INMOTION V11 (2020)

[mike_bike_kite]

32 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

when did marty do a stress test on the wheel... no youtube video and i didnt see any comments here... you sure youre not thinking about the sherman?

Maybe I made a mistake there then, I thought it was the V11 but all these video reviews start to blur together after a time. I'm currently watching videos on camping fridges so I suppose it could be worse and I'd be complaining about the V11's freezer compartment being too small.

Edited August 6, 2020 by mike_bike_kite

[onizukagto]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I know the V11 is supposed to be the quality option with reliability being one of it's major selling points but ... Marty had the motherboard blow on his wheel in his stress test, Duf had the wheel bearings go on his wheel after he road it in the rain, the saddle was snapped on Jimmy's video review and now you have the air shocks leaking on yours. I'd hate to see what an unreliable wheel was like. 

Veteran Sherman was the one that smoked its board. 

Marty V11 pre-production demo had a prototype board issue that suffered problems with incompatible/buggy  updated firmware. 

Production model :

Duf suffered mechanical bearing issues when he got his V11 drenched in a downpour and then didn't ride it for a week causing excess moisture to settle and rust to form. 

Another bloke had a suspected battery failure in one pack during first ride. He suffered a fall but the V11 got him back home. 

Over tightening of screws, incompatible Allen key supplied, cause screw stripping and cracked some parts of the saddle. 

Fill cap on air suspension can come loose if not tighten properly. 

.... And I think that's it? 

So basically 1 lemon and two minor assembly bugs. Screws and bearing are retrofitted on existing and future batch. 

Shipped models will have free replacement parts sent if request, if they don't want to send it back to local dealer for free service. 

[Patton250]

Well I go to use my V 11 for the third time since I got it and the tire was flat. I think we have 5 miles on it. Whatever.

I wanted to change and replace the tire anyway. Does anyone have a video on how to remove the tire yet? I really don’t feel like exploring it on my own. Thanks 

[IamIan]

On 8/5/2020 at 6:13 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

You only have to look at the disassembly diagram of the V11 to see how close to the wheel the batteries have been located. The V11 is remarkably slim compared to any other comparable wheel. That was the point I was originally making.

And I still don't see how that has any relevance .. to my comment about the motor center .. those batteries and slimness are still a different location on the V11.

You also .. only have to look at the pictures of that V11 motor center area to see the potential space I was referencing to.

On 8/5/2020 at 6:13 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

But what's the point???

see the 3 points of such gears listed in previous post.

On 8/5/2020 at 6:13 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

We already have wheels that go fast enough to seriously hurt yourself.

Getting the same EUC speed (whatever that is) .. from less battery watts .. which is possible with gears .. would be better

Getting that same EUC speed (whatever that is) .. from a smaller , lighter motor .. which is possible with gears .. would be better.

On 8/5/2020 at 6:13 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

We already have wheels that go up 40 degree inclines

Getting the same (or more) degree of incline climbing (whatever that is) .. from smaller , lighter , less watts motor .. which is possible with gears .. would be better.

The inverse also .. getting the same (or more) regen watts on braking .. from smaller , lighter , less watts motor .. which is possible with gears .. would be better.

On 8/5/2020 at 6:13 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

I can imagine the feeling you get as you're leaned over at max acceleration when it decides to change gear! Or are you thinking something like the dual clutch system in an Audi?

I agree if it is an automatic and a stepped gear changing .. the algorithm that controls that will be very important to get correctly fine tuned .. the same is true for the automatic and constantly changing stepped electric motor control of the 3 rotating motor phases .. a bad algorithm will give a bad ride experience ... although manual options for stepped gear changes are also a possible option.

Although a dual clutch like you mention would be a possible option .. that would not be my 1st choice .. My 1st choice would be one of the continuously variable options .. instead of the stepped options .. and among the numerous CV options .. I do personally think the the concept of the magnomatics magnetic gear planetary style of transmission is a pretty neat option.

I don't have a crystal ball .. I don't know exactly which one out of the many many options would end up working best .. performance , cost , etc .. and like different ways to put a suspension on a EUC .. not all companies  .. not all customers .. might see the different options the same way.

On 8/5/2020 at 6:13 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

At the end of the day you're adding complexity, possible new points of failure, cost and weight all to get something we either don't need or already have.

