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skautas2003

Kingsong 16X is it safe to use in heavy rain

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Thank you Michael for posting here.  

 

To Summarize Michael Shen from KS (it's the same things I have been saying):

-KS16x is great wheel for under 40 km/h, acceleration to 40 km/h is great.

-Don't ride KS16x in rain.  

-Overall still a great fun wheel up to 40 km/h, in the future they will take customer feedback and make a better wheel with things customers want

 

What he didn't say that I've been saying:

-If you want a safer wheel at more than 40 km/h (24 mph), look at the GW nikola.  Better top end acceleration/speed, and pedals stay flat.

-the panels have no overlap, it's plastic against plastic and no seals that I saw at least.  LEDs have no protection against water/dust, you can stick your hand in and feel the LEDs.  3rd batch may have better seals, 1st and 2nd batch buyers out of luck.  But I don't see how they can solve the LED being open problem, that's just the design.

-Firmware still needs tweaking, app is glitchy still, and quality assurance and checks need to improve 

 

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8 minutes ago, photorph said:

Thank you Michael for posting here.  

 

To Summarize Michael Shen from KS (it's the same things I have been saying):

-KS16x is great wheel for under 40 km/h, acceleration to 40 km/h is great.

-Don't ride KS16x in rain.  

-Overall still a great fun wheel up to 40 km/h, in the future they will take customer feedback and make a better wheel with things customers want

 

What he didn't say that I've been saying:

-If you want a safer wheel at more than 40 km/h (24 mph), look at the GW nikola.  Better top end acceleration/speed, and pedals stay flat.

-the panels have no overlap, it's plastic against plastic and no seals that I saw at least.  LEDs have no protection against water/dust, you can stick your hand in and feel the LEDs.  3rd batch may have better seals, 1st and 2nd batch buyers out of luck.  But I don't see how they can solve the LED being open problem, that's just the design.

-Firmware still needs tweaking, app is glitchy still, and quality assurance and checks need to improve 

 

I opened this topic about KS 16x ability to ride in rain and you start to advertise GW nikola Why? Is there question about who is better?

Is it better margin from gotway?  As I understand you represent distributor so you can have some bias in this case. And if return to main question do you confirm that i can ride GW Nicola + in heavy rain without any issues?

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2 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

Also we will invite more Kingsong users to participate in wheel requirement investigate, for designing and improving a better wheel in future.

I also ride 1st batch KS-16X, and still enjoy it every day, especially fast acceleration from 0~40km/h.

I am not unhappy about my wheel at all. How it rides or how it performs. I think that is brilliant. 

But I do think that KS need to very clear what to expect about weather proofing.

As if dangerous to ride in light rain I don't think so, as long you do not ride on limits. Same as you in a car adapt driving to conditions. I don’t ride as fast, not on metal covers and very cautious on markings on the road. 

I do think that is a market for KS to consider, as there is little choice for a true commuter wheel. Read a fully weather sealed KS16X/KS18XL. 

I am not talking drive proof, but at least rain sealed. 

Edited by Unventor

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12 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

The distributor also enquiry my advice about this and send me same photos.

I am sorry for 1st batch bringing troubles to you, also understand that you are a little disappointed about the seller's reply, but engineer's explanation is that the wheel is not designed for riding in the heavy rain or other worse weather.

Also we will invite more Kingsong users to participate in wheel requirement investigate, for designing and improving a better wheel in future.

I also ride 1st batch KS-16X, and still enjoy it every day, especially fast acceleration from 0~40km/h.

I am not unhappy with my seller/dealer. He has done what I expect from an authorized dealer should do.  He helped me arrange to get the wheel to him for investigations. He have asked KS (i expect so at lease) KS on what to do and how to handle this. 

As I understand it a few wheel have had this compared to how many there is sold so far. Yet all those share same story. The repair done as I see it looks to be a temporary job. The way I view it it should not be possible to enter water at the power button area as it had done. 

As for the battery wrapping. It is beyond me how a wrapping inside a wheel can crack like this. Especially when I know how I have handled my wheel. I had 1 time where I have bailed form the wheel at very low speed (less than 5kmh) at a skate ramp. Where the wheel rolled down and then tumbled twice but it was barley scratched on the outside.  If such a tumble can cause such a crack then I must say I am disappointed in build quality. 

Regardless I am expecting the wheel to return to me as the status is repair completed. But I think this thread alone is something KS need to look at. I might have gotten the wrong impression from the above reply. But I had expected more from KS.

And I can see how the GW people now get an easy laugh too, there you go @Marty Backe :popcorn:

Quote

Also we will invite more Kingsong users to participate in wheel requirement investigate, for designing and improving a better wheel in future.

The reason why I didn't want to do this was to give KS a chance to investigate this with their dealer of "long term" history with KS wheels and authorized seller. Rather me doing an inspection on something I don't know what I am look at (well I might, as I work with electronics/it, but not EUCs). 

I might have 1 faulty unit, but the impact could be big, that is also why I didn't want to go out too soon with info before I knew what the investigation lead to. 

So how I go forward?

It only made me realize I need the creative skills of @The Fat Unicyclist and buy an EUC bodybuard for my wheel. It is clear the solution is not coming from KS. 

Edited by Unventor
Added a stronger statement for KS to look into this.

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9 hours ago, skautas2003 said:

I opened this topic about KS 16x ability to ride in rain and you start to advertise GW nikola Why? Is there question about who is better?

