:  The electrical engineers could know exactly what failed on your board if they already identified it as an issue with their testing on pre-production wheels.  Your V11 isn't the first to die after someone just left it on it's side for a bit during a ride.  It may be a similar issue and maybe not, I don't know.  While we would all like to know exactly what changed, we should not expect them to be forthcoming if it involves revealing intellectual property.  An example where they could be expected to be vague is with a code change or a circuit board modification.  Hopefully they will, at least, provide a vague explanation of the fix.

One advantage you will have is to be able to compare version numbers on the circuit boards to see if there has been an update and to look for any obvious component changes.  This would be a single verification point but would not indicate a software change or a hardware change that could involve a circuit board component change or a heat dissipation change.

Since they have essentially said it was an issue that needed to be fixed, I would expect them to fix it for you at no cost since you are essentially an extended beta-tester for them.  I have a V11 on pre-order to compare to my S18 and will be watching your videos closely on what you find out.  I'm glad mine isn't supposed to be here for at least another month so I can see how things fare with yours.  Your contribution to the community is appreciated.  

[UniVehje]

Thoughts after first ride on the V11: Absolutely amazing!

The suspension is way better than I expected. We had two wheels with different settings. I had less pressure on my wheel and it was just perfect. The bumps just disappear and you don’t need to slow down for obstacles. I can keep much higher speed on rough terrain. It’s just so comfortable. The other wheel had slightly more pressure and it was good also, maybe a bit sportier feel and the bumps felt a bit more. Really a matter of taste and terrain. 

Wheels without suspension are obsolete now. You really have to need some specific feature to pass a suspension wheel. And I don’t really care about the comparisons. If the V11 suspension is this good, it just doesn’t matter how it compares. Either the S18 suspension is from another planet or the difference is very small. I will have a chance to compare both tomorrow. 

And the light is just spot on. The handle is perfect. Build quality is something that I haven’t seen before on an EUC. 

[Vagrant Sneaker]

Heres some photos of my pedal height. I'm 6 feet tall and weigh 190 pounds. First Image is my iPhone on the ground; I tried to keep them as straight and vertical as possible. Second image is with my foot on the pedal. This ia maybe not as accurate as I would like, but it gives you an idea.

This image is so you can see the top of the saddle where it's broken. After todays short ride, Im gonna lower the PSI again. Couldn't do it now because something came up. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Vagrant Sneaker

[musk]

38 minutes ago, Vagrant Sneaker said:

That warning sticker is awesome.  "Remindings: Please prevent your hands from being pinche while using the putter."

[Rywokast]

13 minutes ago, musk said:

That warning sticker is awesome.  "Remindings: Please prevent your hands from being pinche while using the putter."

that is chinglish gold hahahaha didnt even notice that

[EUChristian]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

Thoughts after first ride on the V11: Absolutely amazing!

The suspension is way better than I expected. We had two wheels with different settings. I had less pressure on my wheel and it was just perfect. The bumps just disappear and you don’t need to slow down for obstacles. I can keep much higher speed on rough terrain. It’s just so comfortable. The other wheel had slightly more pressure and it was good also, maybe a bit sportier feel and the bumps felt a bit more. Really a matter of taste and terrain. 

Wheels without suspension are obsolete now. You really have to need some specific feature to pass a suspension wheel. And I don’t really care about the comparisons. If the V11 suspension is this good, it just doesn’t matter how it compares. Either the S18 suspension is from another planet or the difference is very small. I will have a chance to compare both tomorrow. 

And the light is just spot on. The handle is perfect. Build quality is something that I haven’t seen before on an EUC. 

I think the reason Hsiang fell off was due to not having kuji pads...suspension may have been misdialed but without pads If you aren’t prepared you will still potentially fall off. Once that’s released or we use Chooches work around until then I doubt you can be bounced off as easy. 
 

My issue is the wheel is basically destroyed now from one fall. And no one seems to recognize the issue that will cause - this rolls on you and you now are down a unicycle. 

[Jonesq]

34 minutes ago, EUChristian said:

I think the reason Hsiang fell off was due to not having kuji pads...suspension may have been misdialed but without pads If you aren’t prepared you will still potentially fall off. Once that’s released or we use Chooches work around until then I doubt you can be bounced off as easy. 
 

My issue is the wheel is basically destroyed now from one fall. And no one seems to recognize the issue that will cause - this rolls on you and you now are down a unicycle. 

That saddle looks to be the weak point on the wheel. I just hope that it was intentionally designed that way to preserve the other more important parts and that replacing the saddle is relatively cheap. 

Does anyone with a V11 think this will work in lieu of pads? https://eucsale.com/jumping-pads-for-euc-karambits.html

[Jpd]

2 hours ago, Vagrant Sneaker said:

 

Heres some photos of my pedal height. I'm 6 feet tall and weigh 190 pounds. First Image is my iPhone on the ground; I tried to keep them as straight and vertical as possible. Second image is with my foot on the pedal. This ia maybe not as accurate as I would like, but it gives you an idea.

 

I am your same riding weight, I have the psi on mine set at 100 bottom and 50 on top. What did you set yours at?