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InMotion V8f

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If you put both those riders on a V8 which only has a hard software setting but with much more limited hardware power/torque, the light rider will experience pedal hardness very similar/damn-near-equivalent to the KS16S on its hard setting, whereas the heavy rider may experience a bit more 'softness'/'squidginess' in the pedals due to the limitations of the wheel's hardware responsiveness in accommodating the heavier rider's weight.

I find it interesting that you call the only available riding mode ”a hard setting”.

EUCs don’t have a way to measure the rider’s weight, the motor is powered only based on the amount of forward tilt. If a heavy rider and a light rider apply the same amount of force to tilt the pedals forward, the wheel will apply the same amount of power. If the hardware is not near to it’s limits, the motor will succesfully apply the requested amount of power as well.

Obviously for the same amount of tilt force at the pedals the light rider must lean further forward, and he will in turn accelerate faster.

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a heavy rider might be able to brute force a V8 to being more soft (due to their extra leverage) doesn't make the wheel itself objectively more soft--and it certainly doesn't make it more soft respective to and for lighter riders who never experience that at all.

I assume that you are responding to my earlier comments. Maybe you missed my previous reply. Key points:

1) I only rode the V8 far short of it’s maximum speed, and only with very slow accelerations, and didn’t accelerate uphill at all. Mr Brute Force wasn’t even in the same part of the town at the moment.

2) The V8 owner is a short and very skinny guy, weighing just 65kg if my memory serves me correctly. He had the exact same observation, that the pedals on the 16S felt more firm, and he said that the wheel feels significantly more powerful than his V8.

(This was despite the very large pedal extensions I have on my 16S, which would make it easier to overpower the wheel and bring out the power related softness.)

We do know that pedal firmness does not relate to the available power. For example, the 500W S2 feels harder than the 1200W 16S.

Unless the wheel is nearing it’s limits, the pedal hardness only tells us how the manufacturer decided to program the response curve. Heavy riders can assess this just as much as light riders. Actually, I can even see and feel it to some extent while rolling my 16S and the MSX back and forth without a rider at all.

Also, neither the motor, battery nor the controller knows what their own actual maximum performance rating is. They apply the requested power until they can’t. Just like a 1000W light bulb will get the same amount of current regardless of being run by a 10A or a 40A fuse. Usually there are programmed limitations on EUCs, such as the ”overpower” warning and a tilt-back on newer Kingsongs, but their thresholds are just calculated by the manufacturer. Unplug the other battery and the warnings come too late, since the max available current is now half of what the firmware assumes.

But none of this is to say that the V8 pedals are soft on any specific scale. When I got my 16S with the 2017 firmware, even the medium mode was far harder than I thought could even be possible on an EUC. A year later I tried the V10F with the 1st gen firmware. Same thing, harder than should be possible without magic. Again a year later I bought the MSX, and just like before, harder than I still thought possible.

If you feel that the riding mode on your V8 is hard and solid, that’s fine! I’m not arguing with that. But I do have some experience to compare the V8’s riding mode to a few other wheels, and there are harder ones available. A difference that can be felt even when riding peacefully at 10km/h.

 

Edit: From the V8F review video linked at the previous page, "the V8F power feels closer to a V10F than a V8". So a 1000W wheel feels closer to a 2000W wheel than to a 800W wheel. The math doesn't really work, so the difference must be mostly in differences in the programmed behaviour. The trend for the last 2 years has been to make the riding modes more and more stiff, so I think this was a smart move from Inmotion.

Edited by mrelwood

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16 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

But none of this is to say that the V8 pedals are soft on any specific scale. When I got my 16S with the 2017 firmware, even the medium mode was far harder than I thought could even be possible on an EUC. A year later I tried the V10F with the 1st gen firmware. Same thing, harder than should be possible without magic. Again a year later I bought the MSX, and just like before, harder than I still thought possible.

To this day I am staggered at how hard our EUC's are. When I got my first wheel - the V5F - I couldn't believe how the machine could almost 'anticipate' lean when it wasn't actually leaning. I think the term 'unbelievable resolution' sprang to mind. To be able to monitor, adjust and apply just the right power to keep the thing perfectly upright under such short time periods and without stuttering/cogging or anything else just amazed me, and still does. I think I expected to feel some 'lean' in the wheel before it did anything, or at least feel the 'cogging' of the magnets in the motor, but nothing. Same with the Z on hardest mode.