Is it better margin from gotway?  As I understand you represent distributor so you can have some bias in this case. And if return to main question do you confirm that i can ride GW Nicola + in heavy rain without any issues?

Do not recommend riding any EUC in rain officially.  One is not better than other, wanted to point out objective differences.  As Michael said KS16x is great from 0-40 km/h.  

Edited by photorph

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I seldomly ride EUC over 40km/h, bcz high speed need higher attention about the surroundings,  no matter I ride KS-18L / KS-16X / Nikola.

It doesn't mean KS-18L / KS-16X / Nikola are not stable when riding speed is over 40km/h. But my personal confortable speed is below 40km/h in greenroad of Shenzhen.

Please do not get me wrong!

Edited by Micheal Shen

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I think it also makes a difference where you ride. I can imagine that the population density and accordingly the traffic is a bit different than here in my village in Germany Lower Saxony Wedemark. The biggest danger here is probably a deer or wild boar that suddenly crosses my path. :w00t2:

I was in China two years ago. Beijing, Shanghai and other places which I can't remember. So I can well understand that you @Micheal Shendon't want to go faster than 40 kmh there. Probably I wouldn't do that there because of the chaotic way of driving.

 

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We have plenty of lovely bike paths here in Sweden. The area where I live is usually quite empty and I try not to do too much riding in the city. If I do I usually stick to lower speeds unless I am pretending to be a car.

I have encoded the relevant part into the link so you can see how easily I get to speed and how stable the wheel is.
The speed is quite correct with the GoPro usually lagging -2kmh. I have cross referenced with the Tesla and MSX.

Regarding riding in rain, year 2019 it is a common expectation and we see plenty of EUC riding in light rain.
Heavy rain is another story.

Of course it would be great if the 16X went faster than 50 kmh, like say 60... but why stop there?
I don't understand the 40 kmh part though... 
 

 

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The assembly video shows how quick and hastily the sealant is placed and spread where all that lovely water and gunk will splash underneath. 

Anyone consider a few coats of plasti-dip in those areas? 

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Dears,

 

I bought my KS 16X September last year. I used it as a commuter vehicle. So I can't choose the weather. In Belgium it rains regularly but not/ seldom heavy rain.

2,5 months ago when I arrived at the train station while breaking/ stopping  my unicycle shut down suddenly. White smoke came out of case. Luckily it did catch fire. I could not start anymore the unicycle and the head light stayed always on.  I took the train back. I was a bit afraid for the battery to catch fire in the train. Something I really not wanted to have.

Arrived at home by feet, the head light was still always ON. It stayed ON   till the battery was empty.

I've contacted my seller. He told I have to send the main board to Kingsong for investigation in order to get a new one.

I understand that I worked many year in the quality assurance in the automotive. But I was really disappointed of the service. Since 2,5 months I could not ride my 2000 euro unicycle. In attempt to reduce down time, I've ordered directly a new mainboard. The mainboard arrived very late, basically this week. 

Today during disassembling to replace the mainboard, I've investigated a bit the issue:

   1) It is clearly a case of water ingress causing short circuit at the level of the main switch.

       See link here below:

        https://imgur.com/FkzymSW

        http:// https://imgur.com/WmYvHqC

        https://imgur.com/YpaSt0Ehttps://imgur.com/rtKnWDxhttps://imgur.com/AQWq6O6https://imgur.com/YHaGKNN   

   2) The short circuit also damaged a main IC on the main board

       See here above the links for the supporting material/ pictures.

 

Kingsong should really look into that. It is easy to solve/ reduce strongly the water ingress. KS is using this white sealing to cope with that partially. But the application of the sealing is not controlled. You can clearly see that when opening the wheel.

Kingsong should identify the weak spot of the case through water proof testing. It is not complex. And adapt their manufacturing process.

It should not even cost more. But a revised application of the sealing already used in their process  would significantly improve the quality of the waterproofing.

Of course if Kingsong has the ambition to deliver quality wheel they should go a step further.

But this is a quick and appropriate containment measure till a more deep investigation and more robust improvement is made (case design/ addition of lip ,...).

 

Please feel free to response to my shared experience/ thoughts.

And I hope to get a serious response of Kingsong.

 

Kind regards,

 

Laurent

 

 

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Mine has dust at on the bottom part of the side panels, partially obscuring the see-through edges where the LEDs go, and it only has 200 km on it. Looking at the disassembly video, it doesn't look like there are any particularly vulnerable components there (aside from connections), but it doesn't yield much confidence in terms of weatherproofing...

Any ideas on improving weatherproofing? I was thinking a dielectric protector spray for connections (both internal connectors and for power/USB plugs) and for the shell edges...so that it isn't an issue when disassembling...What do you think about a thin strip of butyl rubber?

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After having received finally the replacement head light module with the main switch, it's clear on the more recent modules Kingsong has added sealing to the module to avoid water ingress into the main switch itself.  See picture here below.
Headlight module_New and Old

This is typical early model quality sickness. From the countermeasure point of view I hope Kingsong also did something on the casing itself.

After I had disassembled to repair, I took also a look into the overall quality   I could see that the casing  was reworked. It looks like Kingsong was still tuning their plastic molding process at the time of the manufacturing of my unicycle.

Now my Kingsong 16X is back alive. What a pleasure to see, hear and feel ;-) 

For the waterproofing and mainly protection, I've ordered bodyguard from "Roll.nz".

But due to COVID-19 situation, it will arrive later than planned.

Tomorrow I'm sending the mainboard and headlight module to the seller/ kingsong for warranty.

I'll see how that goes...

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