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57 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

Two reasons:

1. its a calculation based on phase activity, not actual amps being drawn.

2. I regularly spike 100A in DB over and over again, sometimes for sustained periods of time, and i'm not even going that fast in some cases.  Considering the the typical 1845Wh pack can only sustain 60A max based on battery spec, it's fair to deduce that your 90A from normal riding is bs. 

3. If you used Wheellog and set a 90A alarm, you'd find it going off even further; as stated, it is a calculation not actual.

 

And yes, the 5-beep /1 sec is a condition of both battery SOC under load and speed traveled, they aren't wrong.  It is preceded by a 3-beep /1 sec warning which is an overamp warning in most cases.  I've yet to cut out respecting the 5-beep alarm on either wheel.  

FWIW: I did a 21 mile full-send run no stopping with a buddy of mine in a 2200Wh 100V MSX with my 100V Monster  at 30-35 MPH.  If 90, or even 100A within DB is cause for the wheel to cut out, it would have done it then.  

It is not BS,  it is just misunderstood. GotWay is a bit more direct/aggressive when it come to hitting the wheel with amps.  You are reading spikes. by the time the thing stops beeping you hit another spike and start the thing beeping again. If you know your battery is low and you keep hitting your set amp warning you know to back off. It is just another tool.  What you really need to know is how close to using all of the available power you are. that is a calculated guess by looking at voltage and current. I wish you could tell your wheel how much you weigh and how aggressive you plan on getting on a given ride. The warnings could be better.  Set to cruiser and ride closer to the limits. (no sudden moments) Set to thrash and get the warnings quicker. 

The battery can put out 60 amps continuously but that is not how it works. The board uses frequency. So it can put out maybe 120-150 amps using frequency.  Measuring amps can get complicated when introducing timed intervals. 

Edited by RockyTop
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with only 60 km under your belt youre gonna kill yourself... i hope youre wearing adequate gear, yes the jump from 40 to 50 is quite significant, 40 is a very casual pace but 50 if usually reserved fo

I am impressed and ......concerned that you are Hitting the speed limit after just 36 miles on a wheel.  please be careful.  Looking at the numbers the Tesla looks like a good wheel for you. ....

with great power comes great responsibility. With that out of the way, go 100V gotway and don’t look back. Please gear up. 

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

It is not BS,  it is just misunderstood. GotWay is a bit more direct/aggressive when it come to hitting the wheel with amps.  You are reading spikes. by the time the thing stops beeping you hit another spike and start the thing beeping again. If you know your battery is low and you keep hitting your set amp warning you know to back off. It is just another tool.  What you really need to know is how close to using all of the available power you are. that is a calculated guess by looking at voltage and current. I wish you could tell your wheel how much you weigh and how aggressive you plan on getting on a given ride. The warnings could be better.  Set to cruiser and ride closer to the limits. (no sudden moments) Set to thrash and get the warnings quicker. 

The battery can put out 60 amps continuously but that is not how it works. The board uses frequency. So it can put out maybe 120-150 amps using frequency.  Measuring amps can get complicated when introducing timed intervals. 

He's not talking about the 3-beep overamp warning from the board, he's talking about a self-imposed 90A amp limit within the DarknessBot app.  THAT is bs.

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5 hours ago, RockyTop said:

What you really need to know is how close to using all of the available power you are.

I'm 265 pounds. On a Kingsong 18XL, I got the overamp warning once when I was accelerating. At the time I was pushing it a little harder than usual.

I've never gotten *any* warning beeps out of the Monster or the Nikola+. Darkness Bot graphs show spikes up to 100 amps--we have to assume that's a transient value. But @Ben Kim you think that I'd get the three beep warning if I was pushing it too hard, let's say accelerating at low speed. I usually have my battery in the 50-80% charge range.

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2 hours ago, erk1024 said:

I'm 265 pounds. On a Kingsong 18XL, I got the overamp warning once when I was accelerating. At the time I was pushing it a little harder than usual.

I've never gotten *any* warning beeps out of the Monster or the Nikola+. Darkness Bot graphs show spikes up to 100 amps--we have to assume that's a transient value. But @Ben Kim you think that I'd get the three beep warning if I was pushing it too hard, let's say accelerating at low speed. I usually have my battery in the 50-80% charge range.

means you’re not riding it fast enough! I hear them all the damn time.  Problem is I don’t wear a helmet so the second i hear them I lay off. max speed before beeps on either wheel is 39 mph. With that said, I think I ride my wheels harder than you if you’ve never heard a beep on your wheels  

Turn off that 90A amp alarm and you’ll see nothing really will change on your end. It’s a false warning. 

Edited by Ben Kim
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8 hours ago, erk1024 said:

I'm 265 pounds. On a Kingsong 18XL, I got the overamp warning once when I was accelerating. At the time I was pushing it a little harder than usual.

