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KS16X latest v1.07 firmware was released

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3 minutes ago, photorph said:


yes I do enjoy riding the wheel, I’m keeping it 100%.  It was just a joke.  But still kingsong really is a pain.  Why don’t they fix these things or do them right in the first place, it’s not like this is their first wheel.

 

the cut outs when hitting bumps are really my only concern.  The battery being 100% all the time is a non issue.  I don’t like the speed inflation either.  The difference in speed between my Nikola and 16x is so drastic when measured by gps...they are advertised as having the same speed.  

During my range test yesterday, even at 15-percent, when I was hitting speed bump type obstructions I had zero issues. Of course I wasn't trying to ride 20-mph. I think it's safe if you ride it conservatively.

Glad to know that you were joking :thumbup: You need to remember to add a emoticon so we know what's up :)

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37 minutes ago, photorph said:

Ha, well I’ll keep it.  That selling it thing was just an over reaction.  
 

but no the app does inflate the speed.  My locked wheel which is supposed to have a max speed of 40 km/h starts saying please decelerate are 39 km/h on the app (24 mph).  But when I look at gps it’s actually doing that at 21 ish mph.  
 

 

Ok cool. I understand. Mine is accurate. I’ll try and film it tomorrow

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1 hour ago, photorph said:

this should explain

WHOA~!!  Dude, that's totally scary.  That hasn't happened to me yet thank god, lol.  I noticed your footstance is what I have settled on myself recently - mostly toes off the front edge, little heel.  

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1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

Ok cool. I understand. Mine is accurate. I’ll try and film it tomorrow

Yea essentially the gps speed is always 3 ish mph lower than what the app states.  I think @chrisjunlee demonstrated this as well.  

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55 minutes ago, CampDylan said:

WHOA~!!  Dude, that's totally scary.  That hasn't happened to me yet thank god, lol.  I noticed your footstance is what I have settled on myself recently - mostly toes off the front edge, little heel.  

This is a simulation of hitting a bump, it may not have happened to you because you didn't do an ankle flick.  Film it...go above 22 mph and flick your ankle forward quickly.  Let us know if it happens or not.  The higher the speed, the easier to get it to dip.  

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8 hours ago, photorph said:

but no the app does inflate the speed.  My locked wheel which is supposed to have a max speed of 40 km/h starts saying please decelerate are 39 km/h on the app (24 mph).  But when I look at gps it’s actually doing that at 21 ish mph.  

You should be able to unlock straight to 50 km/h after 5 km riding. The last warning (beeps or voice) has to be at least 1 km/h lower than tilt back speed. Make sure you measure with a gps with more than 1 Hz refresh rate to be accurate.  
The battery % bug is still there on iOS because they are not able to get their app update through App Store curation. 
 

That flick on you video doesn’t seem that bad if you were on softest mode. But there are faulty wheels out there and you might have one of them. Probably going to need a new control board if that’s the case. 

Edited by UniVehje

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2 hours ago, UniVehje said:

You should be able to unlock straight to 50 km/h after 5 km riding. The last warning (beeps or voice) has to be at least 1 km/h lower than tilt back speed. Make sure you measure with a gps with more than 1 Hz refresh rate to be accurate.  
The battery % bug is still there on iOS because they are not able to get their app update through App Store curation. 
 

That flick on you video doesn’t seem that bad if you were on softest mode. But there are faulty wheels out there and you might have one of them. Probably going to need a new control board if that’s the case. 

Hi, yes there is a 10km period before you can increase it to 50 with 1.07 and I have unlocked my wheel since to 50 km/h.  But really what I was just trying to show is not the top speed...but rather that speed shown is app is a bit inflated.

The phone based gps I used I have compared against others and it is accurate.  Can you do the test with your gps to see if it matches the app?

 

As far as pedal dipping goes, I’m not sure if it’s the control board or just kingsong.  One person has their control board replaced and he is still able to pedal dip.  I would like to have more data on this however most people are not willing to attempt it.  If anyone can ride at higher speeds and can do a quick ankle flick, let me know if their their wheel dips.  We need to get this through to kingsong if indeed it is happening, not sure if it will result in anything...but at least just to make them aware.    

 

 

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30 minutes ago, photorph said:

If anyone can ride at higher speeds and can do a quick ankle flick, let me know if their their wheel dips.  We need to get this through to kingsong if indeed it is happening, not sure if it will result in anything...but at least just to make them aware.    

Well i tried it at about 25mph but just shortly because i don’t see no point of doing that, and mine didn’t dip.

I mean Kingsong should test that and not us, they have enough wheels to brake, why should we take that risk.

