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paulz

A cyclist punched me this morning.

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On 10/31/2019 at 1:57 AM, Patton250 said:

What if you were with your wife and that man punched her as she went by on her wheel?

Nice try :). Here is another one: what if it was your wife (or husband) who was the bicyclist who slapped/hit/punched/pushed the unicyclist (or you)? I know, your wife would never ever do this kind of thing (like mine never would get punched)...but what if? John Rawls was a wise man. Personally I am rarely affected by ingroup-outgroup thoughts, it's not a thing in my ethical considerations.

Edited by Mono

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On 10/29/2019 at 9:50 AM, paulz said:

I was riding through downtown in a bike lane around 20mph and a cyclist passed me and hit me around the midsection.

Wow. That has never happened to me but I have been yelled at by bicyclists when riding my (now sold) e-scooters and Segway i2 in the park's bike path. The kicker is that I only rode when it wasn't crowded on purpose with their space in mind. The last I rode there I was on an e-scooter on a weekend morning with maybe 2 others in sight. A biker rode up behind me and starting yelling insults. 

I haven't ridden in the street's bike lane during the daytime to experience that yet. And I'd think an EUC is more biker friendly because of the small footprint. 

Did you happen to have a camera? I ride with front and rear cameras now. 

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On 10/29/2019 at 10:57 AM, greentung said:

This is main the reason I ride with a camera either mounted to my helmet or backpack. Bike guy need to be arrested for assault. 

tsg_camera.thumb.jpg.6b2caa23b9e63580bf8b3c464df2d0fa.jpg

I also ride with a minimum of two cams. I reviewed my rear camera (Cycliq) footage after an early ride and spotted something odd. A delivery biker flew out from around a corner, came up right behind me...maaaaybe spotted the rear camera???...changed course and rode away. It was odd because the street was pretty empty and it was a wide street. There wasn't any reason for him to come right up on me that way unless he was curious. But it was still a bit jarring to see the playback. 

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On 10/29/2019 at 3:50 AM, paulz said:

The strike did not come close to hurting, nor did it cause my balance to waiver, but it was not a light tap.

"Outta my way buddy! he may be the soft spoken kind of person. :ph34r: it's been awhile since I got yelled from behind "watch your lane!".

 

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On 10/29/2019 at 11:08 AM, greentung said:

I sometime use an Insta360 camera mounted on the top of my helmet. It captures everything around. It's hard not to miss it. People tend to be on better behavior when they see the 360 camera.

True!

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Hit someone with a car after you get punched and that’s going to be either murder or attempted murder. There are cases were people get away with killing someone when they shouldn’t have.  And there are cases where someone has legally defended their life in a stand your ground state and been put through the ringer in court and financially ruined, George Zimmerman for example.  Not sure what I would have done in this situation, maybe pull up beside him laugh and ask if that was supposed to hurt?  If you want to know about the legalities of self defense In America, you should read Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense by Massad Ayoob.

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Stick a stick in his spokes.  Problem solved.

 

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4 hours ago, Joker10 said:

There are cases were people get away with killing someone when they shouldn’t have.  And there are cases where someone has legally defended their life in a stand your ground state and been put through the ringer in court and financially ruined,

Very True!  

I think that falls back to money and politics. I am not sure how to fix that although I see ways to make it worse. I think people only see the bad in systems and can not see that the alternative could be worse. ( An alarming number of people die in hospitals. Simple logic. Eliminate hospital and not a single person will ever die in one again) 

“ The US is very flawed”,  “It was never great” , “ all these places are better”  

I am sure some truth can be found in these statements   .... but  I just don’t think people realize why some things are the way they are. The US is not a land of like thinking people. We don’t have the same cultures or needs as the guy across the street, say nothing of the people more than 800 miles away in the same state. The Rich and poor, the high class and low class, sinners and saints, just about every religion on earth coexist in the same cities. Keeping that in mind the US does well. 

Sometimes when we make new laws it punishes 98% so that just 2% improve.

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5 hours ago, Joker10 said:

Not sure what I would have done in this situation, maybe pull up beside him laugh and ask if that was supposed to hurt?  If you want to know about the legalities of self defense In America, you should read Deadly Force: Understanding Your Right to Self Defense by Massad Ayoob.