I've never gotten *any* warning beeps out of the Monster or the Nikola+. Darkness Bot graphs show spikes up to 100 amps--we have to assume that's a transient value. But @Ben Kim you think that I'd get the three beep warning if I was pushing it too hard, let's say accelerating at low speed. I usually have my battery in the 50-80% charge range.

I dress out at about 235 on my wheel.

It depends on what you are doing. When riding off road on mountain bike trails I hit the beep all the time . It is set off by the bumps and quick changes in speed and balance. It is not a big deal because I am going fairly slow and the bumps are just quick jabs to the power demand.  Also if I am accelerating from 0 and hit a beep at 5mph it is still not a big deal. ( back off some) If I am going 25 mph  up a hill with a 40% battery,  it is time to back off. I have had more than one cut out like that. I try to keep my wheel above 60% and ride slow enough that baby strollers are passing me at 40%. 

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5 hours ago, RockyTop said:

When riding off road on mountain bike trails I hit the beep all the time

Do you mean the amp warning out of the wheel, or the Wheel Log 90amp warning?

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3 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Do you mean the amp warning out of the wheel, or the Wheel Log 90amp warning?

The DarknessBot and Wheel log 90 amp warnings are expected while off roading and at the beginning of acceleration. It is not a big deal as long as you have a full battery. ( I try not to beep above 10- 15 mph. ) At higher speeds and the closer you get to 40% the more you should take heed of them. It measures amps and does not take your battery level into consideration. 

You should always listen to the wheel beeping. When a Gotway starts beeping you should really listen and back off. 

At our size you have to be careful going up long inclines,( half a mile + )riding above 25 mph while hitting bumps or riding above 25 mph with a 40% battery. Even with a fully charged battery cold can cause problems. 

A battery is like a sponge. When it is full it is easy to get something out of it. When it is getting low or half frozen it is harder to get anything out. 

Also like a sponge when changing, at first it soaks the power in yet the closer you get to 100% the slower and more difficult the process. 

 

Edited by RockyTop
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41 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

The DarknessBot and Wheel log 90 amp warnings are expected while off roading and at the beginning of acceleration. It is not a big deal as long as you have a full battery. ( I try not to beep above 10- 15 mph. ) At higher speeds and the closer you get to 40% the more you should take heed of them. It measures amps and does not take your battery level into consideration. 

You should always listen to the wheel beeping. When a Gotway starts beeping you should really listen and back off. 

At our size you have to be careful going up long inclines,( half a mile + )riding above 25 mph while hitting bumps or riding above 25 mph with a 40% battery. Even with a fully charged battery cold can cause problems. 

A battery is like a sponge. When it is full it is easy to get something out of it. When it is getting low or half frozen it is harder to get anything out. 

Also like a sponge when changing, at first it soaks the power in yet the closer you get to 100% the slower and more difficult the process. 

 

Thanks! Makes sense. :)

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So after trying out the KS18L... Im totally in love. Wayyy better than the V10. Pretty sure the top speed will be sufficient. I hit 46kmh for a short burst and really wouldnt see myself go much faster. The wheel inspires confidence, it’s awesome. Thanks for all your tips.

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18 minutes ago, PY ⠀ said:

So after trying out the KS18L... Im totally in love. Wayyy better than the V10. Pretty sure the top speed will be sufficient. I hit 46kmh for a short burst and really wouldnt see myself go much faster. The wheel inspires confidence, it’s awesome. Thanks for all your tips.

YESSSSS ! Good choice!! :cheers: It is an awesome wheel.  I am glad you like it. :thumbup:.............. you know? .........    You could also get the 18XL. Same wheel Bigger battery. Just making sure you know. :rolleyes:

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11 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

YESSSSS ! Good choice!! :cheers: It is an awesome wheel.  I am glad you like it. :thumbup:.............. you know? .........    You could also get the 18XL. Same wheel Bigger battery. Just making sure you know. :rolleyes:

I was typing the exact same thing, but @RockyTop beat me to it. Bigger battery and 6 banks of batteries instead of 4 ... meaning more current available, doesn't start throttling speed until you reach 25% capacity. It's a great all around wheel.  ;)

Edited by erk1024
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Well theres also a fairly large price difference and I dont see myself doing more than 50km in a day anyway. I prefer a slightly lighter wheel as well so I think the L is perfect :)

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On 11/5/2019 at 12:24 AM, Ben Kim said:

Two reasons:

1. its a calculation based on phase activity, not actual amps being drawn.

2. I regularly spike 100A in DB over and over again, sometimes for sustained periods of time, and i'm not even going that fast in some cases.  Considering the the typical 1845Wh pack can only sustain 60A max based on battery spec, it's fair to deduce that your 90A from normal riding is bs. 

3. If you used Wheellog and set a 90A alarm, you'd find it going off even further; as stated, it is a calculation not actual.

