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Mike Sacristan

16X battery usage in cold weather

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I just got back from a 43km cruise with my wife and a friend. I was on my 16X. Temperature today was 7C and then 11C. Nice and sunny.

Here are the stats:

Rider: Mike
EUC: 16X
Riding weight: ~70kg
Battery start and stop: 95% - 3% (66v) (also for some reason my 5A charger didn't charge the 16X all the way to 100)
The first 18km took the battery down to 50% and the internal temperature according to Darknessbot was 15C and later on it was 31C.

Rider: Monika
EUC: MSX 84v
Riding weight: ~70kg
Battery start and stop: 97% - 50% (56% after resting)

Rider: Petra
EUC: Tesla
Riding weight: ~60kg
Battery start and stop 100% - 50%

This is the worst range I have ever seen but also the first time we are down to single digits here! I'm gonna try again later and see if it does the same thing.
I expect at least similar battery usage as the MSX.

My battery was down to 60% after 18km and had dipped as low as 47%. We were riding between 30-40kmh and then we slowed down for the remainder of the cruise.

Anyone else living in a cold country with a similar experience? I might need to get my 16X a fur coat if this keeps up.
 

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And so the list of hits on this wheel goes on. Geezzz 

what next?

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1 minute ago, Patton250 said:

And so the list of hits on this wheel goes on. Geezzz 

what next?

Haha yeah man... on the bright side I pumped up the tyre way too much before my cruise and it was really wobbly. At least that way I can get stimulated at lower speeds. :roflmao:

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Posted (edited)

Just wondering, what was the board temperature at the end? According to Marty's hill test the 16x runs 'cool', meaning less heat to warm up the batteries so more effect of cold weather...?

My ACM uses nearly double the battery Wh in <10°C.

Edited by craio

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My batteries are crap in winter also

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Interesting. Either it has different batteries or it runs so cool it doesn’t warm them up as much as the others. 

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19 minutes ago, craio said:

Just wondering, what was the board temperature at the end? According to Marty's hill test the 16x runs 'cool', meaning less heat to warm up the batteries so more effect of cold weather...?

My ACM uses nearly double the battery Wh in <10°C.

Was thinking the exact same thing and suspecting that maybe it is too well ventilated or too much heat dissipation.
Darknessbot was showing 15C when we arrived at Flottsbro after 18km. That is when we were riding the fastest and at 7C with very little sun. After we walked around inside a shop (Biltema) the temp was up to 31C and stayed there for the remainder of the ride which was 10-12C and sunny.

Still... compared to the MSX and Tesla man... [pukes].

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11 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Interesting. Either it has different batteries or it runs so cool it doesn’t warm them up as much as the others. 

I have also considered that it might be a different battery. I guess I will wrap it up in something wind resistant and see!

22 minutes ago, stephen said:

My batteries are crap in winter also

Half as much range as the MSX I was riding with though... shieeeeet.

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1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:


Battery start and stop: 95% - 3% (66v) (also for some reason my 5A charger didn't charge the 16X all the way to 100)
 

Aren't you able to charge battery up to 100%? If so the poor range may be caused to a bad cell.

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11 minutes ago, Eunicyclist said:

Aren't you able to charge battery up to 100%? If so the poor range may be caused to a bad cell.

Thanks, I have considered that.

I have previously charged it to 100%. Last night it didn't charge to 100% though after I put it on my fast charger but at 2A. The fast charger detects the voltage as too high so it cut the charge before it was at 100% and didn't do the trickle. Just now I used the fast charger to get it to slightly over 82v and then I switched to the standard charger so that it can trickle charge and balance.

The drop was huge though and a bad cell shouldn't account for half the range of the MSX.

Will not rule it out though.
Currently at 82.7v charging at 0.31A and it's using around 25W while charging lol.
This should be typical of the last trickle charge. Darknessbot reports 95% battery now.

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31 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

The drop was huge though and a bad cell shouldn't account for half the range of the MSX.

One cell sounds small but it can have a huge effect on range. I’m not sure if it can be half, though. Hopefully balancing helps. 

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Sounds like there is something wrong with your wheel... First thing i would check would be: are really all batteries connected and operational? That's huge gap (vs MSX for instance) you describe, and KS batteries minimum voltage allowed use to be smaller than GW's...

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2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I have also considered that it might be a different battery. I guess I will wrap it up in something wind resistant and see!

Half as much range as the MSX I was riding with though... shieeeeet.

My msx battery goes down alot in winter

I measure the voltage from the charge port using a multimeter to make sure it's 84v on the msx .my msx never read 100% on the app

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Posted (edited)

@Mike Sacristan has it always charged to 84v or you never looked 

24 minutes ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

and KS batteries minimum voltage allowed use to be smaller than GW's...

66v gotway

63v kingsong 16x

Kingsong 18xl is 61v  if i can remember 

When i ride my 16x on empty the other day it went to 60v but that was going 5mph and tilting me back lol

I was on 0% for ages . Hope my cells are ok lol

Edited by stephen

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35 minutes ago, stephen said:

 

66v gotway

63v kingsong 16x

 

Then it makes no sense to get this kind of data (same trip): 

 

Rider: Mike
EUC: 16X
Riding weight: ~70kg
Battery start and stop: 95% - 3% (66v) (also for some reason my 5A charger didn't charge the 16X all the way to 100)
The first 18km took the battery down to 50% and the internal temperature according to Darknessbot was 15C and later on it was 31C.

Rider: Monika
EUC: MSX 84v
Riding weight: ~70kg
Battery start and stop: 97% - 50% (56% after resting)

 

 

 

I bet there is something wrong with your wheel.