Adding complexity .. yes absolutely .. but .. so does LED side lights .. so does blue tooth speakers .. so does suspensions .. etc .. etc .. as I look back at the history starting with the earliest and least complex EUCs .. lots of complexity has been added over time .. EUCs are not getting less complex .. there is a clear historical trend toward accepting increased complexity in the EUCs in order to add features.

Possible new points of failure .. yes absolutely .. same as any of the other added pieces of complexity , and added points of failure the EUC evolution has seen over the years.

cost , weight .. maybe , maybe not .. those to are not as certain .. the gears themselves have a cost and a weight yes .. but .. they do allow for cost and weight savings in other parts of the EUC .. weather it is a net increase in cost / weight .. or if it is neutral .. or if it is a net savings .. that would depend on the final result after all the development .. but .. even if it did add some amount of cost and/or weight .. not everyone buys the cheapest or the lightest EUC .. different people have different uses / personal requirements .. there are heavy and expensive EUCs that people choose to buy (for their own preferences).

Someone could say the same 'don't need' about many EUC feature .. that's a personal subjective preference .. just like people have said that very thing about EUC suspensions .. opinions will differ.

Someone could say the same 'already have' about many EUC feature .. that's a personal subjective preference .. just like people have said that very thing about EUC suspensions ..people used to say 'we already can do that with our legs' ... opinions will differ.

[onizukagto]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Well I go to use my V 11 for the third time since I got it and the tire was flat. I think we have 5 miles on it. Whatever.

I wanted to change and replace the tire anyway. Does anyone have a video on how to remove the tire yet? I really don’t feel like exploring it on my own. Thanks 

 

Alien ride did it. Took longer then expected and they noticed there were some steps they didn't have to do. 

They followed the inmotion teardown.

Edited August 7, 2020 by onizukagto

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, onizukagto said:

 

Alien ride did it. Took longer then expected and they noticed there were some steps they didn't have to do. 

They followed the inmotion teardown.

I’ve seen the video but 3 hours??? 

[onizukagto]

2 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I’ve seen the video but 3 hours??? 

The conclusion is that they wasted too much time removing unnecessary parts and screws, probably could be done in less then an hour. 

 

Edit: and yes. I watched all three hours.  haha

Edited August 7, 2020 by onizukagto

[Patton250]

3 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

The conclusion is that they wasted too much time removing unnecessary parts and screws, probably could be done in less then an hour. 

 

Edit: and yes. I watched all three hours.  haha

These companies should have motor removing videos at launch. 

[redfoxdude]

2 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

The conclusion is that they wasted too much time removing unnecessary parts and screws, probably could be done in less then an hour. 

Edit: and yes. I watched all three hours.  haha

Hahahaha yeah. I skipped through. For example, they removed the handle portion entirely from the shock sliders. And they got pretty far without actually removing the shocks, which probably would have made it much easier.
I think it could be done in less than an hour, for sure. One probably could just follow along with the disassembly video, but just don't remove the batteries, nor the headlight/taillight sections.

[onizukagto]

Just now, Patton250 said:

These companies should have motor removing videos at launch. 

Agreed. But having an official teardown video before launch is better then none, it's at least better then all the other manufacturers

[onizukagto]

 

Talking about minor issues, more helpful tips from Marty on the Pre-production V11, regarding the aluminium shock valve cover. 

Production version has plastic versions.

 

edit: This is probably the first flaw of the V11, cap is designed to screw into the valve and not as assumed, screwed into the shock housing. 

Basically any damage to the cap will be transmitted to the valve and potentially damaging it. Seems like a real oversight, should of kept it "floating" or at least recessed further into the shock housing. 

Probably better to just fit in a cut-out foam and tape it in. would be more better then the cap. @Inmotion Global
Please highlight this problem to your engineers/designers. cheers

Edited August 7, 2020 by onizukagto
thoughts

[Retrovertigo]

I genuinely thought those valve covers screwed onto the body rather than the valve itself.

[redfoxdude]

5 minutes ago, Retrovertigo said:

I genuinely thought those valve covers screwed onto the body rather than the valve itself.

I originally thought so too, kind of odd.

[onizukagto]

its not odd. it's laziness, they just used the existing thread on the air valve to cover and "protect" the valve and called it a day. 

