Head damage + dislocated shoulder

[Seba]

18 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

@Seba I'm sorry I wasn't clear about it. Those numbers are for nationalized, mandatory healthcare. Polish private healthcare is really good, cheap and fast.

The problem is that the same doctor will treat the patient differently in a public hospital than in a private clinic  And private healthcare is good, fast but I wouln't say cheap. This is why it's good to have a separate insurance.

[ir_fuel]

15 minutes ago, Seba said:

The problem is that the same doctor will treat the patient differently in a public hospital than in a private clinic  And private healthcare is good, fast but I wouln't say cheap. This is why it's good to have a separate insurance.

Here it's the same.

Want an appointment with specialist X in hospital Y? No problem sir. You can come in 2 months.

Want an appointment with the same specialist X but now in his private cabinet, not in the hospital? How about next week on Friday at 10am?

I have no problem with that. And it's still pretty cheap all things considered.

[ir_fuel]

18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

In a free liberty (non equality) based society there will be a lot of inequalities. I'm OK with that.

Absolutely, as long as the reasons for inequality are "ok".

18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

8% is a small minority.  Seems strange to mix absolute numbers with percentages. I mean, a 1000 people without insurance sucks for those 1000 people. I think it's best to stick with percentages. If 80-percent of the population has medical coverage that's pretty good in my book.

It's just a pity that you are getting screwed over by the deals between the hospitals and the insurance companies. You could get the same service for a lot less.

It's a complicated balance that has to be found when healthcare should be a universal right (imo), and should not be organised "for profit" as any other business would, yet you want to keep competent people in place and make them earn a good living, since they are doing damn complicated jobs with high risks and responsibilities for some (being a surgeon, for instance).

[mike_bike_kite]

@Marty Backe : My apologies for the digression. It was just when you asked whether the Polish health care situation was because of Communism that I thought a quick injection of reality was needed

[ir_fuel]

Makes me think of a joke I once heard:

Car mechanic complaining to a heart surgeon:

"Life is not fair. When you replace a valve in someone's heart, you earn $5K. When I replace a valve in an engine I get $50"

The surgeon smiled and said:

"Next time, try replacing the valve with the engine running"

 

 

[Circuitmage]

So, regarding the healthcare discussion (as relates to personal injuries);

So yeah...if you  have plenty of money and health insurance, you probably are ok with the way things are. But for most people in this country I am guessing things are viewed as broken.

Personally, while in college, I was on a small motorcycle, 1 block from class, when a woman ran a red light and almost killed me. As a young, poor college student, I had no insurance, no money and no way to pay for 2 weeks in the hospital. The woman received a ticket at the scene, but took it to court where my corrupt lawyer did not show up to, and she got the red light ticket dropped. Anyone with common sense could see that the detailed police report (which I now see they do not do anymore after my wife was hit last year) showed her car spun around 360 degrees and landed on a curb sidewalk in a 30mph zone must have been speeding and I had no time to react. After another 6 months of dealing with a corrupt lawyer (total of 9 months of never returning my calls, not showing up at court, etc) , I finally went to another lawyer. Within 2 months I had a settlement that paid for 1/10 of my medical bills. 2 years later I filed for bankruptcy as my entry level engineering pay could not even cover  the 15%-20% interest the medical billing agencies charge.

I know lots of other stories like this from people I know.

And, having had medical insurance in this country for most of the last 25 years, I still see that it a) does not cover everything, b) still costs more for prescriptions and basic procedures than almost any other country, and c) every single year the premiums cost more than any procedure I actually use (and continue to go up).

So in short, yes, insurance may have helped me when I really needed it, for that 1 hospital visit for 2 weeks, but I could not afford it. And then, when I can afford it, I'm being charged more for having it than for what I really use. 

In my opinion, the healthcare industry is a money making capitalist operation that really does not have health or care in mind. It's all about the $$$, and it one piece of the corrupt, inefficient, broken set of things we have to deal with, or it will be the end of us.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Circuitmage

[LeGiroquoi]

Hope it won't happen to me, but statistically it might happen to me one day!

