A cyclist punched me this morning.

[Patton250]

30 minutes ago, Mono said:

Believable. It's a sad state the US of America is currently in, justice-wise.

It’s much better when you live in a country where only the government and criminals have guns. 

[RockyTop]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

Believable. It's a sad state the US of America is currently in, justice-wise.

I would rather live in a land that you have to be polite to good people to keep from sending the wrong message. Than live in a land that protects bad people that intend to harm you. 

The rules are simple here. Don’t break into someone’s house. Don’t assault people. Don’t aggressively  and intentionally pose a threat to someone’s life. Don’t rape someone and you get to keep your life. Their is almost no crime in my neighborhood. Down town people kill each other over drugs. don’t sell drugs, don’t do drugs, don’t join a gang. Very simple. I should not be held responsible for other people’s bad choices. Not physically or financially.

I take joy in helping my neighbors .... as long as they have a desire to help themselves. 

I would hate to live in a place where if someone breaks into your house and trips on the stairs and gets to sue the home owner. 

The simple rule is respect each other. 

Today’s society is robing Darwin blind. 

I could not live in a place that punishes the victims. 

[RockyTop]

29 minutes ago, Chriull said:

That's the legal system for some part of this world. Unrelated to EUC driving and getting quite offtopic here.

The whole topic here seems to escalate too much!

Better to leave this discussion, or Continue it privately.

Otherwise this topic/post have a good chance to make us mods unnecessary work deciding about warnings/locking this topic...:(

It is a private forum. You have full right to do so.  

It is raining here. ......... I don’t what to ride in the rain.................................I miss the Canadians.....................................................

[Mono]

To me it seems preferable to live in a place where the homicide rate is 1 instead of 5 per 100,000 inhabitants per year and where the incarceration rate is 100 instead of 650 per 100,000 inhabitants, but that is of course not all there is to it.

[Mike Sacristan]

Now that it's winter I guess I can start wearing my escrima sticks again.
Do I take the lighter bamboo one with more snap to it or the heavier standard one?
The heavier one definitely has more crushing force but I have to follow through the strikes.
The light one can smack better but doesn't have the same crushing force. Much more agile though.
I would prefer the light one vs a knife. On the other hand if someone does punch me in the stomach there is most likely something wrong with them and it wouldn't surprise me if they did have a knife.

Then perhaps some fishing line with nuts and bolts tied into it to stop the cyclist before their full body massage.

Hmmm...

So the outcomes...
Criminal record for violent behaviour.
Someone gets in a lucky punch. Other guy gets knocked out, brain damage or dead.
Someone gets stabbed, cut or disfigured.
Black eye, broken nose, go to work the next day. "You should see the other guy."

What's stopping people in the US from just spreading their asses out and flailing all over the place?
If someone calls me out I would tell them off in the most vile way provoking them to be violent.
If they make any physical threat I would just shoot them.
Sounds like a win/win to me!

This post apocalyptic world we live in sure ain't easy.

I made you guys a poopy.

 

[Patton250]

32 minutes ago, Mono said:

To me it seems preferable to live in a place where the homicide rate is 1 instead of 5 per 100,000 inhabitants per year and where the incarceration rate is 100 instead of 650 per 100,000 inhabitants, but that is of course not all there is to it.

Well if you removed our urban areas from the homicide statistics we would be even with you. And I’d much rather live in a country where the people will always have the power to make sure they maintain control over the government. A lot of our fellow first world countries the people no longer have that power and have become subject to the government. You’re welcome to that sir.  We’ve seen how that’s worked out in the past through thousands of years of history. As for me I’ll pass. If you recall history that was tried on us in the late 1700s and then again in the early 1800s. It didn’t work out too good for the invading army. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Patton250

[paulz]

5 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Were you carving?

Safety is my priority when riding. I was traveling in a straight path at a constant speed with minor course deviations for road bumps.    I was starting to slow down to ride behind the lime scooter in front of me for the final three blocks of my trip because the bike lane is not wide enough for passing.

