EUC Extreme Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I am 42 years, and up to this motorcross. Age is just a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 42 is just a number. 57 not. Let alone 65 and 79. They are honors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag_Rip Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 In the beginning, I separately practiced just "power braking" (the kind where you push the wheel in front of you and lean back) in a quiet street, just so I could do it if I ever had to. Later on when I got the Firewheel, I practiced that again, as it certainly is different between my two wheels. The pedals on the generic will clearly tilt back when doing the power braking, whereas on Firewheel they stay pretty much level, so the technique (ankle position) is different. Also you need to learn how far back you can (and should) lean to make the braking distance as small as possible. I never measured the actual distances, but you can get the wheels to stop in surprisingly short distance if need be and you get the technique right. With the generic, the braking power clearly was much weaker after the battery was more drained, up to the point where I had to be careful not to kick it out from under me in the beginning of the maneuver. Not sure what causes that, as the recordings I did with Vee's MCM2s I had on loan always showed that the braking only causes regenerative power, never using the battery to brake. Never noticed any problem with braking power with the Firewheel, even when the battery was next to empty. If your wheel is like that (the braking power diminishes with the battery being more empty), you need to be more careful (probably the best bet is not to ride it when the battery is less than 25% or something like that). With the Firewheel, on top of leaning back, I can "pump" down with my heels to get short bursts of even stronger braking, although this takes more practice, as it's harder to balance doing that. The motor really "moans" during those hard braking patterns Here's the power curve of the brakings I made with Vee's MCM2s, although I didn't practice braking with it that much, so these aren't as fast brakings as would probably be possible: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag_Rip Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 On 29.10.2015 18:05:10, DiasDePlaya said: For experts: Probably yo can stop very fast if you do a maneuver like skiers, crossing the wheel in front of you. Probably I'm too older to try, but young people can try this. Sorry to bring it up once again, the EUC tries to balance even when you brake like that, so it ends moving back and forth (or say side to side) while sliding, thats very hard to control. And the next issue, if you slide and the wheel gets over 45° angled to one side, it simply turns off and freewheels for safety, there's the next faceplant iminent. Done beating the dead horse, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 3 hours ago, Jag_Rip said: Sorry to bring it up once again, the EUC tries to balance even when you brake like that, so it ends moving back and forth (or say side to side) while sliding, thats very hard to control. And the next issue, if you slide and the wheel gets over 45° angled to one side, it simply turns off and freewheels for safety, there's the next faceplant iminent. Done beating the dead horse, sorry I don't see that there is a way to control a slide on one wheel in either case, wheel on or off, balancing or non-balancing, blocked of free-wheeling. I think the reason why a slide with skies can be controlled is that changing the angle of the ski changes the friction of the rim. Besides, having two skies makes it even easier, though it is fairly doable on one ski as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiasDePlaya Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 3 hours ago, Jag_Rip said: Sorry to bring it up once again, the EUC tries to balance even when you brake like that, so it ends moving back and forth (or say side to side) while sliding, thats very hard to control. And the next issue, if you slide and the wheel gets over 45° angled to one side, it simply turns off and freewheels for safety, there's the next faceplant iminent. Done beating the dead horse, sorry I think that the self balancing help to do this maneuver. To slide is easy with skis because you don't have the problem to balance you side to side, in this case is the wheel who will do the job. 28 minutes ago, Niko said: I don't see that there is a way to control a slide on one wheel in either case, wheel on or off, balancing or non-balancing, blocked of free-wheeling. I think the reason why a slide with skies can be controlled is that changing the angle of the ski changes the friction of the rim. Besides, having two skies makes it even easier, though it is fairly doable on one ski as well. You can slide a mono ski as easier as two skis, you can slide a skateboard too. Why not a EUC? Probably is easier on dirt than on paved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 2 minutes ago, DiasDePlaya said: I think that the self balancing help to do this maneuver. To slide is easy with skis because you don't have the problem to balance you side to side, in this case is the wheel who will do the job. The problem is that you cannot control the slide either way. It's the same