And if my dream come true, and that the EUC becomes increasingly popular , then just by the number of riders, the more accidents will be reported to the hospitals.

But just the same as with bicycles. The risks are quite the same in my opinion. 

I'm quite glad then that we have public healthcare here in "socialist- equalitarian" Quebec . Even with it's flaws.

I'm okay paying with my taxes so poor people are taken care of, and yes, also paying for dumb idiots too  (which I might even be included one day if I loose my mind and does a brain fart on my EUC)! 

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Eric plam

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Absolutely, as long as the reasons for inequality are "ok".

It's just a pity that you are getting screwed over by the deals between the hospitals and the insurance companies. You could get the same service for a lot less.

It's a complicated balance that has to be found when healthcare should be a universal right (imo), and should not be organised "for profit" as any other business would, yet you want to keep competent people in place and make them earn a good living, since they are doing damn complicated jobs with high risks and responsibilities for some (being a surgeon, for instance).

I'm a Stoic. I believe we are incredibly fortunate to just exist. Anything else is frosting on the cake. So I don't really believe in universal rights. This keeps things nice and simple and allows you to really appreciate life.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

17 minutes ago, Circuitmage said:

So, regarding the healthcare discussion (as relates to personal injuries);

So yeah...if you  have plenty of money and health insurance, you probably are ok with the way things are. But for most people in this country I am guessing things are viewed as broken.

Personally, while in college, I was on a small motorcycle, 1 block from class, when a woman ran a red light and almost killed me. As a young, poor college student, I had no insurance, no money and no way to pay for 2 weeks in the hospital. The woman received a ticket at the scene, but took it to court where my corrupt lawyer did not show up to, and she got the red light ticket dropped. Anyone with common sense could see that the detailed police report (which I now see they do not do anymore after my wife was hit last year) showed her car spun around 360 degrees and landed on a curb sidewalk in a 30mph zone must have been speeding and I had no time to react. After another 6 months of dealing with a corrupt lawyer (total of 9 months of never returning my calls, not showing up at court, etc) , I finally went to another lawyer. Within 2 months I had a settlement that paid for 1/10 of my medical bills. 2 years later I filed for bankruptcy as my entry level engineering pay could not even cover  the 15%-20% interest the medical billing agencies charge.

I know lots of other stories like this from people I know.

And, having had medical insurance in this country for most of the last 25 years, I still see that it a) does not cover everything, b) still costs more for prescriptions and basic procedures than almost any other country, and c) every single year the premiums cost more than any procedure I actually use (and continue to go up).

So in short, yes, insurance may have helped me when I really needed it, for that 1 hospital visit for 2 weeks, but I could not afford it. And then, when I can afford it, I'm being charged more for having it than for what I really use. 

In my opinion, the healthcare industry is a money making capitalist operation that really does not have health or care in mind. It's all about the $$$, and it one piece of the corrupt, inefficient, broken set of things we have to deal with, or it will be the end of us.

In my view health insurance should be like car insurance. Your car insurance doesn't pay for gas, new tires, batteries, oil changes, etc. I think our insurance costs would drop and we would have better coverage if it only paid for the things in life that rarely, and maybe never, happen.

[LeGiroquoi]

I guess our opinions depend of our surroundings, the place we grew on, habits etc.

On my Quebec point of view I think universal health Care is the best way, it's also very simple and gives us less stress thus making place for EUC rides!

But no system is without fails. The Polish guy had problems with they public system, and the other American guy also points out private sector inequities.

But yet I personally think paying for others we don't even know, even paying for idiots that are not "worth" is still the way to do.

Why not the universal right to own an unicycle? That would have the world!

Free unicycles for all!

