Jump to content
mrelwood

CST C-186 tire review (MSX)

Recommended Posts

omgoodness yes this is what I've been looking for and excellent review.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say huge thanks to @mrelwood for sharing that information.

I would say for me that it even improved the nimbleness of the wheel at low speeds versus the original MSX tyre.

And incredibly reassuring at high speed or in offroad.

I could have lost a bit of range, but maybe just because i'm pushing the beast a bit more than before ?!

 

And just been afraid while going over a kind of metal grid on the ground, where the tits liked to go in the holes and align suddenly ;)

 

But this wheel guys now... it's the ultimate wheel !

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

I say huge thanks to @mrelwood for sharing that information.

I would say for me that it even improved the nimbleness of the wheel at low speeds versus the original MSX tyre.

And incredibly reassuring at high speed or in offroad.

I could have lost a bit of range, but maybe just because i'm pushing the beast a bit more than before ?!

 

And just been afraid while going over a kind of metal grid on the ground, where the tits liked to go in the holes and align suddenly ;)

 

But this wheel guys now... it's the ultimate wheel !

 

This is the ultimate wheel!!!! I had to upgrade 5x to get this wheel. I kept wanting more and more power and speed.

Edited by Eddie G.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

I would say for me that it even improved the nimbleness of the wheel at low speeds versus the original MSX tyre.

I find the effect in nimbleness to be twofold: The decreased resistance to twisting indeed allows for some very nimble manoeuvres, but on the other hand it doesn’t turn as effectively by tilting, requiring more tilt for the same amount of turn. A bit like how a narrower tire behaves.

6 hours ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

And incredibly reassuring at high speed or in offroad.

Exactly!

6 hours ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

I could have lost a bit of range, but maybe just because i'm pushing the beast a bit more than before ?!

Oh yes, forgot to write about the range. Added to the original post.

6 hours ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

But this wheel guys now... it's the ultimate wheel !

MSX with a C-186 does make for a beast of a machine, that’s for sure! I’m at loss wether I could ever downgrade to another wheel. Unless it can also fit the C-186 that is...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/14/2019 at 6:49 PM, mrelwood said:

When I start to lean into a turn, the wheel stays upright at first, but as I continue the turn, the wheel slowly starts to tilt. Once I ride straight again, the wheel stays tilted at first before slowly getting back in the upright position.

Excellent review! I totally agree with all of your comments. :thumbup:

I’m thinking I will return to the original tyre in Spring to regain the more responsive carving that this tyre cannot provide. I love the CST for all the reasons you’ve stated above and it will be a fun Winter that’s for sure.

I’ve been experimenting again with the staggered stance which I had previously abandoned. I found it never added any additional acceleration or braking power, maybe because I’m 210lbs with big feet on stock pedals so never found this to be a problem. Anyway, I’ve come to appreciate this stance more with this tyre on the MSX. It really helps me “boss” it around which IMO is needed to speed up the delayed tilt you refer to.

What have you had to change @mrelwood in your riding style to adjust to this beast?

I’d be keen to hear your discoveries having covered a fair few Km’s.

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, RoCan said:

I’m thinking I will return to the original tyre in Spring to regain the more responsive carving that this tyre cannot provide.

If you are going to swap between a winter and a summer tire, I strongly recommend you go through the trouble of installing the H-666 as the summer tire! Especially if carving is what you want to do. I never imagined going through corners on any EUC as fast as I could with that one.

 

2 hours ago, RoCan said:

What have you had to change @mrelwood in your riding style to adjust to this beast?

As you can see from the photos, I ride on those huge bigfoot pedal extensions, so I have no trouble throwing it around. Only thing that I think I will develop further is tight cornering. I do sometimes ride staggered, but that is to alleviate foot pain which I am prone to during long rides.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good call @mrelwood

 

From a five minute ride - primary stability seems weaker than stock but there’s a ton of secondary stability.

 

I’ll be taking it out for a longer ride during the week to give it a real test.