Edited by RoadRunner

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52 minutes ago, RoadRunner said:

Well i tried it at about 25mph but just shortly because i don’t see no point of doing that, and mine didn’t dip.

I mean Kingsong should test that and not us, they have enough wheels to brake, why should we take that risk.

Great point. I was just reading about the “ankle flick”, the relevance of it, it’s purpose and how to perform it in the king song manual. I found it in..........................:facepalm:

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I just tried that with my v1.05 and it makes a similar-ish sound.  That's the sound of torque imho (in fact it spins the wheel a bit on my garage floor).  Sounds like the growl of my MTen3.  If v1.06 doesn't do that, I'd wonder if tq has been reduced.

Edited by xorbe

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Just now, xorbe said:

I just tried that with my v1.05 and it makes a similar-ish sound.  That's the sound of torque imho.  Sounds like the growl of my MTen3.

It will go away with a firmware update 

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19 hours ago, photorph said:

 

This wasn’t that much of an effort either but this should explain, speed of 18-20 mph.  @chrisjunlee ankle flicks were higher speed to it tilted more.  There’s a whole thread about pedal dip/ankle flick.  

 

Holy hell...WTF was that?  Nice recovery.  That could easily result in you (or other riders) flying off the wheel.  I have not experienced anything even remotely similar to that.  I have first batch and remain on 1.05.  Will NOT be upgrading anytime soon.  Then again, I am not out to achieve top speed, etc.  I just prefer to cruise around and have racking up 600+ miles on this wheel.  Love everything about it.  That said, the stumble your wheel displayed is frightening. 

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10 minutes ago, Tom D said:

Holy hell...WTF was that?  Nice recovery.  That could easily result in you (or other riders) flying off the wheel.  I have not experienced anything even remotely similar to that.  I have first batch and remain on 1.05.  Will NOT be upgrading anytime soon.  Then again, I am not out to achieve top speed, etc.  I just prefer to cruise around and have racking up 600+ miles on this wheel.  Love everything about it.  That said, the stumble your wheel displayed is frightening. 

He did that himself 

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1 hour ago, Tom D said:

Holy hell...WTF was that?  Nice recovery.  That could easily result in you (or other riders) flying off the wheel.  I have not experienced anything even remotely similar to that.  I have first batch and remain on 1.05.  Will NOT be upgrading anytime soon.  Then again, I am not out to achieve top speed, etc.  I just prefer to cruise around and have racking up 600+ miles on this wheel.  Love everything about it.  That said, the stumble your wheel displayed is frightening. 

well...see below, his is more pronounced.  Yes we are doing this ourself by an ankle flick, but I can tell you my Gotways don't do this despite harder ankle flicks at higher speeds.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

Because they are not doing the testing they should.

Some people are completely missing the point of the ankle-flick, and what it demonstrates.

If one hits a bump or if an incline starts abruptly at 25mph or higher, the wheel does not know wether you are trying to do an ankle-flick for Youtube or if you are desperately trying to recover your balance in order to stay on the wheel. The result will be the same: the pedals will dip. Which will make a faceplant much more probable.

If we hit a bump or a pothole with a Gotway at 33mph, it will apply more power to the motor instantly in order to keep the pedals flat. It makes staying on the wheel much more likely. That is why the behaviour is compared to a GW. This is a very real and dangerous safety issue.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that exact behaviour was the core reason for the five faceplants KS mentioned being the reason for lowering the speed limits for the fw 1.06.

That all sounds great but if what you say is true and you are aware of it then why aren’t the engineers at Kingsong aware of it? This is a genuinely sincere question. It seems that safety is the number one concern with them so why would they not address this right away? Are they not able to apply more power to the motor during a speed bump or a pothole? If GW we can do it right the first time out why not KS? Because even lowering the speeds you’re still going to need to apply more power during these type of situations aren’t you? It just seems to me as I stated in another thread or somewhere else that these companies design a wheel to accomplish A, B, C and D. Some people aren’t happy with that and try to force it to do L, M, N and O. Then something terribly wrong happens like a face plant or a board failure followed by the person who took the wheel outside it’s originally design parameters launching into a complaint against said company. I just don’t get it. Educate me please. 

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@Patton250 The thing is, when I'm riding at 25mph, and the wheel doesn't have enough apparent power to keep the pedals from dipping from a large bump in the road (which we have been simulating with ankle flicks), I really don't think I'm taking it outside of its design parameters.