Edited October 18, 2019 by Eric plam

[marc]

I have read many EUC accidents where people had broken, dislocated shoulders but in many cases no serious hand or knee injuries did happen (the higher from the ground, the more the injuries =>hand & knee less damaged than shoulder). However people insist in protecting hands and knees while they let their shoulders unprotected without shoulder pads. another picture of shoulder pad.

And since full breast protection or motorcycle jacket is too complicated to wear, people avoid shoulder protection.

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by marc

[Rehab1]

55 minutes ago, marc said:

I have read many EUC accidents where people had broken, dislocated shoulders but in many cases no serious hand or knee injuries did happen (the higher from the ground, the more the injuries =>hand & knee less damaged than shoulder). However people insist in protecting hands and knees while they let their shoulders unprotected without shoulder pads. another picture of shoulder pad.

And since full breast protection or motorcycle jacket is too complicated to wear, people avoid shoulder protection.

 

 

I wish their were a foolproof method to protect the complex anatomy of the shoulder during a accident. There are simply to many range of motion allowances that the joint can perform. 

I hate beating a dead horse to death but I assume their are many new members that are not familiar with my accident so here’s a compendium: 

My humeral head was pulverized into countless fragments last year after impacting my elbow on asphalt at a high velocity when I fell.  The forces then translated up the humeral shaft to the head. 
 

Unfortunately I have not found or invented any device that would have redirected those forces except for removing my spiked pedals. 

Being my occupation involves creating specialized devices (orthoses) for patients suffering from musculoskeletal and neurological deficits I have experimented with various designs both before and initially after my accident.

Below is a humeral fracture brace that I applied after the accident which I thought might offer some adequate compression through the surrounding tissue to help absorb and diminish any future impact. This was before I met with the ortho surgeon and found out the true biomechanical insult that caused the injury. 
 

Leading up to the accident I had experimented with full gear but none of this protective apparatus would have saved my shoulder.

I even modified my titan elbow pads to included customized shock absorbers designed with specialized shock absorption foam sandwiched between the existing exoskeletal framework of the elbow pads and a silicone shielded outer layer. 
 

This was my final attempt to create a protective device that would help diminish the forces that originally caused my fracture. 

If anyone wants to their share ideas on how to fully protect the shoulder after an elbow impacts the ground at a high rate of speed please feel free reply. 

Aside from properly rolling out of a bad situation (best idea)  or wearing a full body cast with groin straps to avoid upward displacement I have not found the answer. 
 

[atdlzpae]

@marc
I'm pretty sure that only an exoskeleton would be a foolproof protection for the shoulder. Perfectly fitted to a person's size and range of movements.
My shoulder wasn't hit at all, instead my arm was forced outside of my range of movements. Simple pads wouldn't help here at all.

Wrist guards and knee pads are essential because they get hit during every face plant. Road rash on hands is brutal.
Helmets are important, because you it will prevent a fatal injury one day. You may not need them first 100 times, but 101 will save your life. Compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjbFhu-lSa4 to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVZz8EN_NKw (three similar situations, last one without a helmet).

 

51 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

My humeral head was pulverized into countless fragments last year after impacting my elbow on asphalt at a high velocity when I fell.

A full upper body aluminum exoskeleton would prevent this injury. Available to buy in 50 years.

[Rehab1]

33 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

A full upper body aluminum exoskeleton would prevent this injury. Available to buy in 50 years.

 An upper extremity carbon graphite exoskeleton could be accomplished at the present. Even 3D printing could be utilized. 

The dilemma is” how much money do you wish to spend” and is it worth it to ride  around with over- componentized protective gear that becomes so labor intensive to donn that it never gets worn? 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I still think well padded elbow pads like hockey players use might help cushion the forces transmitted from the elbow up to the shoulder during a fall.  They take shoves from behind and faceplant routinely only to get up quickly without fail.  I think the pad has to be thick enough to absorb and decelerate things slowly enough to avoid injury.  