Guess the testing missed the bit where rocks or what, hitting the valve cover would also hit the valve directly. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by onizukagto

[redfoxdude]

I suppose I just found it a bit odd, since much of the wheel seems quite thoughtfully designed. 🙂

[Jpd]

1 hour ago, onizukagto said:

its not odd. it's laziness, they just used the existing thread on the air valve to cover and "protect" the valve and called it a day. 

Guess the testing missed the bit where rocks or what, hitting the valve cover would also hit the valve directly. 

It’s really not a big deal, unless you’re riding over a bunch of river rock. I’ve ridden a couple hundred miles off road (some very rocky) and have only hit one side one time. It might just come down to focusing and picking the right lines.  
Btw my caps are made of aluminum. Who has the plastic ones?

INMOTION could definitely recess the shock by at least an inch and that would probably take care of any issues.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Jpd

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, IamIan said:

Someone could say the same 'already have' about many EUC feature ..

Well, the Rockwheel GR16 of past years already had gears. I heard that it was indeed amazing at climbing steep hills, at least for that time. Not sure how it would compare with the much more powerful modern wheels. Oh, and it was noisy.

I will probably just use regular plastic valve caps on the V11 shocks. If they get bitten and drop off, I’ll just add a new one. 

[Zopper]

10 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I will probably just use regular plastic valve caps on the V11 shocks. If they get bitten and drop off, I’ll just add a new one. 

I’m thinking about those, but with a custom 3D printed (or otherwise created) spacer (kind of a really thick washer) that will be higher than that cap and sit around it and if a pointy rock tries to hit the cap, it will hit the spacer instead and the jolt will be transferred to the metal around, rather than the shock valve. (Unless it is a really narrow pointy rock  ). Just gotta think out how to keep them there. But I won’t have my V11 for weeks yet...

[Seba]

After a first day of my long-distance tour I have two observations:

1. Suspension is very sensitive to air pressure. Before starting, I pumped both springs to 130 psi and it was good for my weight. For the first 30 kms of my ride suspension was working good. But after that distance I started to feel like a springs lost their pressure. Unfortunately I left the pump at home, didn't expecting any problems here. After about 100 kms of my ride I was able to buy an airspring pump and check the pressure. I was surprised that one of the springs was at 110 psi and other at 120 psi, so apparently small loss as I expected it to loose half of the initial pressure or so. So I decided to pump it to 150 psi and continued my ride. Soon I realized that 150 psi is way too high, as springs were way too hard. Again, no suspension  So my conclusion is that you have to get the sweet spot precisely for your wheel, your weight and your preferences. And even just few psi of difference matters.
2. V11 seems to inflate speed and distance readouts by about 9 %. After my first day I've rode for 150 km according to GPS and 161 km according to EUC. And I spotted this just after starting, as I set my speed alerts to start at 26 km/h. I just wanted to make this test at maximum legal speed that is planned to be enforced in Poland for PLEVs on public roads. This is also a good compromise between riding time and energy efficiency, so I can get decent range and save time on charging breaks (as V11 can be officially charged at 5 Amps max in total, 2.5 Amps per port). Just after departing from railway station I felt that I'm getting 26 km/h prealarm too early. I started to verify EUC and GPS data (it's easy with EUC World as you just need to swipe up/down on speed gauge to switch between GPS and EUC measurements). After some kilometers I was sure that V11 adds about 10% to speed and distance. And no, it's not a tyre problem as it's brand new and pumped quite high (as a side note - I have to reduce tire pressure to get better handling). I'm running the newest firmware. It's very easy to spot the speed difference by looking at the speed chart of this tour record - https://euc.world/tour/589182265377351 - notice that brown EUC speed is higher than green GPS speed. Normally they should overlap.

