RockyTop Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, eddiemoy said: WE don't vote for our president directly. This is all an illusion. There is so much corruption. There is a good reason for that. Lets say you have a state that permits non US citizens and dead people to vote as many times as they want. That type of corruption would be contained to that state. You can vote as many times as you like with more dead people voting than people that live in the district and it will NOT effect the vote of people in another state. Plus it gives smaller states some say in the election. A full democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for supper. We live in a Republic. You can't vote certain rights away. 12 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Communism and democracy are like water and oil. They just don’t mix well, but they can coexist along side of one another. Not quite. A family unit is communist. Our military is even kinda communist. The communist and socialist system loses its positive effectiveness when you don't know every person in the group. A communist group needs to have a common goal and see that everyone is working to that goal. It works best when you can complain to the person that is holding you back. Instead communism either becomes a competition to prove how useless you are so you can get the things you need without working {uncle Roy) or strict and over powering like North Korea I like to share ...... but I would rather share with the people that I choose and only certain things. For this reason I will continue to support capitalism. Edited October 13, 2019 by RockyTop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 3 hours ago, eddiemoy said: I’ve seen this happen in many places where you have a peaceful protest and a small group is paid to do violence. The violence allows for the use of force to shut things down. I don’t know the reason behind why we don’t allow direct voting, it shouldn’t be this way. We elect everything else directly. I thought you were of the generation that was still taught civics in grade school And as an adult there are fantastic resources for learning the reasoning that our forefathers had in establishing our government and how it works. One word to start your search: Republic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I thought you were of the generation that was still taught civics in grade school And as an adult there are fantastic resources for learning the reasoning that our forefathers had in establishing our government and how it works. One word to start your search: Republic. My question is rhetorical and I don’t agree with the electoral college method. I think we should be allowed to votes for the president directly. 3 hours ago, RockyTop said: There is a good reason for that. Lets say you have a state that permits non US citizens and dead people to vote as many times as they want. That type of corruption would be contained to that state. You can vote as many times as you like with more dead people voting than people that live in the district and it will NOT effect the vote of people in another state. Plus it gives smaller states some say in the election. A full democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on whats for supper. We live in a Republic. You can't vote certain rights away. Fear mongering. One vote per person, doesn’t matter where you live. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Just now, eddiemoy said: fear mongering. One vote per person, doesn’t matter where you live. you don’t even need an ID If you don’t vote someone will vote for you. You can even vote in several states if you pick the right ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, eddiemoy said: I think we should be allowed to votes for the president directly. I completely disagree. The President is much too important of a job to leave to a popularity contest, especially since great bags of money are required and so the president is always beholden to the business class. As we've seen recently with Apple, Google, Facebook, all oil and chemical companies, automobile companies, most apparel companies (see Van sneakers abject groveling to China), most companies in general aren't very good at, say, making a dollar without getting someone killed, although they seem very good at making a dollar when someone gets killed. On the other hand, most people I randomly meet on the street seem fairly decent, so I'd take my chances with randomly selecting from the general population, so long as they graduated from school, don't have a conviction, and aren't mentally ill. If you snort at such a thing, perhaps saying the average populace is dumb, then perhaps that would be a wonderful incentive to overhaul our education system. Edited October 13, 2019 by LanghamP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: My question is rhetorical and I don’t agree with the electoral college method. I think we should be allowed to votes for the president directly. Fear mongering. One vote per person, doesn’t matter where you live. Oh, OK. This is where emoticons can be very useful I'm a big believer in the electoral college. I've heard and read many arguments pro and against. The pro arguments make sense to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, RockyTop said: you don’t even need an ID If you don’t vote someone will vote for you. You can even vote in several states if you pick the right ones. Have you tried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: Have you tried? I have seen it first hand. Voting several times. I have watched as the same person votes several times. You can't stop them because you can't ask for an ID. They vote as themselves then their mom then their friends then any name they can guess off the roll. The roll is not updated so many of the names are of dead people. Voting in several states. If you have ever lived in Florida