Imagine carrying a mini mattress in front of you while riding.  The wheel stops suddenly,  and you go flying to land on your forearms on the mattress and skid to a stop.  That cushion should be able to absorb the downward forces enough to avoid bone fractures.  Localize that cushion to the elbow and forearms, and we should see a lot less severe shoulder injuries.  Someone needs to develop and market an elbow/forearm skid pad specifically for our sport!  @The Fat Unicyclist - make it so!  

Edited October 21, 2019 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[atdlzpae]

Actually, such a suit is theoretically possible. A suit made of airbags. During a crash it calculates every 1ms WTF is going on and actively countermeasures it.
For example if the elbow is gonna get hit, it could adjust the pressure just right to decrease the max value of strain...

Update:
One of two over-strained muscles [the move-my-hand-to-the-other-side-of-the-body-one] recovered enough so that I can touch other shoulder without help. Very useful.
Second one [rise-hands-up] is still useless, but progressing well. I am able to raise my hand 45°, albeit with a lot of pain. Not useful, but it's nice to see progress.

Overall, a good crash. Scary enough to teach lessons, but not to scar too much.

[LanghamP]

On 10/19/2019 at 10:11 AM, Rehab1 said:

If anyone wants to their share ideas on how to fully protect the shoulder after an elbow impacts the ground at a high rate of speed please feel free reply. 

Aside from properly rolling out of a bad situation (best idea)  or wearing a full body cast with groin straps to avoid upward displacement I have not found the answer. 

At my first Parkour class it was constantly drilled into us, again and again and again, ad nauseum, to keep the elbow up, palm out, and thumb pointed downward as far as possible. And then we dived headfirst into grass, then pads, then onto bare concrete, at first level but then from over a fence. Terrifying, and painful, yet I had not even a bruise.

In my opinion, trying to protect the shoulder without training the reactions to do "elbow up, palm out, thumb down" is an endeavour bound to at least partially fail. No shoulder equipment can stop the full force of a porky 210 pound man (me) but you can move those forces over a longer period of time over other more suitable parts of your body.

[ir_fuel]

On 10/18/2019 at 9:19 PM, Marty Backe said:

I'm a Stoic. I believe we are incredibly fortunate to just exist. Anything else is frosting on the cake. So I don't really believe in universal rights. This keeps things nice and simple and allows you to really appreciate life.

And I believe we live in a society where some things should be provided, with a decent level of quality, by the government. These things are healthcare and education, since good health and a good education is the basis to a good life. All the rest follows from this.

I don't understand how one can speak of equal opportunities in a country when those 2 things aren't covered. If people have to worry about medical bills or paying their education (not even talking about college), how can you expect everyone to have the same chances of developing a good life.

[ir_fuel]

On 10/18/2019 at 9:26 PM, Marty Backe said:

. I think our insurance costs would drop and we would have better coverage if it only paid for the things in life that rarely, and maybe never, happen.

I think your insurance costs would drop if it weren't organised as a for-profit organisation as it is right now. It's just one big money grab, at a point in life where people usually don't have a choice (I presume nobody goes to doctors and hospitals because they like to).

And then we come on the slippery slope of "what are things that rarely, or never, happen"

The flu? Nothing you can do about it anyway besides wait for it to pass.

Broken bones? Too common.

Diabetes? Hmm, plenty of people have that.

Cancer? One out of three people get cancer. So not something that rarely or maybe never happens.

 

What's left?

 

[ir_fuel]

8 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

Actually, such a suit is theoretically possible. A suit made of airbags. During a crash it calculates every 1ms WTF is going on and actively countermeasures it.
For example if the elbow is gonna get hit, it could adjust the pressure just right to decrease the max value of strain...

Like in motogp

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

And I believe we live in a society where some things should be provided, with a decent level of quality, by the government. These things are healthcare and education, since good health and a good education is the basis to a good life. All the rest follows from this.

I don't understand how one can speak of equal opportunities in a country when those 2 things aren't covered. If people have to worry about medical bills or paying their education (not even talking about college), how can you expect everyone to have the same chances of developing a good life.

