RockyTop Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 I agree that guns increase the danger in a robbery. They also reduce the likelihood of a robbery. Don't you think that people that would kill you for $20 are the real problem? "We don't have guns in our country and we do just fine" - Do you have people that would kill you for $20? The Anti guner's view of a word without guns: Picture old London, two older me with lead pipes. - Give me you money I am robbing you. - No, No sir I am robbing you! - No sir I had my pipe out first, I am robbing you! - But I have two kids that need shoes! - I have three kids that need food. ..............OK, ...well ? , My wife has the sniffles and ......... will 5 pounds help? - No you need the money, I will try the next guy, good day- And to you sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Nic said: Lets not forget about all the school shootings where one armed person can kill dozens of others ... that would not be possible with a blunt object or even a knife. I think any attempt to defend the right to carry a gun is just coming from people that like guns and has no credibility whatsoever ... its all just trying to put up a weak defence to keep the right to have guns. Not carrying guns applies to everyone, so you can't go and argue for guns by saying what if someone makes a gun in a garage because we are talking about no guns. You can then work on ways to ensure that no one carries a gun. If guns are illegal then anyone carrying a gun will be at risk of being arrested or shot by an armed police unit. Yes, some will not get caught, but gun crime and resultant death will drop dramatically. That's the point. First you take guns away from everyone. Done! Now the bad guys mass produce guns with a CNC and sell then to other bad guys. Now only bad guys have guns. Telling a bad guy that he can't have a gun is like telling a robber that he can't swear while robbing a store. Cocaine and Heroin are illegal and they have been trying to clean the streets of that for years. How's that working? It had only increased the value and created a bigger industry for illegal jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 29 minutes ago, RockyTop said: That's the point. First you take guns away from everyone. Done! Now the bad guys mass produce guns with a CNC and sell then to other bad guys. Now only bad guys have guns. Telling a bad guy that he can't have a gun is like telling a robber that he can't swear while robbing a store. Cocaine and Heroin are illegal and they have been trying to clean the streets of that for years. How's that working? It had only increased the value and created a bigger industry for illegal jobs. You do realise there are countries where guns are illegal and all the bad guys are not carrying guns made in some CNC shop? None of your arguments stack up here ... they are more an attempt to defend the right to have guns. If drugs weren't illegal then more people would be taking them and more often ... the criminals that previously sold them would be looking for new ways to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Nic said: You do realise there are countries where guns are illegal and all the bad guys are not carrying guns made in some CNC shop? None of your arguments stack up here ... they are more an attempt to defend the right to have guns. If drugs weren't illegal then more people would be taking them and more often ... the criminals that previously sold them would be looking for new ways to make money. CNC shop? CNCs have become more affordable than cars. I know many people that have them at home. I am old school. Southbend and Bridgeport in my garage. Although I would not need them to make a gun. ( metal printers will be affordable soon too) ( plastic printers even work) Sure make heroin legal. People would die, others would learn and the problem would go way. That is if we didn't have socialist policies. The US is simply not like most other countries. We know how easy it it to make a gun. We know that touching a gun does not turn your soul evil. We know that they keep people honest, including our government. We know that they kill thousands and save millions. I know that you can't see this. I am OK with that. I hope your lands prosper without guns. If I could I would make all guns and crime disappear. I don't see how that could ever happen because bad people exist and will take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, RockyTop said: I hope your lands prosper without guns. If I could I would make all guns and crime disappear. I don't see how that could ever happen because bad people exist and will take over. Every journey starts with a single step. Its not going to happen overnight, but it will never happen if people keep making excuses. We do have gun crime in the UK, but most crime does not involve guns because the penalties for having a gun do have an effect and criminals won't carry one if there is a risk of being caught. If guns were legal people would carry them everywhere and keep one handy in the car. People could still be licensed to have a gun if there is a good case for owning one (e.g. you live in a remote area on your own private land, or you are a member of a gun club and keep the gun locked in a safe), but no one should be carrying one around or have one handy in their car or in their bedside drawer. Making drugs legal would not remove the problem of drugs any more than making alcohol more easily available would make people less likely to drink. Its an addiction so people find it difficult to stop once they start. Cultures do vary around the world, but people are generally the same everywhere once the cultural differences are removed. At least you recognise that guns are bad, but the fear of what might result is keeping people from voting for change. A heroine addict doesn't want to give up their heroine but we all know that if they do things will improve for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Nic said: At least you recognise that guns are bad, I don't. Guns aren't bad, No more than sticks or fire extinguishers or plastic bags. People are bad. I could kill most people with my hands yet an old lady could stop me with a her gun. If people were good than guns would become obsolete. Let's work on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, RockyTop said: I don't. Guns aren't bad, No more than sticks or fire extinguishers or plastic bags. People are bad. I could kill most people with my hands yet an old lady could stop me with a her gun. If people were good than guns would become obsolete. Let's work on that. You mean let people have the tools to help them kill more efficiently? There will always be bad people and this is a problem everywhere not just the US, but we don't all feel a need to have guns. Guns could be phased out slowly, first by making it illegal to carry one, but still legal to own one at home ... and little by little small changes add up. I will stop at that as this discussion could go on forever ... Edited November 2, 2019 by Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Well Nbe happy Nic you live in a country that has already disarmed you. Guns are not bad. And Americans have rights. We are not going to tacitly let them be taken. I will take dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joker10 said: Well Nbe happy Nic you live in a country that has already disarmed you. Guns are not bad. And Americans have rights. We are not going to tacitly let them be taken. I will take dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. Their only purpose is to cause harm when used ... its not as if they have another purpose ... that makes them bad. I don't feel like a slave just because I can't own a gun ... in fact its quite a relief to know that others are extremely unlikely to be carrying one. But I take your point as guns are ingrained and part of culture now as its been legal for so long. That's not an easy thing to change. If crime rates are high then there will also be a fear of how to defend oneself if guns were removed. Its a difficult one for sure. Back on topic ... if a cyclist punches you for no reason ... just pull out your gun and make him dance. Edited November 2, 2019 by Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Nic said: this discussion could go on forever ... Very true. Edited November 2, 2019 by RockyTop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpong Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 just shrug it off and carry on. in my own experience with cyclists in toronto, i found 99.9% are just regular folks. there are only a few of them (mostly retired, decked out in their own racing world garb, and carrying on as if they own the cycle path) that are ignorant. looks like you came across one who is not afraid to get interactive. thats fine. next person he attacks, he will probably be surprised (and if its america...) to find that not every one will back down. what i find is that given that quite a few states in america allow conceal or no conceal carry of firearms, why the hell would you want to do that to a complete (and possibly armed) stranger ? get an action camera (a quality action camera) and body or helmet mount it and use it religiously. the best evidence is quality video, which you will have. and after the court proceedings, i hope they have either the money or the time or both, to think about what they done, once they have been charged with assault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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