The amperage is not measured at the battery output like on other manufacturers’ wheels, but that absolutely doesn’t make it a BS measurement. I regularly peak at 170A crawling up a steep incline. But I sure wouldn’t go anywhere near that when going past 40km/h.

Gotway wheels don’t have any current based or warnings, so it does not warn about high stress. The 80% warning never launches below the preprogrammed speed (45km/h @ 0% battery for 84V MSX), so as long as your battery stays above the 0% battery tiltback, there is nothing to warn you of an overlean between 0% battery and 45km/h.

On 11/5/2019 at 12:24 AM, Ben Kim said:

If 90, or even 100A within DB is cause for the wheel to cut out, it would have done it then.  

Of course it’s not a ”cause”. It’s one measurement amongst many, which all together determine whether the wheel has the required power to keep the rider upright. The measurement is not BS, you just were mistaken about what it measures.

 

9 hours ago, PY ⠀ said:

I dont see myself doing more than 50km in a day anyway.

I hope you’re not referring to the manufacturer claims about range... They can only be achieved by riding extremely slowly under perfect conditions. Common range figures are about half of the advertised, which may make your 50km a day very boring towards the end of the day as you are riding under 20km/h...

 

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6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The amperage is not measured at the battery output like on other manufacturers’ wheels, but that absolutely doesn’t make it a BS measurement. I regularly peak at 170A crawling up a steep incline. But I sure wouldn’t go anywhere near that when going past 40km/h.

Gotway wheels don’t have any current based or warnings, so it does not warn about high stress. The 80% warning never launches below the preprogrammed speed (45km/h @ 0% battery for 84V MSX), so as long as your battery stays above the 0% battery tiltback, there is nothing to warn you of an overlean between 0% battery and 45km/h.

Of course it’s not a ”cause”. It’s one measurement amongst many, which all together determine whether the wheel has the required power to keep the rider upright. The measurement is not BS, you just were mistaken about what it measures.

 

I hope you’re not referring to the manufacturer claims about range... They can only be achieved by riding extremely slowly under perfect conditions. Common range figures are about half of the advertised, which may make your 50km a day very boring towards the end of the day as you are riding under 20km/h...

 

Claimed range on the 18l is 90km and from what I read this seems unrealistic at good cruising speeds for an adult. But im pretty that my 80kg will still allow me to ride to 50km and not suffer from drastic speed reductions.

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1 hour ago, PY ⠀ said:

Claimed range on the 18l is 90km and from what I read this seems unrealistic at good cruising speeds for an adult. But im pretty that my 80kg will still allow me to ride to 50km and not suffer from drastic speed reductions.

I think @Marty Backe got 45 miles (72 km) out of his range test (going 40kph) of the XL which has 50% more battery capacity. So you should get ... 48km out of it, approximately, if you run it from 100% down to tiltback. But the wheel will start throttling the speed at ... 40% battery? I can't remember. Anyway the XL has more parallel sets of cells, so it doesn't throttle until you get down to 25%. (Of course, with the bigger battery it's a long ride before you get it down to 25%. Marty's range test was 4ish hours if memory serves.)

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18 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

I think @Marty Backe got 45 miles (72 km) out of his range test (going 40kph) of the XL which has 50% more battery capacity. So you should get ... 48km out of it, approximately, if you run it from 100% down to tiltback. But the wheel will start throttling the speed at ... 40% battery? I can't remember. Anyway the XL has more parallel sets of cells, so it doesn't throttle until you get down to 25%. (Of course, with the bigger battery it's a long ride before you get it down to 25%. Marty's range test was 4ish hours if memory serves.)

I got over 60-miles on my XL range test, maintaining speeds between 28kph and 35kph.

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13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I got over 60-miles on my XL range test, maintaining speeds between 28kph and 35kph.

Thanks for the correction! So the L should get approx 40 miles or 64km. Not bad!

Edited by erk1024
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7 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

Thanks for the correction. So the L should get approx 40 miles or 64km. Not bad!

I have an 18L. It gives me tilt back with beeps at 32 miles and this is cruising at 18 - 21 mph on a nice sunny day.

Edited by Dave U
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1 minute ago, Dave U said:

I have an 18L. It gives me tilt back with beeps at 32 miles and this is cruising at 18 - 21 mph on a nice sunny day.

What's your riding weight Dave? Always important when discussing range.

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1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

What's your riding weight Dave? Always important when discussing range.

The last time I rode the 18L I was weighing in at 190 lbs.

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1 hour ago, Dave U said:

I have an 18L. It gives me tilt back with beeps at 32 miles and this is cruising at 18 - 21 mph on a nice sunny day.

I bet you get a bit more range out of that Nikola.  :laughbounce2:

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24 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

I bet you get a bit more range out of that Nikola.  :laughbounce2:

Except for the Monster riders, Dave now has the longest range wheel of any of us local riders :thumbup:

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