your name is probably still on the roll and you can vote even ten years after you move elsewhere. I have several friends that left Florida and someone in Florida keeps voting in their name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, RockyTop said: I have watched as the same person votes several times. You can't stop them because you can't ask for an ID. They vote as themselves then their mom then their friends then any name they can guess off the roll. The roll is not updated so many of the names are of dead people. The Liberals of the cities insist on no voter ID checks so they outweighs the Conservatives in the suburbs who exclude anyone who doesn't drive. May I suggest, instead, just randomly selecting political posts, which after all don't require any special skills except to be tall, be good looking, and have shiny white teeth. No math skills, nor education in a STEM field, no critical thinking skills, authorship of peer reviewed papers, or, apparently, any skills of any kind seem a requirement to be a mayor, governor, sheriff, president, or the department head of nuclear energy. Edited October 13, 2019 by LanghamP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, LanghamP said: The Liberals of the cities insist on no voter ID checks so they outweighs the Conservatives in the suburbs who exclude anyone who doesn't drive. They have a bus that will come get you free, or if health is a problem you can vote absentee. They are also working on a person that could come to you and collect your ballot at home. 14 minutes ago, LanghamP said: May I suggest, instead, just randomly selecting political posts, which after all don't require any special skills except to be tall, be good looking, and have shiny white teeth. No math skills, nor education in a STEM field, no critical thinking skills, authorship of peer reviewed papers, or, apparently, any skills of any kind seem a requirement to be a mayor, governor, sheriff, president, or the department head of nuclear energy. On the surface, not a bad idea. I wish the world were so simple. It is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 21 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I don't know @Hunka Hunka Burning Love. Seems like a lot of equating between Communism and Capitalism with what you wrote. I assume you're a relativist? I had to look that up. Relativist? Hmm sounds kinda like me today. Maybe? I try to see varying perspectives on a subject. I was replying in response to China’s reactionary banning of South Park, Winnie the Pooh, and it’s influence on foreign companies and organizations. If companies want to play in China’s sandbox of almost 1.4 billion people, they have to play by their rules. It’s pretty much a given. China isn’t as lenient on expressions of freedom as a democratic country would be. It’s just the communist way I figure. That’s how they run things, and if they can flex their powers they will. Would I want to live in a communist country? No way! But a lot of people do, and they seem to do fine? Shenzhen is thriving. Standards of living are improving. Sure that is not without growing pains, but the industrial revolution in the US was pretty well wrought with pollution. There still are shocking tales of things gone wrong in democratic nations. If things in Communist China were so bad, I think you would see more of an exodus to other nations? Are the owners of Kingsong, Gotway, and Ninebot wishing they could move operations to France or the US? Some companies get government subsidies for operating in China. Taxes seem to be optional for some. Businesses and production are flourishing. Even John Eucist does business across the border. Too bad he’s unable to . People want China’s money and business. Now whether Hong Kong can still do business under communist rule is the big question, but if Shenzhen can, why not HK? Are we seeing revolts in Shenzhen? Is living there that bad? Western businesses seem to be flocking there and enjoying the advantages of cheap production. There must be a way for Hong Kong to do something similar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: things in Communist China were so bad, I think you would see more of an exodus to other nations? What number is greater? 1. McDonalds and Burger King restaurants combined. 2. Chinese restaurants. There is a Chinese Exodus. Some Chinese like China, some do not. My suspicion is HK has destabilized itself by allowing mainland Chinese to park their money in tax free property in HK. Alleviate the housing crisis and everyone will calm down. Don't, and watch democracy flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Apple sends web browsing data of Chinese people (presumably Apple has figured who is Chinese and who isn't) back to the Chinese government. https://gizmodo.com/safari-in-ios-13-sends-chinese-users-browsing-data-to-c-1839029218 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) If it's for the good of the people and the country, it's probably okay to do. At least Snowden has a communist country to find safe haven. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/06/phone-camera-microphone-spying https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/us/politics/nsa-surveillance-2017-annual-report.