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2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Currently at 82.7v charging at 0.31A and it's using around 25W while charging lol.
This should be typical of the last trickle charge.

Where do you read the charge rate? In the King Song App?

At 82,7 Volt charging voltage I still charge, as far as I remember, with full 5A.

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29 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Where do you read the charge rate? In the King Song App?

At 82,7 Volt charging voltage I still charge, as far as I remember, with full 5A.

I have a variable 1-5A charger from 1radwerkstatt, with 80/90/100 cutoff and thermally controlled fan.

I am using the stock charger now to let it trickle.
Kingsong app on iOS seems to round down to nearest full integer so it is showing 83.0v.
Darknessbot is showing 83.56v and 0.32A going in even though the charger is green (this is normal).

My Onewheel once did the same and quit on me at 33% battery left because there was a cell with lower voltage than the others.
Common Onewheel issue and I left it in the charger for 48 hours.

As it has gotten colder in the last weeks I have noticed the range getting progressively worse but nothing this brutal. However this is the first time we are at single digits and the batteries on the 16X could be particularly exposed. Especially at 7C + 40kmh + 6m/s wind.

58 minutes ago, Matthieu Thegrey said:

I bet there is something wrong with your wheel.

Welcome to the forum Matthieu. Bienvenue! :cheers:
Whether something is wrong with my wheel remains to be seen which is why I am asking if anyone has had any similar experiences.
It looks like even @stephen is still enjoying warm weather in England though!
I have trouble understanding how my wheel could be showing 83.57v with batteries not connected?
 

1 hour ago, stephen said:

66v gotway

63v kingsong 16x

Kingsong 18xl is 61v  if i can remember 

When i ride my 16x on empty the other day it went to 60v but that was going 5mph and tilting me back lol

I was on 0% for ages . Hope my cells are ok lol

It's in the speed reduction thread. :)

The cells start at 4.2v.
Gotway discharge is to 3.3V. * 20 = 66V
16X to 3.15V. * 20 = 63V
18XL to 3.0V. * 20 = 60V

Nice round numbers. I'm sure your cells are fine lol. Deep discharge is around 2.5V and we will never get there. :efee612b4b:

I will just wrap everything in foil including my head!

New test tomorrow then. Except it's gonna rain.

 

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11 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I have a variable 1-5A charger from 1radwerkstatt, with 80/90/100 cutoff and thermally controlled fan.

Okay, I have the same. I thought your charger from 1radwerkstatt charges at 5A charging rate from 82.7v only with 0.31A?
The drop from 5A to 0.31A seems a little early to me.

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1 minute ago, buell47 said:

Okay, I have the same. I thought your charger from 1radwerkstatt charges at 5A charging rate from 82.7v only with 0.31A?
The drop from 5A to 0.31A seems a little early to me.

Where are you getting the numbers from? The charger? In my case the V shown is inflated as long as the charger is plugged in.
Have you tried charging and then removing the charger and checking the V with an app? It will drop up to 2V.

I imagined you have the same charger. Location: Germany :clap3:

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28 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

It looks like even @stephen is still enjoying warm weather in England though!

Its 13 degrees at about midday single figures before midday ,, it's all down hill from here lol☹️

 

30 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I have trouble understanding how my wheel could be showing 83.57v with batteries not connected

How you measuring that ,,, with what?

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10 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Have you tried charging and then removing the charger and checking the V with an app? It will drop up to 2V.

Yes I know, I'm already in contact with Chris about this issue. 

I had already sent him a table with charging data to get the best out of the charger. In this state a 90% charge is not possible, no matter if the charging rate is 1A or 5A.

I will send him my charger back soon so he can make adjustments.  

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45 minutes ago, stephen said:

 

How you measuring that ,,, with what?

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Kingsong app on iOS seems to round down to nearest full integer so it is showing 83.0v.
Darknessbot is showing 83.56v and 0.32A going in even though the charger is green (this is normal).

Darknessbot as shown above. It is reliable enough. I remember the whole 100% charge multimeter hell you went through on your MSX. :efee612b4b:

45 minutes ago, stephen said:

Its 13 degrees at about midday single figures before midday ,, it's all down hill from here lol☹️

 

It was 13C yesterday and all was good! October first really started with a bang.

41 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Yes I know, I'm already in contact with Chris about this issue. 

I had already sent him a table with charging data to get the best out of the charger. In this state a 90% charge is not possible, no matter if the charging rate is 1A or 5A.

I will send him my charger back soon so he can make adjustments.  

Exactly. Choosing 90% and then removing the charger leaves it at around 75%. Horror show lol. 80% was even worse.

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@Mike Sacristan I'm not sure if I understood you correctly and so I don't know if this will help you to check your 5A charger. My charger only starts to lower the charge rate from 5A when the charger reads 83.9V. When I turn off the charger, the King Song App shows 81.5V. I think that's right.

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7 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I remember the whole 100% charge multimeter hell you went through on your MSX. :efee612b4b:

Oooh don't remind me ☹️ it's ok now though i guess i gained a bit of experience though 👍

I have a charge doctor to measure my voltage on my wheels , 

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Have you tried charging and then removing the charger and checking the V with an app? It will drop up to 2V.

@Mike Sacristan do you use this charger with the msx  .if yes does the voltage show on the charger when the chargers not plugged into the wall and just into the msx

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Exactly. Choosing 90% and then removing the charger leaves it at around 75%. Horror show lol. 80% was even worse.

Even with 1A charging rate one barely reach 90%. 

But who is buying a 5A fast charger with this function, if you have to use the 1A setting to reaching the 90%? :roflmao:

 

 

Edited by buell47

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