This is the crux of the matter: some people expect society to take care of them and some don't.

I don't believe in equality. I believe in liberty and that guides my philosophy of life.

[LanghamP]

7 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

And I believe we live in a society where some things should be provided, with a decent level of quality, by the government. 

I don't understand how one can speak of equal opportunities in a country when those 2 things aren't covered. If people have to worry about medical bills or paying their education (not even talking about college), how can you expect everyone to have the same chances of developing a good life.

Baby Boomers, presumably like @Marty BackeBacke, have no interest in equal treatment. Their government debt-fueled healthcare works well for them. There's too many people, not enough health care, and Medicare is one way of funneling most dollars (private and public) to ensure people like him (not sure of his age) get medical care. Same with education; their education was cheap or free, and so Baby Boomers mock Millinials for their intractable situation. While taxing them heavily.

Funneling any dollars towards the older generation is what Baby Boomers do, and if that requires impoverishing the next generation with huge taxes and debt, so be it.

Here's an excellent article about how laws favor the Baby Boomers.

Below, I show a reasonable projection of the share of national income that will have to be spent paying for these obligations in the future if there is no substantial restructuring of liabilities. It’s based on consensus forecasts from groups such as the Congressional Budget Office and the Office of Management and Budget for economic growth and for programs such as Social Security and Medicare where such forecasts are available—but in some cases, such as state debts and pensions, no such forecast was available, and so I developed a simple one.

@Marty BackeBacke is just the latest slave owner on the plantation telling some indentured black dude he needs to man up and become part of the upper class through dint of hard work, all the while ignoring the laws that put him there in the first place (or worst yet, quoting this situation as liberty when it's the exact opposite). I personally think it's one of the more unsavory aspects of almost all Baby Boomers I've met. Maybe Logan's Run had the right idea. If the US was so Liberty oriented, then why are there so damned many laws constraining Liberty?

Edited October 21, 2019 by LanghamP

[fryman]

16 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Baby Boomers, presumably like @Marty BackeBacke, have no interest in equal treatment. Their government debt-fueled healthcare works well for them. There's too many people, not enough health care, and Medicare is one way of funneling most dollars (private and public) to ensure people like him (not sure of his get) get medical care. Same with education; their education was cheap or free, and so Baby Boomers mock Millinials for their intractable situation. While taxing them heavily.

Funneling any dollars towards the older generation is what Baby Boomers do, and if that requires impoverishing the next generation with huge taxes and debt, so be it.

Here's an excellent article about how laws favor the Baby Boomers.

Below, I show a reasonable projection of the share of national income that will have to be spent paying for these obligations in the future if there is no substantial restructuring of liabilities. It’s based on consensus forecasts from groups such as the Congressional Budget Office and the Office of Management and Budget for economic growth and for programs such as Social Security and Medicare where such forecasts are available—but in some cases, such as state debts and pensions, no such forecast was available, and so I developed a simple one.

@Marty BackeBacke is just the latest slave owner on the plantation telling some indentured black dude he needs to man up and become part of the upper class through dint of hard work, all the while ignoring the laws that put him there in the first place (or worst yet, quoting this situation as liberty when it's the exact opposite). I personally think it's one of the more unsavory aspects of almost all Baby Boomers I've met. Maybe Logan's Run had the right idea. If the US was so Liberty oriented, then why are there so damned many laws constraining Liberty?

Your racist opinions has no place here.  Take it to another forum.

[ir_fuel]

2 minutes ago, fryman said:

Your racist opinions has no place here.  Take it to another forum.

What exactly is racist in his text?

[meepmeepmayer]

Can't argue with @LanghamP here. And as far as he has racist opinions (I can't argue either that there were some... statements at least), this isn't one of them

No fighting please. I don't want to split this off into another healthcare discussion because the posts are intertwined with the original topic. Be nice.