E13E8571-3B82-49C8-A0C0-7C86E52AEB30.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perfect tire. Thank you for pointing to the model :thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the SR244 on my 100V MSX.  It's actually 20.5" outer-diameter as it sits.  I've gotten used to it with 400 miles on it, though I am tempted to switch to the CST C-186 in the spring.  For winter I'm good with my SR244.  So the good of the SR244 are the good traction like you describe.  Its bad is the over-diameter and width that 1st made it such a PITA to install.  Now having about 300 miles on it, I can say the wheel treats me like I'm heavier than I am and that the wind is stronger than it is making more commanding it for yet more speed is harder (adjust forward, etc).  Its also slightly less torque'y and worse, less jerky (derivitive of acceleration) than before the change.  My e+ is more jerky than the MSX so going smallest diameter with a knobby appears to me the best option... so now I'm shopping for a CST C-186!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

My e+ is more jerky than the MSX so going smallest diameter with a knobby appears to me the best option... so now I'm shopping for a CST C-186!

The large tire diameter means that you have to lean that much more for the same amount of ”pressing the gas pedal”. The MSX is the second largest wheel available, and it will always require a much steeper lean to keep up with the smaller EUCs. Increasing the pedal length in the same ratio (16.5”-> 20.5”) would even out the battlefield quite a bit.

The C-186 is already notably larger than the original, so going from the Shinko to the C-186 would likely not give you what you wish. I would actually consider a 2.50-14 ”Minicross” tire, as it might be the smallest one you can find for an MSX. We recently installed one on @UniVehje’s 18XL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The large tire diameter means that you have to lean that much more for the same amount of ”pressing the gas pedal”. The MSX is the second largest wheel available, and it will always require a much steeper lean to keep up with the smaller EUCs. Increasing the pedal length in the same ratio (16.5”-> 20.5”) would even out the battlefield quite a bit.

The C-186 is already notably larger than the original, so going from the Shinko to the C-186 would likely not give you what you wish. I would actually consider a 2.50-14 ”Minicross” tire, as it might be the smallest one you can find for an MSX. We recently installed one on @UniVehje’s 18XL.

Yes, exactly!  So can you post here more info on the 2.50-14 tire?  Will it fit my MSX?  I love the SR244 knobby over the stock-street tire... and sometimes appreciate its cushy-squishy balloon-ness... thought the effect on torque as you seem to recognize makes a smaller knobby option worth trying... this winter in snow, and mud and mud in spring :D:D:D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Yes, exactly!  So can you post here more info on the 2.50-14 tire?  Will it fit my MSX?

I’m certain that all 2.50-14 tires will fit on the MSX. In my understanding ”Minicross” is just a certain type or size of kids’ motocross bikes, and for example a local second hand sales portal even has many unmounted 2.50-14 Minicross tires for sale for very cheap. All with the exact same knob pattern even.

What I didn’t like about the used one I got was that it required a lot more active style of riding on faster stretches of pavement. I love that on the regular tires (and pretty much on the C-186 as well) I can relax at speed as the MSX will be very stable and doesn’t care if I move around to stretch my feet or even change my position a bit. I wasn’t able to do that on the specific Minicross tire, since the placement of the rows of knobbies left an empty area next to the row of the sidemost knobs, so it behaved like a much narrower tire.

I would check if you can find a Minicross tire that has a more uniform pattern of knobbies. If you do, it would surely be a nicer ride.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve swapped back to the OG tyre last night.

 

Probably going to order the h-666 for next year.

 

the knobbly tyre just removed a little of the fun and loose-ness of the riding for me.

 

super easy to swap out on an MSX :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, HippoPig said:

I’ve swapped back to the OG tyre last night.

I’m sorry to hear it didn’t work for you, but I do understand why. I’m at a point where riding the C-186 is very natural, but there are rare occasions where I miss the H-666. The carving on that tire was perfect for me.

After seeing a video of @EUC Extreme making a knobby tire out of a H-666, I might try that after the winter as well. Not as radical though, just small cuts in the center ridge to have it grab slightly better in extreme conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/18/2019 at 10:07 PM, mrelwood said:

I’m sorry to hear it didn’t work for you, but I do understand why. I’m at a point where riding the C-186 is very natural, but there are rare occasions where I miss the H-666. The carving on that tire was perfect for me.

After seeing a video of @EUC Extreme making a knobby tire out of a H-666, I might try that after the winter as well. Not as radical though, just small cuts in the center ridge to have it grab slightly better in extreme conditions.

It was pretty amazing on wet mud etc - but I’ve found I don’t ride it on that sort of surface / in that sort of weather enough to justify the loss of fun carving.

 

I carve constantly when riding in a straight line, and though it was carve-able - the roll wasn’t quite so linear which I missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just made 10km with C-186.

