The durability of electric vehicles.

[LanghamP]

This fleet of EV's exceed 300,000 each.

Few have driven a Tesla to the point at which the vehicle really starts to show its age. But Tesloop, a shuttle service in Southern California comprised solely of Teslas, was ticking the odometers of its cars well past 300,000 miles with no signs of slowing.

https://qz.com/1737145/the-economics-of-driving-seven-teslas-for-2-5-million-miles/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=daily-brief

I doubt anyone who has taken apart their EUC is surprised by this, as electric motors are astonishingly simple.

I can see all-aluminum electric cars being kept for decades, with far simpler designs, and eventually becoming heirlooms to be passed down generations. I don't see how me keeping my car for ten years and then having to get a new one being at all practical for hundreds of years.

Edited November 11, 2019 by LanghamP

[Mono]

The caveat though is that few people want to drive an oldtimer. Even if they are fully functional, they tend to be outdated in so many different ways.

 

[stephenbadger]

Collectors will drool over the classics  with all the curves ...but only the tubeless tyre models 

[Aneta]

Wish Tesla would make EUCs... with their level of engineering. What we have now is Stone Age of electric unicycles.

[Planemo]

45 minutes ago, Aneta said:

Wish Tesla would make EUCs... with their level of engineering. What we have now is Stone Age of electric unicycles.

True. I believe however that Ninebot certainly have the capability in tech, design and skills but don't seem to want to funnel the money into EUC's at the moment. Shame. I genuinely believe they could make a class-leading wheel. A Z20 with a 3" tyre, 2600Wh+ and built to the same quality (hall sensor problems aside) as the Z10 with the usual brilliant, compact design ideas and waterproofing would give the other manufacturers a wake up call.

It would probably be the most expensive wheel as well though, but some would willingly pay for that, even just for the fact that it could be used in all weathers without concern.

[LanghamP]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:29 PM, Mono said:

The caveat though is that few people want to drive an oldtimer. Even if they are fully functional, they tend to be outdated in so many different ways.

There was some financial advisor who recommended that we spend no more than 10% of our pay on transportation per year, because going above that cost meant you needed a loan. That probably means most people could afford a car between $4000 to $8000 while keeping it 5 to 10 years. However, the average driver has a 69 month loan while keeping the car 71 months. Personally, I had to get a three month auto loan because I couldn't afford the 3rd cheapest new car sold ten years ago; in retrospect I think buying a new car was a serious financial error that put me in strained circumstances. I should have just kept my perfectly fine ten year old car I had previously.

Anyway, while I would like to see people simply buy one EV that lasts for decades before being cheaply refurbished as an heirloom, I also see most people including a younger me will simply mortgage their future. People taking out a 69 month auto loan probably cannot be convinced to buy an EV car that essentially stays "design frozen" for several centuries, yet I find it appealing that we could do so if we wanted to, by simplifying EVs.

[Mono]

4 hours ago, LanghamP said:

in retrospect I think buying a new car was a serious financial error that put me in strained circumstances. I should have just kept my perfectly fine ten year old car I had previously.

Sure, it is financially non-sense to buy a new car. That doesn't mean though one needs to or even should drive a 20+ years old car either. The sweet spot seems to be around 5-15 years.

[mike_bike_kite]

I was chatting to a guy last Christmas who'd bought a 2nd hand Prius with 100K miles on the clock to do Uber driving. He'd added a further 250K miles and, apart from normal servicing, he told me he's had two indicator bulbs break. I know it's not a pure electric car but that is phenomenal reliability. I can't quite picture EUC's having the same reliability as they receive a lot of impact damage which must take it's toll.

[Nic]

If electric cars are too reliable and long lifespan then the cost would go up dramatically as less new cars would need to be produced each year, so manufacturers would not see the economics of scale. The prices would have to rise, or they could just make cars that rust after 10 years and force consumers to replace them.