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/sep/13/edward-snowden-interview-whistleblowing-russia-ai-permanent-record Edited October 16, 2019 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 3:01 AM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Now whether Hong Kong can still do business under communist rule is the big question, but if Shenzhen can, why not HK? Are we seeing revolts in Shenzhen? Is living there that bad? Western businesses seem to be flocking there and enjoying the advantages of cheap production. There must be a way for Hong Kong to do something similar? It's not because business is going well that private life is going well. Compare the amount of hours per day and days in a month a Chinese factory worker does compared to a US one. And as long as you don't do anything "illegal" life will be good. The problem is that the definition of "illegal" tends to change and can be applied retro-actively. About those revolts ... Do you remember the last time there were revolts in China and how the situation got "solved"? I don't think many people want to try it again. Also look for the amount of people that might cause these revolts and what happens to them before they "do any harm". Also China is not communist. Communist means that there is no private ownership. Pretty strange to match that with people buying Ferraris and Bugattis. It calls itself communist, that's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kens Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 To quote Wikipedia: Quote In what became known as the Tiananmen Square Massacre (Chinese: 天安门大屠杀), troops with assault rifles and tanks fired at the demonstrators and those trying to block the military's advance into Tiananmen Square. Estimates of the death toll vary from several hundred to several thousand, with thousands more wounded 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/13/2019 at 8:41 PM, LanghamP said: May I suggest, instead, just randomly selecting political posts, which after all don't require any special skills except to be tall, be good looking, and have shiny white teeth. No math skills, nor education in a STEM field, no critical thinking skills, authorship of peer reviewed papers, or, apparently, any skills of any kind seem a requirement to be a mayor, governor, sheriff, president, or the department head of nuclear energy. This is a problem everywhere. If I want to do the accounting of a company, I have to be an accountant, preferably with some experience. Becoming responsible for a country's economy? Nah, whatever man, you don't need to know anything about economy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 27 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: This is a problem everywhere. If I want to do the accounting of a company, I have to be an accountant, preferably with some experience. Becoming responsible for a country's economy? Nah, whatever man, you don't need to know anything about economy. Did you have a basic economics and accounting class in primary and secondary school? I thought it was required. Neither economics nor accounting is a hard subject requiring much skill. What does require skill is memorizing all the terms financers use to obfuscate bad financial tools (ie AAA bonds derived from subprime car and home loans). All financers are liars, because their whole job is to convince someone their product is better than reality (see "bubble"). A high school degree holder is far better equipped to handle the country's finances and economics than a financial expert who sits on both a government chair and Bear and Stearns chair, because the financial experts job is to funnel money to his and his friend's wallet (see "2008 gov check writing campaign to banks"). I'd trust you over any financial asshole to do the right thing for public good, because financial assholes are historically so very good at blowing things up for selfish financial gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kens Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Hmm what education? "Meanwhile you need 5 years experience for an entry level management position at Chili's" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 4 hours ago, Kens said: Hmm what education? "Meanwhile you need 5 years experience for an entry level management position at Chili's" I think this is a typical situation of someone from the business class funneling public funds to private for profit companies. However, she is correct about public teachers being overpaid, because the average teacher makes more than the average household income while working fewer hours, with also having a separate pension system. Hey, unions work! While I prefer everyone to be charitable and socially responsible Christians, I also need Christians to scientifically explain how Mary got pregnant without receiving some penile love. Explain that and you can be in public schools; otherwise that's unscientific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, ir_fuel said: It's not because business is going well that private life is going well. Compare the amount of hours per day and days in a month a Chinese factory worker does compared to a US one. And as long as you don't do anything "illegal" life will be good. The problem is that the definition of "illegal" tends to change and can be applied retro-actively. About those revolts ... Do you remember the last time there were revolts in China and how the situation got "solved"? I don't think many people want to try it again. Also look for the amount of people that might cause these revolts and what happens to them before they "do any harm". Also China is not communist. Communist means that there is no private ownership. Pretty strange to match that with people buying Ferraris and Bugattis. It calls itself communist, that's true. I think you can probably say that about any country. Business can be booming, but people can be happy or not. Chinese workers do seem to work more hours per week, but also take a look at the number and length of Chinese holidays. I remember trying to order some items from China right before a month long holiday, and it took three months to get my item! There are times they just shut everything down to allow people to travel long distances to visit home and get back in time. If one worked 57 hours a week instead of 40, but in exchange get a month off every year, it might not be that bad? Please fact check me as I might be out to lunch there, but Googling Chinese worker holiday time results in a mixed bag of information like a week off for New