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17 hours ago, Mono said:

That tiltback throws the rider off may be true for some wheels (maybe a typical Gotway thing?)

At least the MSX has an extremely smooth tilt-back with a ramp of 6km/h, and I can easily keep a steady speed at halfway. It works for me very well since I will never accelerate rapidly at fast speeds, so even a slight deviation prevents me from going faster.

The 16S tilt-back had a much steeper ramp, so I can see how it can get aggressive if you try to accelerate rapidly past it. But this solution has been presented quite some time ago:

17 hours ago, Mono said:

there is quite some room for improvement of current implementations of tiltback, for example based on acceleration and thrust margin (as mentioned already above) and with constraints for smooth changes, so l guess that's on our future EUC wishlist then :rolleyes:

Exactly and absolutely!

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22 hours ago, Mono said:

I am sure there is quite some room for improvement of current implementations of tiltback, for example based on acceleration and thrust margin (as mentioned already above) and with constraints for smooth changes, so l guess that's on our future EUC wishlist then :rolleyes:

Glad to see more rallying in support of better safety from overlean. :clap3:

 

16 hours ago, xorbe said:

Bluetooth shock collar.

Haha yup. Well okay maybe not this, but yes some better means of communicating to the rider how much margin is left.

Simply prohibiting the rider from going higher speeds is ineffective, because overleans can still occur even at low speeds from heavy riders attempting aggressive acceleration. Overbuild the EUC so it can never have an overlean, no matter the rider weight? That would be cost- and performance-prohibitive. Force the rider to always ride with a certain amount of margin? Perhaps, but how much? (That's what they currently do.) 

Ultimately the best thing is just to communicate how much margin is left, and let the rider decide.

 

On 11/30/2019 at 10:03 AM, General Principle said:

Someway to help prevent cutouts.

The best way to understand this phenomenon is to consider what happens when sprinters lean too far forward while running and their legs can't keep up:

Image result for sprinting fall gif

This is a rare occurrence when you're running, even competitively, because you can feel how tired you are.

Same thing on an EUC: lean too far forward and at some point, it simply can't keep up anymore and you faceplant. Difference is, you can't feel how "tired" the EUC is.

Solution? We need to know how tired the EUC is. Not just a randomly programmed beeper or tiltback warning that kicks in at an unknown point; we need feedback that tells us, in no uncertain terms, how much margin is left before we wipeout. This information is kinda important.

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Another thought but for sellers this time : Sellers could provide inexpensive rental wheels for people to learn on. These could be robust used wheels that are already padded up. Potential owners could pay £100 to use the wheel for a month. If they take to it then that money could possibly be taken off their next purchase. If they don't take to it then the customer hasn't risked too much. Either way the wheel gets sent back at the end of the month. The seller would obviously also have the opportunity to sell helmets, wrist guards, knee-pads and T-shirts each time.

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I don't feel though that sellers of PLEVs currently need to make lots of effort to sell new products. What I have seen repeatedly is that they just start selling scooters and that keeps them pretty damn busy. I also can remember that a reputable seller did not want to encourage customers to try the product before they buy it.

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Also, most people are buying online, so rental is not practical. However, I can see tour companies renting scooters and EUC's in tourist hotspots.

Edited by Nic

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Everyone can use an electric scooter but it's a lot harder to learn to ride EUCs. People like the idea of riding one but aren't sure they'll master it. Currently they have to put down $1000 to see if it suits them. That's OK if you have disposable income but it doesn't suit all. Anyway, it was just an idea ... :)

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I recently heard of people hiring EUC's (I think it was Spain) for £50 a day so I dont think £100 a month would be financially viable.

When you think of the scope for potential damage/cost when giving a newbie a £1000+ wheel, I think even £50 a day is pretty reasonable. Unless of course theres a sizable deposit to go with it.

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17 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Everyone can use an electric scooter but it's a lot harder to learn to ride EUCs. People like the idea of riding one but aren't sure they'll master it. Currently they have to put down $1000 to see if it suits them. That's OK if you have disposable income but it doesn't suit all. Anyway, it was just an idea ... :)

I am total in favor, of course. And we have this post as a counter example to my other observations:

 

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On 11/23/2019 at 3:48 AM, zeke said:

Chargers that attach to the EUC with a storage compartment for the cable

"The Max is the first scooter to feature a built in power adapter":

Edited by Mono

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5 hours ago, Mono said:

"The Max is the first scooter to feature a built in power adapter":

It also has input for an external charger...

Edited by Nic

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11 hours ago, Nic said:

It also has input for an external charger...

I thought so too as it looks like there is a connector for an external charger, but none of the reviewers is mentioning it, and it doesn't come with another charger and one professional reviewer even mentioned the disadvantage that one would be stuck if the internal charger is broken, because one cannot borrow and connect another charger. I am not sure what to think.

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4 hours ago, Mono said:

I thought so too as it looks like there is a connector for an external charger, but none of the reviewers is mentioning it, and it doesn't come with another charger and one professional reviewer even mentioned the disadvantage that one would be stuck if the internal charger is broken, because one cannot borrow and connect another charger. I am not sure what to think.

Its mentioned on this page...

http://uk-en.segway.com/products/ninebot-kickscooter-max-g30

 

MAX.png

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