with a bike. If both wheels slide for more than a few tenths of a second you are bound to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiasDePlaya Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 10 minutes ago, Niko said: The problem is that you cannot control the slide either way. It's the same with a bike. If both wheels slide for more than a few tenths of a second you are bound to fall. I slide many times bicycles and motorcycles and I can said that you can control a slide, on paved or dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 17 hours ago, DiasDePlaya said: You can slide a mono ski as easier as two skis, you can slide a skateboard too. Why not a EUC? Because an EUC has neither an edge like a ski nor wheels which are not in line like a skateboard. My prediction is that you will not find any inline skater executing a stable power-slide on a single foot, while it is comparatively simple to do for ice skaters. If my prediction turns out to be wrong, I will need to reconsider the problem. 17 hours ago, DiasDePlaya said: I slide many times bicycles and motorcycles and I can said that you can control a slide, on paved or dirt. You do understand the difference between adhesive friction and sliding friction? If the front wheel of a bike goes in full sliding friction (i.e. looses its adhesive friction) for more than a few tenths of a second the bike is bound to fall. Occasionally the rider might be able to save it by taking a foot or a knee on the ground and recover adhesive friction. This might be possible for a power slide with an EUC as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Wouldn't the pedal make a second point of contact for the power slide? It would be a wide point as well, the pedal or side of your foot would be skidding on the ground and the wheel in front of that. Not that I think you would ever want to do this outside of a matrix movie. Just trying to imagine it at high speed if it were done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, Sean said: Wouldn't the pedal make a second point of contact for the power slide? It would be a wide point as well, the pedal or side of your foot would be skidding on the ground and the wheel in front of that. Not that I think you would ever want to do this outside of a matrix movie. Just trying to imagine it at high speed if it were done. The heels or the edge of the pedals scratch the ground all the time, but it normally happens when i am turning with a small eough radius and my body is leaning on one side. Especiall in the comfort or easy mode, when the medals are sort of floating during the turn and dont straighten out fast enough. I dont think it ever happened during braking, if i am braking by leaning sharp straight back. I suppose during the "power" slide this could happen. I still believe the power slide is possible only theoretically on a self balancing unicycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, Cloud said: I suppose during the "power" slide this could happen. I still believe the power slide is possible only theoretically on a self balancing unicycle. We should petition Super @vee73 to do a video of this technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoMarjamaa Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 1 hour ago, SlowMo said: We should petition Super @vee73 to do a video of this technique. Please don't. We pay taxes for public healthcare in Finland and I don't want to pay more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villac Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I think the power slide become more feasible, but still as dangerous on ice or snow. Winter is coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 8 hours ago, SlowMo said: We should petition Super @vee73 to do a video of this technique. 7 hours ago, MarkoMarjamaa said: Please don't. We pay taxes for public healthcare in Finland and I don't want to pay more I dont mind paying to see this on video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I do not know if I understood correctly. But if the speech is slipping sideways. It happens I frequently during the course of one round of the track. One long slide has also become a video in 2:17 specialist track of time at least 3 meters. And stay still standing. Directly acceleration rubber is I slided up to 4 meters distance. And I remained standing. I have insurance EDIT:Sorry the video link was missing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xpxAkr4gfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 4 minutes ago, vee73 said: I do not know if I understood correctly. But if the speech is slipping sideways. It happens I frequently during the course of one round of the track. One long slide has also become a video in 2:17 specialist track of time at least 3 meters. And stay still standing. Directly acceleration rubber is I slided up to 4 meters distance. And I remained standing. I have insurance :) We want a video on how to make an emergency stop sideway style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Such stop is I have quite rare. Very rarely need to brake so hard that starts to slip. Sometimes that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiasDePlaya Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 5 hours ago, vee73 said: One long slide has also become a video in 2:17 specialist track of time at least 