Scott Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Hi All, Wondering if anyone has any ideas on why my battery range is getting worse? I've had my KS16S for almost a month and a half now and the range has declined significantly. I use it for part of my journey to work every day of the week. When I first got the wheel I was getting a minimum of 35km range sometimes upto 45km on a single charge (depending on how I was riding and the terrain I was on). A number of times within the first few weeks I traveled the whole way to work (~36km) without hitting the speed reduction. The last week or so I'm seeing a maximum range of ~24km and this is when it says 'low battery please charge' (I hit the speed reduction before this point). I can't discern what would be causing this? Tire pressure has remained relatively the same at around 40psi. The temperature hasn't drastically changed. I'm riding the exact paths as I was a number of weeks ago and having to walk several KM's at the end of my journey. Would appreciate any thoughts from those more knowledgeable then myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 It could be a battery (yours has two batteries). One way to diagnose the problem is to open the wheel and disconnect one battery. See how the wheel performs. Then disconnect the other battery (and re-connect the original) and see how that battery performs. Sounds like one of your battery packs failed or, if you're lucky, there's a problem with one of the battery connectors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks @Marty Backe, That does seem like a likely cause. I'll try troubleshooting the batteries and report back with my results. Appreciate the help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 One 16X user here had a failed connector or mainboard, so he was running with just a single battery pack. Word of warning though: If one battery is disconnected or has an intermittent connection, you can’t just plug it in! The batteries must be at the exact same charge level before connecting, or you will get a huge spark, possibly molten connectors or even a battery failure or a fire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted October 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, mrelwood said: One 16X user here had a failed connector or mainboard, so he was running with just a single battery pack. Word of warning though: If one battery is disconnected or has an intermittent connection, you can’t just plug it in! The batteries must be at the exact same charge level before connecting, or you will get a huge spark, possibly molten connectors or even a battery failure or a fire. Good point! What I've done in the past is charge the wheel with one battery at a time and then use a volt-meter to confirm that both batteries are within a few tenths of a volt of each other. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Scott said: I've had my KS16S for almost a month and a half now and the range has declined significantly. I use it for part of my journey to work every day of the week. So you still have warranty? So without opening the wheel you could - measure the no load output voltage of the charger - look at the voltage reported from your app at the end of charging and half an hour later. - log the full charge with wheellog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atdlzpae Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Marty Backe said: One way to diagnose the problem is to open the wheel and disconnect one battery. If you disconnect one battery don't push the wheel! Don't go over steep inclines. And wear full gear. KS16S is designed to have two batteries and with one battery: - You can blow a fuse. I've done it twice when riding up a steep hill. - The wheel has no idea, and so you can overpower it when riding fast. I suffered a really bad cutoff on a straight road without any warnings by riding 27km/h on a 50% battery. Edited October 18, 2019 by atdlzpae 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Exposition to high temperatures at a high charge status can degrade the battery quite rapidly (say, in a trunk of a car in the sun). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 Thank you everyone for the suggestions. As far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be any issue with the battery connectors. I'm unsure and a little bit weary to unplug the batteries individually to test this after the above words of caution. 21 hours ago, atdlzpae said: If you disconnect one battery don't push the wheel! Don't go over steep inclines. And wear full gear. KS16S is designed to have two batteries and with one battery: - You can blow a fuse. I've done it twice when riding up a steep hill. - The wheel has no idea, and so you can overpower it when riding fast. I suffered a really bad cutoff on a straight road without any warnings by riding 27km/h on a 50% battery. As I've still been riding it as usual, including going up steeper hills at max speed, would this suggest that it isn't a failed battery as there haven't been any issues? 23 hours ago, Chriull said: So you still have warranty? So without opening the wheel you could - measure the no load output voltage of the charger - look at the voltage reported from your app at the end of charging and half an hour later. - log the full charge with wheellog Well yes, but one point I've realised I didn't mention was that I did open the wheel a few weeks ago as I got a puncture and had to take off the tire. I assume the fact that I opened it would mean that it is no longer under warranty? (which I think is a bit ridiculous if true. Am I supposed to send it back on warranty every time I get a puncture?). To confirm your steps, I should: Measure the voltage from the charging port Check the voltage at the end of charging (via app) Check the voltage a half hour after that (via app) I don't have wheellog but I've heard of it, what will this do? What should I be seeing in the results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, Scott said: To confirm your steps, I should: Measure the voltage from the charging port ...of the charger. + Check the voltage via app before charging. +Check the voltage immedeately after plugging in the charger. 16 minutes ago, Scott said: Check the voltage at the end of charging (via app) Check the voltage a half hour after that (via app) I don't have wheellog but I've heard of it, what will this do? Wheellog is an android app that can log the data send from the wheel (as they are shown in the ks app). There is by now wheellog, not really actively developed (current maintainer @palachzzz) available at the playstore: Since a couple of days also "euc world" is available at the playstore - the actual wheellog fork maintained by @Seba - it is "combinef" wit his website to visualize/organize the logs: For iphone there is darknesbot - but i have no idea if logging is free? (Have no iphone) With the charging log one can get to something like shown here: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 @scott - and the time from the beginning of the charge until the reported voltage reaches around 67.2V/does not really increase anymore could be helpful. ... but maybe hard to get without logging... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted October 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 19, 2019 @Chriull, I'm seriously considering adding support for some smart plugs (like TP-Link HS110) to EUC World application. In this way it would be possible to actively monitor charger operation. For example when battery gets charged to user-defined level, after reaching specified Wh drawn from the mains or when overvoltage condition is detected. What do you think? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▪Kyle▪ Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 10/19/2019 at 2:42 PM, Seba said: What do you think? Sounds like a charge doctor from the future! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daley1 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 As you are not a technician,it needs to go back to whoever you bought it off.Playing around with the internals will surely void the warranty,As it is only been opened to change a tyre its should not be a problem.If you bought it locally you should only have to pay return shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 Sorry for the delay in results (Another puncture and some travel to blame). On 10/18/2019 at 5:46 PM, Chriull said: So you still have warranty? So without opening the wheel you could - measure the no load output voltage of the charger - look at the voltage reported from your app at the end of charging and half an hour later. - log the full charge with wheellog Here are the results (hopefully I've done this correctly): 20:58 56.5v - 40% bat Plugged in charger 56.7v - 42% bat 01:15 66.1v - 100% bat 01:48 66.5v - 100% bat 06:15 66.5v - 100% bat Never quite made it to 66.7v Appreciate any insight that this gives. Another note that might be worth clarifying is, when stationary the battery might be showing 50% but when riding depending on the load placed on the wheel the battery level might drop down to 25% (introducing the lower speed restriction) and then go back to 50% when stationary again. Not sure if this is normal but thought it might be worth mentioning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) Quote Here are the results (hopefully I've done this correctly): You did, that is good data! If I calculated correctly, to get a 16S4P pack from 56.5V to 66.5V on a 1.75A charger should take exactly 4 hrs (excluding the CV phase), based on which I would say that both battery packs in your 16S are connected and recognized. Since it did charge to 66.5V, it means that there are no dead battery cells. I would have suggested balance charging but I see you already left the charger connected for several hours after it turns green. Next step would be to measure the charger output voltage with a multimeter when the charger is powered on but not connected to the wheel. Quote Another note that might be worth clarifying is, when stationary the battery might be showing 50% but when riding depending on the load placed on the wheel the battery level might drop down to 25% (introducing the lower speed restriction) and then go back to 50% when stationary again. It is normal. 25% drop should require quite an aggressive acceleration though. Edited November 21, 2019 by mrelwood 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 Thanks again for the response, much appreciated. Got a hold of a multi-meter and the charger is putting out 66.1v which seems pretty close to where it should be. My newest theory is that I have a bit of an oscillating issue. I was watching a EUC Video on the weekend and someone was complaining that their wheel was oscillating back and forth whilst riding at speeds, after watching that I realised that mine has been doing that for a long time and potentially this could be causing excessive battery drain? I guess it started doing it when I had only had it for a short period of time and have just grown accustom to it. From a few posts I've read this can be to do with a loose/defective motherboard or sensor? To clarify this is a back to front wobble not side to side. When reaching speeds of ~20km/h + the wheel tends to oscillate back and forth. Probably wobbles 2-3cm each time. I'll try and get a video of it tonight on my way home and you can tell me if this is just in my head or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, Scott said: My newest theory is that I have a bit of an oscillating issue. I was watching a EUC Video on the weekend and someone was complaining that their wheel was oscillating back and forth whilst riding at speeds, after watching that I realised that mine has been doing that for a long time Kind of weird, have KingSong and Gotway programmed the same "bug" in their controller code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 So it's been a while once again. Along with another puncture, my handle gave way and snapped off, so that's been fun. But back to the point, here is a video of the oscillation that I was talking about: Anyway, my battery issue doesn't seem to be getting any better. I hit the first stage of reduced power at ~15km now and am crawling along on low battery by ~20km. This is testing my patience now as I used to be able to go the full distance to work (~35km) without hitting any power restrictions. Now I'm taking the bus part of the way and still limping home on low battery. If I can't get a resolution soon I'll have to send it back under warranty as has been suggested (I'd rather not do this as it will drastically increase my daily commute to work). As always, I appreciate any assistance this community can give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8ps Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Send it back to warranty - I don't think the issue is going to get any better. Sounds like you have a bum power pack and I've never heard of an oscillation issue with the 16S. My 16S easily goes 20 km and I usually only charge it to 90% to save on battery. In fact, I wouldn't ride that wheel at all until you address all these issues. Doesn't look like you wear any protective equipment and a cutout at speed can be very damaging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daley1 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 The ks shouldnt have any front to back oscillation.Your diminished range is not typical for this machine.Send it back !Its not your job to fault find a new machine when u have just spent about $2K .Its a pain but list the issues and send a copy of the video link so they can see what they are dealing with .If the handle broke it might be one of the older models which were fragile and notorious .I,d also demand a new machine .Cant hurt to ask! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meserias Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Scott: don't play with these things, you are risking a lot using the wheel with this front-back oscillation politely, ask your seller for replacement or service also sending this video or other relevant info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 Thanks for the advice. Looks like I'll send off a message and try and get the warranty process underway. I'll keep you update on any progress. On 12/31/2019 at 2:10 PM, gr8ps said: Doesn't look like you wear any protective equipment and a cutout at speed can be very damaging. Thanks for the concern. Whilst I don't wear, knee pads I've got my helmet, motorcycle jacket, motorcycle gloves and kevlar jeans on, I feel that's an adequate level for how fast the KS16S can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Scott said: Thanks for the concern. Whilst I don't wear, knee pads I've got my helmet, motorcycle jacket, motorcycle gloves and kevlar jeans on, I feel that's an adequate level for how fast the KS16S can go. Depends about your way of falling - but normally the knees are the first to touch the ground. Next are the hands (wrist guards). And if an overlean catches one off guard its not a nice sliding experience at first but a hefty impact... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Scott, I hope you get your wheel sorted out. For me it steals most of the fun and the riding experience if I have to worry about anything with my wheel. 5 hours ago, Scott said: I feel that's an adequate level for how fast the KS16S can go. Sometimes I think to myself what would happen if I purposefully fell on my knees or dove/jumped off from the wheel at speed. Even at 25km/h. That’s usually when I start going through my gear with a magnifying glass in case there are places worth improving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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