At 1.5 bar it feels pretty much exactly like stock on pavement when it comes to riding and turning. But dampens more. :)
EDIT: It's definitely easier to turn this tire than with stock. Also, I think that the turning radius decreased somewhat.


I don't carve hard, and I didn't see any difference there. But that's probably because of my riding style - slow and careful.
On a smooth pavement it felt like flying, not riding.

It definitely grips way more! With stock I had to aim at the center of puddles not to slip. With this one it's not that important, it grips the sides way better.

At 1 bar it jerks randomly right-left - very annoying. Thankfully increasing the pressure helped.

I definitely consider this tire an upgrade for anyone who off-roads. B)

 

Does anyone know why is Gotway selling such a slippery tire by default?

Edited by atdlzpae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CST C-186 2.75-14

I want one but I can't find one :(

@Jason McNeil : any suggestions about how to inquire to the Chinese distributors about supplying this tire to the US?
(Or, I would gladly pay a markup if EWheels could make the buying process easy by expediting it ;))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@RagingGrandpa Please ask the seller if he'll ship to the US: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tyre-Cst-Cheng-Shin-2-75-14-35P-Tt-C-186-Enduro-72630851/274015311737?hash=item3fcc95d779:g:no0AAOSwTg5dx1lW#shpCntId

Alternatively, I could buy and ship them to the US... But that's a last resort due to a double shipping fee. :)

Ps. It's nice to have something unavailable in the US for a change... B) Usually it's the other way around.

Edited by atdlzpae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

Please ask the seller if he'll ship to the US: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274015311737

Thanks

It's this store:  https://www.motorrad-ersatzteile24.de/motorrad-zubehoer/nach-baugruppe/reifen-und-felgen/reifen/reifen-14-zoll/reifen-14-zoll-2.xx/74830/reifen-cst/cheng-shin-2.75-14-35p-tt-c-186-enduro

Ebay message inbox full :( 
The web store doesn't show the US (Ver...) or Canada (Kan...) in their country list when I attempt to check out, so I'm betting the answer is "no"...

But actually, I can call in a favor from a neighbor who's visiting the fatherland over holidays, good thought, thanks for the link.

There's got to be more than one of me here in the US though... lots of MSX owners would love a cheap dirt tire that doesn't require trimming...

Edited by RagingGrandpa
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

64.86€ ??? Holy shit, that's expensive. :) On ebay.de it goes for 35€ with free shipping across Europe.

Ask this seller, it's a different one: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Enduro-Reifen-CST-C-186-2-75-14-35P-4PR/283599111384?epid=1725420867&hash=item4207d304d8:g:oDsAAOSwzttdxJ51
I actually bought from him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

I just made 10km with C-186.

At 1.5 bar

*shrugs* You might want to put some air in there! Any tire will eventually rip if it flexes too much. I like a softish tire myself but I’d consider 1.5 bars suitable for just trollying the wheel without a rider... I weigh 100kg and I settled at 2.4 bars. 2.2 is passable for me but already quite soft. Maybe try 2.0 bars if you are a light rider?

 

12 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

Does anyone know why is Gotway selling such a slippery tire by default?

I guess it doesn’t rain in China. :P

18x3.0 is a rare size for (e-)bike tires, and there still aren’t many choices available. C-186 is a full-blown motorcycle tire and not the best universal choice imo. H-666 would’ve been a killer though, and it is available in 18x3.0. Could be that the width would’ve required extra work with the shell design. Or it would’ve cost $1 more. Or maybe they just didn’t test the original very thoroughly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

*shrugs* You might want to put some air in there! Any tire will eventually rip if it flexes too much.

I'll make it an experiment for now. :) If it rips and I faceplant, it (hopefully) won't kill me.
My MSX has a mileage of 2200km. Pressure is 1.5bar. My weight is 120kg.
I'll report when it rips. :thumbup:

Edited by atdlzpae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

I'll make it an experiment for now. :) If it rips and I faceplant, it (hopefully) won't kill me.
My MSX has a mileage of 2200km. Pressure is 1.5bar. My weight is 120kg.
I'll report when it rips. :thumbup:

Wow... That is a kind of a risk I'd never take while riding. You are lucky that you haven't bent the rim from an unnoticed rock or a pothole, or even lost control of the wheel in a surprise situation. Just the other day a Z10 owner found his tire being torn beyond repair due to riding with too little pressure, that's why I mentioned it.

If you ever want to learn to reverse or pendulum, you may want to end your "experiment"...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...