My experience with getting mugged and beaten up, at least twice now over 30 years so pretty good, is that I didn't know I was even in a fight until I lost the fight. And the OP was evidently in that situation; he got hit before he even knew what was going on. Indeed, it took him a few seconds to figure out this stranger had hit him. And that's almost exactly the same experience I've had.

These aren't really fights so much as ambushes. I seriously wonder how many Florida "stand your ground" deaths were simply the guy with the gun bushwhacking the dead person ("judge, I feared for my life when he moved"). I'd bet a lot of gun owners, perhaps the majority, are just itching to pull that trigger and will manufacturer drama to ensure it.

What is funny was I was about to say I've only been in a few fights, but the more I think about it, the more I realized that I had ambushed other men with either pushes or cheap shots, and then forgotten about them because I hadn't incurred any physical harm.

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@LanghamP  I am amazed at how much we agree on before we part ways on an issue. 

Ambushes are almost impossible to get out of and I am sure that you are correct about some people being murdered in the way that you describe. I just don’t think it is common and the alternative is worse. 

Sorry for your rough treatment, injuries and loss. 

I don’t think I have ever been mugged. I have had a gun pulled on me by thug like people twice. I said, nice gun and kept walking. I probably just walked up on something and surprised them.  It wasn’t really an ambush. 

The punch may not have even been hostile. Back to culture. 

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@Hunka Hunka Burning Love You are very wise. I bow to your wisdom. 

See!!    I  said I missed the Canadians!! 

Edited by RockyTop

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Eh, I’m just hoping Google hires me to do some programming for their Quantum computer.  Gotta program right from wrong or else we are gonna be like all Skynet pretty soon! :popcorn:  Then there’s gonna be endless Terminator reboots, and where are we going to be as a species then???

 

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

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4 hours ago, LanghamP said:

 I'd bet a lot of gun owners, perhaps the majority, are just itching to pull that trigger and will manufacturer drama to ensure it.

 

A gun evens the playing field, the 80 year old lady in a wheelchair can defend herself against the 6’4 300 lb man who wants to kill her, even if he has a gun too.  She has no chance without the gun.  I could never understand why someone would be anti gun.  It perplexed me for a long time but I believe I understand it now.  I came to the conclusion that typically, anti gun people don’t trust other people with guns because they visualize how they themselves would use them if they had a gun.  They believe that other people would use guns the same warped evil way.  Therefore no one can be trusted with firearms.  The majority of gun owners don’t want to ever use them against another person.  As the majority of people who really know martial arts, don’t want to have to use them on another person.

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I have got to see that movie Hunka.  Looks hilarious.

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3 hours ago, Joker10 said:

A gun evens the playing field, the 80 year old lady in a wheelchair can defend herself against the 6’4 300 lb man who wants to kill her, even if he has a gun too.  She has no chance without the gun.  I could never understand why someone would be anti gun.  It perplexed me for a long time but I believe I understand it now.  I came to the conclusion that typically, anti gun people don’t trust other people with guns because they visualize how they themselves would use them if they had a gun.  They believe that other people would use guns the same warped evil way.  Therefore no one can be trusted with firearms.  The majority of gun owners don’t want to ever use them against another person.  As the majority of people who really know martial arts, don’t want to have to use them on another person.

Almost all the gun deaths in St Louis seem to be ambushes. Certainly the drive-by shootings are. Occasionally we do hear of self defense, often still with tragic results. That's not in the majority. I simply don't hear of little old ladies using guns much except in Fox News.

I think your conclusion is ridiculous. It's like saying a policy maker wants education standards because he'd goof off too, or that we want labor protection laws because we're thinking of exploiting people. Or that anti gay people are secretely attracted to the same sex. Or all pacifist want war. It's silly argument when you assert the opposite of declared position. It reminds me of Orson Wells 1984.

I think a simpler reason people become anti-gun is they don't like people getting shot. I was on a bus when some guy got shot on it. And I mean, shot and killed. Everyone just stopped and froze, but it took some time to figure out that, damn, someone got killed. Young guy, too.

Personally, I think civilization where you don't immediately bushwhack some guy for his shoes, and then take his woman and daughters, is highly unnatural. I wonder if gun owners are just a bit more in touch with their savage side, and might be just a tad disappointed that civilizations nowdays control weapons to the degree that they do.

Edited by LanghamP

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5 hours ago, Joker10 said:

I have got to see that movie Hunka.  Looks hilarious.