While I'm grateful for people like @RockyTop who take personal risk for the cause of justice; that is not me.  Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't; meaning, there is lots of room escalate.   Even if I chased him down, retaliated and 'won' (unlikely as @LanghamP points out), tomorrow he might be waiting for me with a gun.  I don't want to engage with a violent person who has already demonstrated grievous lack of judgement and proportionality. 

Physically retreating is not the same as giving up.  I'm have a large social network, I'm a caucus-member in local elections and I am involved in my community.  Local politicians are surprisingly responsive to reasonable voters with legitimate concerns.  As my city tweaks transport policy and sets enforcement priorities, I will be there to advocate for personal electric transportation. 

Commuter bicyclists are a narrow demographic. Cyclists are loosing control and ownership of 'bike lanes' because public infrastructure for cycling is being more efficiently allocated to scooters and other electric vehicles with broad appeal.  Perhaps the cyclist who punched me realizes that the end of the 'bike lane era' is near, and his violence was an impotent strike against an inevitable future where he is relegated to being a bicyclist in the scooter lane.

 

 

 

[paulz]

3 hours ago, Blueblade said:

Yet another argument for having a 1600Wh+ class EUC, for cases where you need to be able to catch or outrun the crazy middle-aged men in lycra, eh?

For the record, I was on a V10F.  Following would have been dangerous because he went through an intersection as the light was changing. 

[RockyTop]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

 

Vigilante justice is a pretty serious crime, to all I know.

 

If you are being attracted it is called defending yourself. I am not telling anyone to track someone down and hurt them. I am not even telling anyone that physically defend themselves is always a good idea. I am just saying that it would not be a good idea to test your bullying skills on someone like me and if a bully gets hurt “whilst” bullying they are not going to get any sympathy in the US. 

?????????? ............. I remember reading about the days when England was being bombed every night. The people slept in the tunnels and continued to live their lives. They fought back and did what ever they could to turn the tides. They did not give up. They did not surrender. The were willing to die before surrendering. “Keep Calm and carry on” As a last ditch effort they defiantly sent all the knowledge that they worked hard for to the US so that their attacker would not benefit from it. .....What happened to those people?? ................

Your stats are flawed. If the bad guys get to do whatever they want while you can’t even legally ride an EUC then what is crime anyway. There is no crime at all in North Korea. Maybe you would like it there better. 

[Blicky Te⚡️la]

On 10/29/2019 at 9:50 AM, paulz said:

I was riding through downtown in a bike lane around 20mph and a cyclist passed me and hit me around the midsection.  I did not see or hear him coming. The strike did not come close to hurting, nor did it cause my balance to waiver, but it was not a light tap.  It was hard enough that he may have been trying to knock me over.  As far as I know, I’ve had no previous interaction with this person. I’ve been racking my brain trying to figure out what this guy was thinking.  Why do something so dangerous?  If things went terribly wrong for me, he could be charged with homicide.   

Was this a fluke?  Anyone else experience something similar? In smaller city (Minneapolis) with not so many winter cyclists, there is a decent chance that I’ll run into this guy again if he is a regular commuter. Cyclists downtown are typically affluent professionals commuting to work.  Is there something I might have done to provoke him? I’ve done this exact route many times before.

Isn’t Minn the only US city to ever make the top lists for bike commuting in the world?

[Blueblade]

40 minutes ago, paulz said:

For the record, I was on a V10F.  Following would have been dangerous because he went through an intersection as the light was changing. 

Yeah, he got away with it this time. Who knows what would have happened if you did catch up to him, anyway. 

That camera is not a bad idea.

Hopefully he punches an ill-tempered cage fighting EUC rider the next time, or he gets arrested with video evidence and/or witnesses.

At least you weren't injured.

[LanghamP]

56 minutes ago, paulz said:

Physically retreating is not the same as giving up.  I'm have a large social network, I'm a caucus-member in local elections and I am involved in my community.  Local politicians are surprisingly responsive to reasonable voters with legitimate concerns.  As my city tweaks transport policy and sets enforcement priorities, I will be there to advocate for personal electric transportation. 

You have my respect for controlling your actions. It's savages who ambush and counter ambush each other, with predictable results.

What does a society look like if men walk the talk instead of just talk the talk?

This.

Noble Savages: My Life Among Two Dangerous Tribes -- the Yanomamo and the Anthropologists.