This wheel does use a new technique for delivering power to the motor than previous KS wheels (which is why it is so quiet). Additionally, the effect of back-EMF has a stronger effect at higher speeds, reducing the amount of extra deliverable power to the motor. I suspect this is why we only see this issue at 25mph or more. How the PCB is managing the back-EMF may be a contributing factor to this issue as well.

I haven't been as vocal as some others have been in their complaints, but I am patiently waiting for an update from King Song on this. I love this wheel. Jason got a new version of the 16X control board in, and has sent some to a handful of people that have experienced this issue, and we are hoping it addresses this very issue.

Edited by redfoxdude

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2 hours ago, redfoxdude said:

@Patton250 The thing is, when I'm riding at 25mph, and the wheel doesn't have enough apparent power to keep the pedals from dipping from a large bump in the road (which we have been simulating with ankle flicks), I really don't think I'm taking it outside of its design parameters.

This wheel does use a new technique for delivering power to the motor than previous KS wheels (which is why it is so quiet). Additionally, the effect of back-EMF has a stronger effect at higher speeds, reducing the amount of extra deliverable power to the motor. I suspect this is why we only see this issue at 25mph or more. How the PCB is managing the back-EMF may be a contributing factor to this issue as well.

I haven't been as vocal as some others have been in their complaints, but I am patiently waiting for an update from King Song on this. I love this wheel. Jason got a new version of the 16X control board in, and has sent some to a handful of people that have experienced this issue, and we are hoping it addresses this very issue.

I appreciate your response but I haven’t experienced anything of what you’re talking about with mine. 

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

That I do not know. What I do know is that they are already on version 1.07 with the firmware bugfixes, and a separate bluetooth fix that requires an install from a USB stick. It is obvious that the 16X was launched with numerous issues of which the engineers were not aware of or had not had the time to fix.

Perhaps they did, since the new boards are arriving to customers already.

We heard KS changing the motor to a new 2200W one less than two weeks before product launch. It sounds likely that they didn't have enough time to test the requirements the new motor lays on the control board. That's my guess.

Absolutely, which is why many people are being vocal about this potentially dangerous issue.

As @redfoxdude responded above, riding over bumps at 25mph should absolutely not be outside the wheel's design parameters. If it is, the wheel was designed to be dangerous, and the members of this forum should be even a lot more vocal about the issue. A blazingly fast accelerating wheel that should go 33mph with not enough power for obstacles at 25mph is a catastrophically dangerous design failure that should be blacklisted. I'm sincerely hoping that they can fix this fast.

That’s not what I was talking about when I said people are going beyond the design parameters. 

 

otherwise thank you for your response.

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

That I do not know. What I do know is that they are already on version 1.07 with the firmware bugfixes, and a separate bluetooth fix that requires an install from a USB stick. It is obvious that the 16X was launched with numerous issues of which the engineers were not aware of or had not had the time to fix.

Perhaps they did, since the new boards are arriving to customers already.

We heard KS changing the motor to a new 2200W one less than two weeks before product launch. It sounds likely that they didn't have enough time to test the requirements the new motor lays on the control board. That's my guess.

Absolutely, which is why many people are being vocal about this potentially dangerous issue.

As @redfoxdude responded above, riding over bumps at 25mph should absolutely not be outside the wheel's design parameters. If it is, the wheel was designed to be dangerous, and the members of this forum should be even a lot more vocal about the issue. A blazingly fast accelerating wheel that should go 33mph with not enough power for obstacles at 25mph is a catastrophically dangerous design failure that should be blacklisted. I'm sincerely hoping that they can fix this fast.

Apparently the new boards are for people with specific problems like they can’t get the pedals level even after calibration. It’s not because of some widespread issue.

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I am not convinced that doing that ankle flick move world in the same way as hitting a bump. I do think that tigers a different spike curve of power needs combined with a different readout of balance sensors. 

If you look at what happen going over a bump/root/Rock compared to the ankle flick (true high speed video recording), I think you will see the wheel behave differently. 

But then again I don't build EUCs for a living. 

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2 hours ago, Unventor said:

I am not convinced that doing that ankle flick move world in the same way as hitting a bump. I do think that tigers a different spike curve of power needs combined with a different readout of balance sensors. 

If you look at what happen going over a bump/root/Rock compared to the ankle flick (true high speed video recording), I think you will see the wheel behave differently. 

 

Hitting a bump or pothole is definitely a different beast compared to an ankle flick. Both situations will catch you off guard but I would prefer the ankle flick over this:

 

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2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Hitting a bump or pothole is definitely a different beast compared to an ankle flick. Both situations will catch you off guard but I would prefer the ankle flick over this:

 

Holy crap. What was your battery percentage at?

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