I just watched it.  Trailer looked pretty funny, but it was more a twisted dark thriller/comedy sort of movie.  It had few moments and some oddly relevant messages, but it wasn’t that great.  :sleep1:

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Thanks for the movie review Hunka,  too bad, I was hoping for some good laughs.

 

Sorry you had that bus experience Langham, that is disturbing.  Also check the first sentence in your last paragraph, I think you didn’t mean to have the word don’t in it. The kind of people who ambush us are the people who I want good people to have a chance to protect themselves from.  It’s tough because good guys have to react to the bad guys violence.  The best chance we have is to pay attention to pre attack indicators.  Watch some of the active self protection videos on YouTube.  People defend themselves with firearms and other weapons all the time.  Sometimes the good guy wins, sometimes they don’t.  90 % of the people I know own a firearm.  None of us want to shoot anyone.  But to be truthful if any of them wanted to shoot people, they would become someone I used to know.  I don’t hang around evil people, I have nothing in common with them.  

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Take away guns and people may get beat up and robbed, but generally no one dies. Also, there is no chance of weaker individuals trying to rob someone bigger/stronger than themselves or even a group of people. Guns do not level the playing field as the person who pulls their gun out first has the advantage.

 

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56 minutes ago, Nic said:

Take away guns and people may get beat up and robbed, but generally no one dies. Also, there is no chance of weaker individuals trying to rob someone bigger/stronger than themselves or even a group of people. Guns do not level the playing field as the person who pulls their gun out first has the advantage.

 

Generally when people rob someone with a gun or other weapon for that matter, they rob them, they are normally out to get money, not kill someone.  People are murdered every day with blunt objects , knives, ligatures etc.  What are the chances a stronger individual robs weaker individuals?  Why should the old, weak, outnumbered, or frail be unable to protect themselves?  The person who pulls the knife, hammer, or suddenly punches you in the face first has the advantage as well.  

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25 minutes ago, Joker10 said:

Generally when people rob someone with a gun or other weapon for that matter, they rob them, they are normally out to get money, not kill someone.  People are murdered every day with blunt objects , knives, ligatures etc.  What are the chances a stronger individual robs weaker individuals?  Why should the old, weak, outnumbered, or frail be unable to protect themselves?  The person who pulls the knife, hammer, or suddenly punches you in the face first has the advantage as well.  

If someone robs another person who has a gun someone will end up getting shot. Sure people can be killed with other weapons like knives, but using a gun and shooting first is game over and the other person has no chance to defend themselves at all. Guns just up the chances of getting killed as the stakes are higher. If someone pulls a gun on you and shoots, you are likely dead, but if they pull out a hammer you at least have a chance and can run away. You cant run from a gun. When the stakes are higher the end result is usually much worse. If someone punches you in the face they don't have much of an advantage because you are not dead and could still fight back.

Edited by Nic

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Yes if some psycho comes up and shoots you for no reason you are probably going to die Because they are probably going to shoot you until you are dead.  Likewise if someone is intent on killing you with a knife in an unprovoked attack you are going to die almost always.  Your chances are better with a blunt object.  Unprovoked attack is going to give the attacker and advantage every time, be it gun, fist, knife whatever.  

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2 hours ago, Nic said:

Take away guns and people may get beat up and robbed, but generally no one dies. Also, there is no chance of weaker individuals trying to rob someone bigger/stronger than themselves or even a group of people. Guns do not level the playing field as the person who pulls their gun out first has the advantage.

 

If I can make a functioning gun in my garage in an hour and I can, if a young woman can replicate a beautiful colt revolver in a month and she can. Why do you think you can take guns away from people that can replicate advanced drugs and chemicals. 

The thug with guns that are being described are not legal gun owners. If you have a felony you are not permitted a gun. If you have any violence you can not carry a gun legally.

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Lets not forget about all the school shootings where one armed person can kill dozens of others ... that would not be possible with a blunt object or even a knife.

I think any attempt to defend the right to carry a gun is just coming from people that like guns and has no credibility whatsoever ... its all just trying to put up a weak defence to keep the right to have guns. Not carrying guns applies to everyone, so you can't go and argue for guns by saying what if someone makes a gun in a garage because we are talking about no guns. You can then work on ways to ensure that no one carries a gun. If guns are illegal then anyone carrying a gun will be at risk of being arrested or shot by an armed police unit. Yes, some will not get caught, but gun crime and resultant death will drop dramatically.

Edited by Nic

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