3 meters. And stay still standing. This is exactly the maneuver that I described!! Thanks @vee73 I was sure that someone can do it! I will try this maneuver when buy a Msuper in a short future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiasDePlaya Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 On 2/11/2015 19:56:50, Niko said: You do understand the difference between adhesive friction and sliding friction? If the front wheel of a bike goes in full sliding friction (i.e. looses its adhesive friction) for more than a few tenths of a second the bike is bound to fall. Occasionally the rider might be able to save it by taking a foot or a knee on the ground and recover adhesive friction. This might be possible for a power slide with an EUC as well. Off course I understand the difference, I'm mechanical engineer. When young I played with my motorbike blocking both wheels and staying in control many longer than few tenths of a second, from 60 km/h to stop. Very long slides! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlymex Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 When the IPS Xima Lhotz was first released last year, there was a video that a test rider doing back and forth on it. From the attached gif file we can say: 1. backward break is the same as the forward break as far as the EUC is concerned but with added advantage that there are both hands to support the body if fall 2. hard break needs to tilt the body very large as the break force equals the weight times the tangent of the tilting angle 3. the tangent of the tilting angle is also the minimum friction coefficient required to support the break 4. an EUC has its limit when hard break, the pedals will be sink(actually it's till-back as refer to the direction of the EUC) if pushed too hard 5. the sink of the pedals may be caused by BMS cutoff, current limit or over charge/over voltage protection. We once rode downhill when an emergency happened. A very skilled rider on my right hand tried this @DiasDePlaya braking maneuver(or similar) very successfully. Here is the video link:http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTM4OTMzNTEwMA==.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 6 hours ago, DiasDePlaya said: This is exactly the maneuver that I described!! Thanks @vee73 I was sure that someone can do it! I will try this maneuver when buy a Msuper in a short future. I love the video, awesome riding. Very skilful. But didnt the move shown at 2 minutes 17 seconds into the video seem more like regular braking while turning in dirt? At the same time the wheel slid because of the inertia and dirt /mud and made it look like it was the " power slide" ? I am sure it was hard to keep standing and requires a lot of skill but I thought we were describing a deliberate emergency braking by quickly rotating the wheel sideways and braking against the pavement that doesnt move, and the associated sliding friction causing the wheel to stop? This kind of friction can make the rider keel over as opposed to braking in dirt where the wheel doesnt adhere to the soil as much and makes it easier to keep standing. Can this manouver be repeated on the asphalt? Maybe i am confused and what was always implied here is braking in dirt or mud combined with regular braking while turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMo Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 15 minutes ago, Cloud said: I love the video, awesome riding. Very skilful. But didnt the move shown at 2 minutes 17 seconds into the video seem more like regular braking while turning in dirt? At the same time the wheel slid because of the inertia and dirt /mud and made it look like it was the " power slide" ? I am sure it was hard to keep standing and requires a lot of skill but I thought we were describing a deliberate emergency braking by quickly rotating the wheel sideways and braking against the pavement that doesnt move, and the associated sliding friction causing the wheel to stop? This kind of friction can make the rider keel over as opposed to braking in dirt where the wheel doesnt adhere to the soil as much and makes it easier to keep standing. Can this manouver be repeated on the asphalt? Maybe i am confused and what was always implied here is braking in dirt or mud combined with regular braking while turning. I think that the wheel will not stop if not tilted enough and would would continue spinning since the motor runs on inertia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerpentineGX Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I've only had one experience where I had an emergency brake. I was crossing the street at about 12mph and a car was making a left turn into me. I swung my wheel in front of me, pressed hard on the peddles, and hoped for the best. The wheel seemed like it slipped a little (the motor not the tire), which was very uncharacteristic. I was able to stay on my wheel and the car just ended up making a (very) quick U-turn. It happened so fast but, in a way, felt like slow motion. Scared the crap out of me and gave me a reality check. That happened about a month ago. I still think about it. I feel lucky that my wheel didn't cut out as that was the hardest brake I've ever done. Maybe not so lucky next time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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