I *can* get the Z to tip a little when set to the softest mode so it's nice to actually have the experience of what 'soft' and 'hard' feels like, but I have found that personally I always prefer the hardest setting on any wheel.

Following your comment above, I really do wonder how much harder things can get. My Z feels rock solid on setting zero, but maybe I just haven't experienced anything harder!

Our machines really are amazing bits of tech :)

 

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Does wearing  shoes with soft rubber soles together with thick socks make a difference to how stiff the pedal feels?:)

How about tyre pressure?:w00t2:

Edited by Nic

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Edit: From the V8F review video linked at the previous page, "the V8F power feels closer to a V10F than a V8". So a 1000W wheel feels closer to a 2000W wheel than to a 800W wheel. The math doesn't really work, so the difference must be mostly in differences in the programmed behaviour. 

I would say this is more due to the fact that the v10 never felt like a 2000w wheel, I am afraid. In addition, v8f must have inherited much of the electronics and firmware advances from v10, making behavior more aligned.

A more interesting comparison will be v8f vs 16s, to be fair.

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59 minutes ago, Nic said:

Does wearing  shoes with soft rubber soles together with thick socks make a difference to how stiff the pedal feels?:)

How about tyre pressure?:w00t2:

They do actually! It’s a different feeling. I have experimented quite lot on various small scale shock absorbing techniques, and the only one that feels reminicent of a softer mode is a rocking footplate that’s only bolted tightly at the front, and has sponge rubber blocks under the heel section. Even with that though it’s very easy to tell which mode I’m riding, since the rocking speed is so different.

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That looks pretty sweet. Decent speed and range for the size. And the weight is really nice!

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3 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Official information from inmotionworld.com:

https://www.inmotionworld.com/product/electric-unicycle-inmotion-v8f

Weird coincidence, I was literally on: https://www.inmotionworld.com/product/electric-unicycle-inmotion-v8 less than ~8 hours ago and tried adding an 'F' to the end of the URL ;-) which did not work at the time. Now they've completely taken down the former V8 listing and replaced it with the V8F one at the new URL.

Edited by AtlasP

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The V8 seems discontinued from the Inmotion site.

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I am sure that the owners of the old V8 have already realized that by ordering the inner case from V8F, side covers and pillows from V8F, we get a factory upgrade of the wheel to a higher tire and without any “collective farm”.

So V8 can take from V8F:
- Battery (yeah)
- Side padding (look like just need glue?)
- Inner case.
- Tire (if change inner case)

Not bad :D 

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I was perplexed by that line in the EcoDrift disassembly. That would surely be an expensive and labor intensive process (without even getting the speed improvement) which makes zero sense to me. I could see if you already need to replace the side panels on a V8 (due to scratches/cracks) to replace them with the newer V8F panels instead and get the pads upgrade 'for free'. But swapping out the inner case & tire?--no way. Also while the battery would seem like a simple swap-out upgrade, with being such a minor upgrade and the batteries being *so expensive* by themselves it just doesn't make any sense. As in most cases you're better off just selling the used wheel and buying a new one.

Edited by AtlasP

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Not make sense for new V8, more like for a beat up one.
But just assume that you have a new V8, you can stop worry and just ride your wheel to the end of time, until battery and casing gone bad, just need to buy V8F stuffs to put on, you suddenly has an upgraded wheel :)

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5 hours ago, alcatraz said:

What if the motor is the same but only a control board update?

1000w is a small jump up from 800w.

The additional weight (700g) cannot be explained just by the cell and pedal upgrades, so it likely comes with a new engine.

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17 hours ago, alcatraz said:

What if the motor is the same but only a control board update?

1000w is a small jump up from 800w.

It's definitely a different motor, confirmed in the ecodrift teardown. It even has different internal physical dimensions.

Edited by AtlasP

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10 hours ago, em1barns said:

The additional weight (700g) cannot be explained just by the cell and pedal upgrades, so it likely comes with a new engine.

The original V10 pedals are together ~460g heavier than the original V8 pedals (I had both of them on my scale).

Edited by Mono

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EUCO did a disassembly of the V8f.

Basically the same as the V8, but with improved weather sealing (silicone sealed control board and wheel well). The silicone sealant around the control board may make replacing the control board a little more difficult, but should keep debris out.

The shell has higher ground clearance.

They did not mention anything about the more powerful motor, batteries, control board or firmware.

 

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