[mike_bike_kite]

I'm sure it's different in Scotland and the US but, down here in London, it's difficult to see the advantages of owning a car at all. A lot of folk have to pay for residents permits to store their car at home. There's insurance costs, road tax, MOT's and maintenance charges. Obviously there's fuel prices. If you drive anywhere then there's congestion charges if I head towards the city. There's also parking charges wherever you go. If you get it wrong then your vehicle either gets a parking penalty or is just towed away. Even if you don't drive it, it just sits there loosing value. No wonder neither of my kids are even remotely interested in taking their driving tests.

Associated with all this is reclaiming our cities that have become dedicated to cars rather than people. There's the pollution issues and road safety issues. We might also see front gardens again rather than concreted car parks. Really what we need to be looking at is better public transport, uber sharing etc and Zip cars etc where you just hire them for an hour or two when you need them. Hopefully it won't be long. 

I'll hasten to add that I'm no saint, I ride motorbikes most of the time, but I can see the change coming. 

[lirva]

I would like to see second hand shops that are capable of fixing EV batteries before I buy older EV without any warranty. 

Now second best is my 2006 prius, still running the original battery. 

 

 

[Coffee guy]

Let's not forget about "planned obsolecance". When a manufacturer realizes they created a perfect machine, they either stop supporting it or claim something won't work unless you 'upgrade'. In the case of cars, some insurance may no longer cover it. How many times has microsoft or apple stopped supporting a certain version, regardless if it worked perfectly..for our needs. 

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Coffee guy said:

Let's not forget about "planned obsolecance". When a manufacturer realizes they created a perfect machine, they either stop supporting it or claim something won't work unless you 'upgrade'. In the case of cars, some insurance may no longer cover it. How many times has microsoft or apple stopped supporting a certain version, regardless if it worked perfectly..for our needs. 

There's now an understanding that cars are so expensive that no one group can afford them. Except for a few boutique manufacturers (Ferrari, Lamborghini, and even those teeter on bankruptcy every few decades), automobile manufacturers need constant government cash infusions in order to stay solvent.

1. Most auto loans are now sub prime loans.

2. Average auto loan is now 69 months. 

3. Most auto loans average $2000 from the previous car that gets rolled into the new loan.

4. Road construction/repair costs adds about half again to your yearly auto costs.

5. And health costs from tailpipe emissions are high.

I think most cities realize the private automobile is too expensive to be viable. That is, it's cheaper to provide free public transportation to its citizens than to continue building and maintaining roads. Kansas City is going to provide free public transportation. Other cities are doing the same. I suspect in a few decades most cities will follow suit. I suspect we will see a few rich people driving cars on mostly empty streets while the unwashed proles ride public transportation.

[stephenbadger]

3 hours ago, Coffee guy said:

Let's not forget about "planned obsolecance". When a manufacturer realizes they created a perfect machine, they either stop supporting it or claim something won't work unless you 'upgrade'. In the case of cars, some insurance may no longer cover it. How many times has microsoft or apple stopped supporting a certain version, regardless if it worked perfectly..for our needs. 

l will tell you a little trade secret ...they stopped producing high tech quality TVs a few years ago at the time plasma stopped ...LCD (LED) & Plasma (sports) used to support the pixel count (hd/full hd) with high picture frame replication (watts), colour guns, layered screens ...then it all stopped, no more research, no more competition ...now you just get the minimal basic frame count (60) that's transmitted onto a basic UHD high pixel screen, glued-in circuit boards, spare parts for a few months, every model circuit board is unique, so a repair man cannot mix & match ...no more printed TV Brand catalogs aaaand a free planned obsolescence/breakdown date

...the whole buy "an expensive quality TV" advertising the public is fed is just an industry wide illusion ...the Phoebus cartel did the same thing to incandescent light bulbs & the same thing has been done to fluorescent light bulbs with the introduction of a "fuse" ...l have fluorescent light bulbs still working fine after 34 years in service.

Edited December 11, 2019 by stephenbadger

[Coffee guy]

And not to mention, the 'blue lights' (emissions). Absolutely horrible for our eyes, but hey, looks good, right? People, please use light filters, or don't look directly at it. It's in tv's, phones, and cars (dashboard, and headlights). This leads to eyestrain, headaches, migrains, and who knows what else.