[Ben Kim]

39 minutes ago, Seba said:

After a first day of my long-distance tour I have two observations:

1. Suspension is very sensitive to air pressure. Before starting, I pumped both springs to 130 psi and it was good for my weight. For the first 30 kms of my ride suspension was working good. But after that distance I started to feel like a springs lost their pressure. Unfortunately I left the pump at home, didn't expecting any problems here. After about 100 kms of my ride I was able to buy an airspring pump and check the pressure. I was surprised that one of the springs was at 110 psi and other at 120 psi, so apparently small loss as I expected it to loose half of the initial pressure or so. So I decided to pump it to 150 psi and continued my ride. Soon I realized that 150 psi is way too high, as springs were way too hard. Again, no suspension  So my conclusion is that you have to get the sweet spot precisely for your wheel, your weight and your preferences. And even just few psi of difference matters.
2. V11 seems to inflate speed and distance readouts by about 9 %. After my first day I've rode for 150 km according to GPS and 161 km according to EUC. And I spotted this just after starting, as I set my speed alerts to start at 26 km/h. I just wanted to make this test at maximum legal speed that is planned to be enforced in Poland for PLEVs on public roads. This is also a good compromise between riding time and energy efficiency, so I can get decent range and save time on charging breaks (as V11 can be officially charged at 5 Amps max in total, 2.5 Amps per port). Just after departing from railway station I felt that I'm getting 26 km/h prealarm too early. I started to verify EUC and GPS data (it's easy with EUC World as you just need to swipe up/down on speed gauge to switch between GPS and EUC measurements). After some kilometers I was sure that V11 adds about 10% to speed and distance. And no, it's not a tyre problem as it's brand new and pumped quite high (as a side note - I have to reduce tire pressure to get better handling). I'm running the newest firmware. It's very easy to spot the speed difference by looking at the speed chart of this tour record - https://euc.world/tour/589182265377351 - notice that brown EUC speed is higher than green GPS speed. Normally they should overlap.

I was told that Inmotion speed reporting is more or less accurate with GPS for former wheels (V10/V10F) but evidently this didn’t keep for V11. I’m glad I cancelled my order for this wheel because even if it hit 55 kmh wheel-reported, its only good for 50 kmh actual speed, unacceptable. 

I will wait for the Gotway EX. 

[Seba]

9 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

I was told that Inmotion speed reporting is more or less accurate with GPS for former wheels (V10/V10F) but evidently this didn’t keep for V11. I’m glad I cancelled my order for this wheel because even if it hit 55 kmh wheel-reported, its only good for 50 kmh actual speed, unacceptable. 

I will wait for the Gotway EX. 

Well... V11 won't be a high-speed wheel and I think that Inmotion intention was to build a great all-rounder with suspension and in my opinion they succeeded. For now I'm quite happy riding this wheel. It clearly needs to be turned for particular rider (mainly tire and air springs pressure), but otherwise it rides very nice. Clearly comfort and ergonomy is on top level. Actually switching from my KS-18XL was very easy.

[onizukagto]

35 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

I will wait for the Gotway EX. 

See you in 2023.

When im riding my V12F 

[Ben Kim]

28 minutes ago, Seba said:

Well... V11 won't be a high-speed wheel and I think that Inmotion intention was to build a great all-rounder with suspension and in my opinion they succeeded. For now I'm quite happy riding this wheel. It clearly needs to be turned for particular rider (mainly tire and air springs pressure), but otherwise it rides very nice. Clearly comfort and ergonomy is on top level. Actually switching from my KS-18XL was very easy.

The issue is the same as I have with Kingsong wheels; they advertise a 50kmh top speed when in the real world it’s closer to 45. It isn’t too much to ask for manufacturers to deliver advertised speed and range. 

[onizukagto]

40 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

The issue is the same as I have with Kingsong wheels; they advertise a 50kmh top speed when in the real world it’s closer to 45. It isn’t too much to ask for manufacturers to deliver advertised speed and range. 

Exclusive Gotway / Veteran "Ex-Gotway" Sherman user and speed freak rider is disappointed that Inmotion isn't making a speed wheel that is exactly to the specific 55km/h mark....

Will wait until favourite manufacturer to make another poorly built wheel dat goes faster (and shake/crash itself to pieces faster).

In other news....Sky is blue. 

We get the picture. Thanks for dropping by to tell us why you leaving. I will stamp your forum passport. Please remove shoes before departing. haha

Edited August 7, 2020 by onizukagto

[mike_bike_kite]

7 hours ago, IamIan said:

...

It's probably a bit unfair to hijack this thread with this discussion. You should start a new thread in the general discussion forum to discuss putting gearing in EUC's. That way you'll get a much better response.  Great engineering solutions are usually fairly simple and they're always a solution to an existing problem. I think you'll have to work quite hard to get your idea accepted but it will be an interesting discussion.