Half to 2/3 of men die violently from this constant low intensity conflicts, where just about every male has potentially deadly fights with every other male. Imagine having to scream the names of all your relatives to any other male you meet, hoping to have one in common so you aren't obligated to fight, as any non related males to you can and should be killed upon sight.

Pointless. There's no convincing men who feel they must, with a click of a trigger, take the life of another man for any or no reason. Have such people ever been in a serious fight, where the loser dies or is crippled? I used to think I was tough until I got into a few friendly fights, where the other guy wasn't serious. I still got my nose broken.

If you absolutely must fight then just use pepper spray, maybe trip him immediately afterwards if you're fat and slow, and no one need get hurt or involve the police. Everyone's happy. You for pepper spraying him and him for making you run away. It's a win win situation.

[RockyTop]

8 minutes ago, Blueblade said:

 

Hopefully he punches an ill-tempered cage fighting EUC rider the next time, or he gets arrested with video evidence and/or witnesses.

At least you weren't injured.

See!! , Now you get it. Well said! 

Also don’t you think that punching someone for seemingly no reason is a little ill tempered. 

 Making the victims the bad guy. 

[Blueblade]

While I could debate aspects of this with you, I was really just trying to speak to the OP's assault while EUCing situation with what advice/opinion is best likely to lead to the most favorable outcome for him in this situation, (in the US), and as Chriull mentioned,  this thread is really turning more into philosophical arguments having nothing to do with EUCs.

Any attempt to injure a person, not made in self defense or in defense of another person, will likely land you in legal hot water.  You also cannot shoot a person unless that person is making a clear and imminent danger to you or another person's life.

If you were intent on chasing down and fighting the guy, i might suggest, taunting him "what, you're going to just punch me and run away, you pussy?" Etc, without making any direct threats to assault him.  If you're in luck, you'll piss him off enough that, he'll come at you first, which you're ready and hoping for, and now you have legal justification to defend yourself against the attacker who now assaulted you not once but twice.  Hopefully you're the far superior fighter. I wish you luck, the the guy is a jerk, and deserves to lose, and maybe have an attitude adjustment as a result.

[RockyTop]

@Mono I have a great amount of respect for you for standing up for what you believe in.   I am not trying to offend anyone. I am really trying to understand other people’s culture. Many systems work. Even the ones that I can’t quite wrap my head around. It seems that  most cultures appear reasonable to the people living in them. I am really trying to understand not being able to defend yourself. ( self defense is vigilante even during the attack on your person) I am trying to understand that. Not that I agree.  

To everyone else. No offense intended. I wish EVERYONE  well. Even @LanghamP. ( think you can take the joke? If not, I still wish you well.)

Remember not to hate. Hating is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get ill. 

 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

You have my respect for controlling your actions. It's savages who ambush and counter ambush each other, with predictable results.

What does a society look like if men walk the talk instead of just talk the talk?

This.

Noble Savages: My Life Among Two Dangerous Tribes -- the Yanomamo and the Anthropologists.

Half to 2/3 of men die violently from this constant low intensity conflicts, where just about every male has potentially deadly fights with every other male. Imagine having to scream the names of all your relatives to any other male you meet, hoping to have one in common so you aren't obligated to fight, as any non related males to you can and should be killed upon sight.

Pointless. There's no convincing men who feel they must, with a click of a trigger, take the life of another man for any or no reason. Have such people ever been in a serious fight, where the loser dies or is crippled? I used to think I was tough until I got into a few friendly fights, where the other guy wasn't serious. I still got my nose broken.

If you absolutely must fight then just use pepper spray, maybe trip him immediately afterwards if you're fat and slow, and no one need get hurt or involve the police. Everyone's happy. You for pepper spraying him and him for making you run away. It's a win win situation.

You make good points.  I was just reflecting upon how sad it was to lose half to 2/3 of my neighborhood men to violence. 

[Mono]

29 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I am really trying to understand not being able to defend yourself. ( self defense is vigilante even during the attack on your person) I am trying to understand that. Not that I agree.  