Years, time off for something called Mid-Autumn festival, etc, etc. It would be interesting to compare the number of people killed in riots, murders, etc in China versus the number killed in mass shootings, murders, etc in the United States. Not sure how accurate this link is, but it gives you maybe some basis for comparison. https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/China/United-States/Crime Wouldn't it be better to "disappear" some pedophiles, repeat sex offenders, murders, etc rather than put them into prison to be released later? How many times have you seen on the news someone killing a bunch of people and getting 7 years in jail to be let off for good behavior later on? In China, you better be on your best behavior I'm guessing? A strong deterrent seems to be working for them? I'm no politicologist for sure, but I think China does actually consider themselves communist at heart. They may be embracing capitalism more and more, but fundamentally they belong to the communist camp. Unless they have some serious issues with their naming system? https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chinese-Communist-Party Edited October 17, 2019 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 15 hours ago, LanghamP said: Did you have a basic economics and accounting class in primary and secondary school? I thought it was required. No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I think you can probably say that about any country. Business can be booming, but people can be happy or not. Chinese workers do seem to work more hours per week, but also take a look at the number and length of Chinese holidays. I remember trying to order some items from China right before a month long holiday, and it took three months to get my item! There are times they just shut everything down to allow people to travel long distances to visit home and get back in time. If one worked 57 hours a week instead of 40, but in exchange get a month off every year, it might not be that bad? Please fact check me as I might be out to lunch there, but Googling Chinese worker holiday time results in a mixed bag of information like a week off for New Years, time off for something called Mid-Autumn festival, etc, etc. Imagine having kids (I don't know if you do) and you have the choice between seeing them 2 full days every week (Saturday and Sunday) + a few hours every weekday or seeing them for 1.5 months without interruption but then you won't see them again for 10.5 months? For me the choice is pretty clear. I'd rather work less hours a day and see my kids grow up, instead of "saving up time" and realising they grew 3 inches since the last time I could spend some quality time with my family. 9 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: It would be interesting to compare the number of people killed in riots, murders, etc in China versus the number killed in mass shootings, murders, etc in the United States. Not sure how accurate this link is, but it gives you maybe some basis for comparison. https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/China/United-States/Crime Wouldn't it be better to "disappear" some pedophiles, repeat sex offenders, murders, etc rather than put them into prison to be released later? How many times have you seen on the news someone killing a bunch of people and getting 7 years in jail to be let off for good behavior later on? In China, you better be on your best behavior I'm guessing? A strong deterrent seems to be working for them? This is oversimplifying things. Are you comparing killing sex offenders to putting away people in labor camps because they said something that is not in line with how the government wants you to think? "Your best behavior" is simply nodding yes to whatever you are being told. What country are you living in where you can get in trouble for sharing images containing Winnie the Pooh https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-china-blog-40627855 How trustworthy are those crime numbers, coming from China? Why would they be honest about this? There are countries on this planet where the leadership claims "we have no issues with homosexuals, because homosexuals do not exist here". I have a hard time believing these kinds of numbers, no matter how high or low they are. Also, hasn't the American justice system taught us that "an eye for an eye" apparently doesn't work to keep crime rates low? Apparently even the death penalty does not keep people from killing each other. I am all for severe sentences for criminals, but from a "prevention" perspective, it just simply doesn't seem to help a lot. 9 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I'm no politicologist for sure, but I think China does actually consider themselves communist at heart. They may be embracing capitalism more and more, but fundamentally they belong to the communist camp. Unless they have some serious issues with their naming system? https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chinese-Communist-Party Sure they do, but if you think about "true" communism (what's referred to as "Socialism" in the US), it means that everything is state owned and controlled. This clearly is not the case, otherwise China wouldn't have billionaires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 hours ago, ir_fuel said: Also, hasn't the American justice system taught us that "an eye for an eye" apparently doesn't work to keep crime rates low? Apparently even the death penalty does not keep people from killing each other. I am all for severe sentences for criminals, but from a "prevention" perspective, it just simply doesn't seem to help a lot. China probably has the most school killings in the world. Typically a middle-aged Chinese man will take a knife and kill a bunch of school children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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