Sure, many laws differ from country to country, but those don't in ours. Self defense is a very universally accepted right. Vigilante justice is not. Jumping on a cyclist is not self defense. I also understand that the rules in the US may be significantly different if the play takes place on your own home ground or even in the space you currently occupy. That is indeed a cultural difference. Where I live, stand your ground is not a thing. That is, if you can back off to prevent harm to others without harming yourself, you have to, even if you strongly feel that it sucks.

[RockyTop]

In my area stand your ground includes and place you are legal to be in. 

Even then- Hypothetically, and this is really pushing the limits, if you are carrying a firearm illegally in a courtroom and you end up defending your life with it and you can prove that the police officers in the room could not have protected you. You did break the law but it would be hypocritically overruled by the fact that it was necessary to save your life. Please never take a gun into court. The officers would have full reason to use lethal force against you. This is strictly hypothetical. 

Also if a business tells you that you can not carry a gun into their business and you are injured by an attacker the business is responsible for your injuries. (Few states have this law) I understand why people have a problem with guns and gun laws. I get it. No need in starting that argument. But the threat of something needs to keep people honest and the government might not be the best solution. 

Once someone stops attacking and retreats it becomes illegal, however if I am falling to the ground because someone intentionally knocks me off a wheel, I believe I would have full right to fall on top of him instead of under him. 

I have never once said that it was OK to chase someone down and hurt them.  I said if I am falling and someone pushed me I would grab them and take them down with me. If jumping on their back will reduce my injuries, the law would be on my side. They caused the danger. If I caused the danger I would do everything I could to make sure the other person was unharmed. 

( my belief)  I am not OK with violence, that is why I have no tolerance for people that inflict it on others. I would rather that people keep tying to rob “cage fighters” and armed store clerks than hurt people that can’t defend themselves. 

[Patton250]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

Sure, many laws differ from country to country, but those don't in ours. Self defense is a very universally accepted right. Vigilante justice is not. Jumping on a cyclist is not self defense. I also understand that the rules in the US may be significantly different if the play takes place on your own home ground or even in the space you currently occupy. That is indeed a cultural difference. Where I live, stand your ground is not a thing. That is, if you can back off to prevent harm to others without harming yourself, you have to, even if you strongly feel that it sucks.

Confronting a person that punched you while bicycling by you is not being a vigilante. What if you were with your wife and that man punched her as she went by on her wheel? I suppose you would just ride off into the sunset and say nothing to the guy? I not advocating shooting him or even starting a fight but I most certainly will confront him and call the police if he assaulted me or a person with me with zero provocation.

[RockyTop]

19 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Confronting a person that punched you while bicycling by you is not being a vigilante. What if you were with your wife and that man punched her as she went by on her wheel? I suppose you would just ride off into the sunset and say nothing to the guy? I not advocating shooting him or even starting a fight but I most certainly will confront him and call the police if he assaulted me or a person with me with zero provocation.

I think that is a misunderstanding. The phrase jumping on someone was used literally not verbally. 

[LanghamP]

On 10/30/2019 at 2:13 PM, paulz said:

For the record, I was on a V10F.  Following would have been dangerous because he went through an intersection as the light was changing. 

Hey man, I think they found your bicyclist. Chubby guy with a Katana, right?

 

[Daniel-Son]

I love Florida!

[Patton250]

6 hours ago, Daniel-Son said:

I love Florida!

Most definitely one of the better states. A low tax state. A free state.

[Mono]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:57 AM, Patton250 said:

Confronting a person that punched you while bicycling by you is not being a vigilante.

True, but jumping on them is.
 

On 10/31/2019 at 1:57 AM, Patton250 said:

I not advocating shooting him or even starting a fight but I most certainly will confront him and call the police if he assaulted me or a person with me with zero provocation.

That's perfectly fine, we are on the same page. I don't argued against talking to an aggressor at any point in time, before, during or after the aggression. Talking is indeed often an excellent way to resolve conflicts and even change behavior.

 

 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I don't argued against talking to an aggressor at any point in time, before, during or after the aggression. Talking is indeed often an excellent way to resolve conflicts and even change behavior.

God didn't leave it to chance, did he? Why can we make a fist with our hand when it's good for nothing?

Edited November 1, 2019 by buell47