Kingsong 16X: pedal dipping (overleaning) video clip

[eddiemoy]

8 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

For a staff member you're unprofessionally salty and just an overall miserably toxic person. If you don't like what you read, no need to feel threatened, move on. Stay out of my threads, whether it be youtube, facebook, etc. Understand?

If you are not mature enough to handle comments please go private.  You will get comments that you don't like if you are posting this stuff publicly.  You started it with the name calling, making up names for people.  How childish.

[Mark Lee]

39 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

If you really don't like KS16X that much, why not just sell it and be done with it.  Why you keep on riding it when you know it is defective and just constantly whining about it saying it is a wide spread problem?  You are clearly not out to fix the issue with the manufacturer, just putting FUD out there to scare people into not buying a wheel.  Someone who is trying to do good for the community would contact the manufacturer and try to work out what the issue is, not keep on posting all the BS before confirming what issue it could be.  

Stick with the GW wheels and make sure you keep riding like you do.  With your inflated ego and the need for attention, your last crash won't be the last.  It is just how this hobby works.

Not the @eddiemoy I remember from all the posts about how Gotways are the death machines and if you value your life stay clear of Gotways.  How things change...

[chrisjunlee]

And to be clear, unlike what salty-moy states, I'm not complaining about this wheel, nor do I believe it's defective. I'm here to provide data and make suggestions which contribute to the community.

[chrisjunlee]

5 minutes ago, Mark Lee said:

Not the @eddiemoy I remember from all the posts about how Gotways are the death machines and if you value your life stay clear of Gotways.  How things change...

That's the irony - Eddie's the biggest cry baby. Which is probably why he reads my posts that way. 

In all his videos he's just frowning and miserable. In contrast, all of mine are lighthearted - yet, he persistently shows up on *all* of my social media threads to whine. That in itself should give you an idea of how miserable the guy is.

[eddiemoy]

2 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

That's the irony - Eddie's the biggest cry baby. Which is probably why he reads my posts that way. 

In all his videos he's just frowning and miserable. In contrast, all of mine are lighthearted - yet, he persistently shows up on *all* of my social media threads to whine. That in itself should give you an idea of how miserable the guy is.

here is me being professional, personal attacks are not tolerated.  this is a warning.  I'll keep this here just to show how immature you really are.

[chrisjunlee]

14 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

here is me being professional, personal attacks are not tolerated.  this is a warning.  I'll keep this here just to show how immature you really are.

The irony in responding with a personal attack, and a blatant power trip.

Please remove yourself from this thread and not show up any of my youtube/facebook/instagram/real-life. I do not appreciate your presence, nor the negativity you carry around. That is a direct and clear ask.

Edited October 10, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I'm neither an admin nor a lawyer, but I don't think a TO has a right to his thread.

I read here several times such things as: 

• this is my thread
• I don't want this.
• I don't want that
• open your own thread
• no self-promotion in my thread
• stay out of my thread 
• and so on..... 

Well, I don't know, but I think it's pretty fucked up. 

If this goes on like this, I will sell my 16X again and go back to the stupid ones in the RC-Helicopter Forum! 

Edited October 10, 2019 by buell47

[Shad0z]

my friend who also owns a 16x nearly wiped out because the pedals suddenly dipped like this while he was trying to overtake someone at 40kph, so i think it's more than just 1 isolated problem

[Darrell Wesh]

I had a dream that I was riding a 16x and the pedals started dipping when I tried to accelerate. Does that count ?

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I had a dream that I was riding a 16x and the pedals started dipping when I tried to accelerate. Does that count ?

[meepmeepmayer]

16X firmware 1.08 patch notes:

• Removed accidental curse that makes people aggressive and attack each other in 16X discussions

-

I'm starting to think every KS (18XL and 16X) potentially has this flicking problem after reading @Flyboy10's description. Doesn't seem like one defective wheel. At least a defective batch of something. Or simply there "by design" (planned or not), and it may not show up for most people?

Something's going on, especially if KS can diagnose the issue and specify a (presumably hardware) fix from just looking at the video. It's clear they know something we don't.

[EvoKnvl]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

I'm neither an admin nor a lawyer, but I don't think a TO has a right to his thread.

I read here several times such things as: 

• this is my thread
• I don't want this.
• I don't want that
• open your own thread
• no self-promotion in my thread
• stay out of my thread 
• and so on..... 

Well, I don't know, but I think it's pretty fucked up. 

If this goes on like this, I will sell my 16X again and go back to the stupid ones in the RC-Helicopter Forum! 

I'm with you.  In the amount of money I've spent on PEVs, I could have just added more car parts lol.   I've been here for a couple months now as a newbie trying to gather as much information as possible.  I quickly learned that KS and GW were the 2 biggest names out there and depending on what you were looking for, these are the specific wheels you're looking for.  

In my quest for information and knowledge, I get a sense of bias towards GW over KS, and they seem to do everything possible to paint KS in a negative light.  There are at least 3 that are very easy to spot just in the way they always present GW vs KS in the threads they either create or comment on.  I'm here for information and to know what the pros and cons are of each wheel.  I don't need sensationalized topics and statements to create fear in a product just to steer a person into another.  

Just remember, that competition is good.  You need strong competition to create innovation.  If you have 1 dominate manufacturer, all you end up with is stale products.  There is no incentive for the manufacturer to create something envelope pushing if there is no competition to take away their sales.

 

[Unventor]

2 minutes ago, moxxie said:

To the haters: why the hostility? Why are people so dismissive when the evidence suggests there are at least 3 confirmed wheels with this very issue?

3 units is not necessary an issue to be listed as a major concern for all owners. 

That said it can be a very serious issue with just 1 incident. If you as an owner is concerned then you should get the wheel investigated by your dealer or maker of the wheel no matter model or maker. 

I love my KS16X but I have to trust it 100%. I had an issue but I can't say that it will happen to all owners nor that it is only my unit affected. 

So wheel went to dealer so he together with KS can investigate this properly not just by my rookie green service skill for EUCs. 

I am still waiting for what they find and getting it back. 

So let's get those pedal dipping wheels investigated rather keep moaning about it. 

My wheel never did the pedal dip. But I don't ride at the wheels limit not top speed. I don't need to enjoy the wheel. 

[ABS Knut]

19 minutes ago, EvoKnvl said:

I get a sense of bias towards GW over KS, and they seem to do everything possible to paint KS in a negative light. 

I'm a super noobie but I'm trying to decide between the Nikola or 16x. I've ridden both and I prefer the feel of the 16x but I like doing more in depth research about other peoples experiences. But I do feel like there is some bias towards Gotway (from what I've seen since I've joined). For example I don't get the comparison saying that the Nikola+ is better than the 16X. It obviously is because the Nikola+ is 100v and $500 more expensive. 

For me its between the Nikola 84v and the 16x, cause spec wise they seem the same.

[eddiemoy]

11 minutes ago, ABS Knut said:

I'm a super noobie but I'm trying to decide between the Nikola or 16x. I've ridden both and I prefer the feel of the 16x but I like doing more in depth research about other peoples experiences. But I do feel like there is some bias towards Gotway (from what I've seen since I've joined). For example I don't get the comparison saying that the Nikola+ is better than the 16X. It obviously is because the Nikola+ is 100v and $500 more expensive. 

For me its between the Nikola 84v and the 16x, cause spec wise they seem the same.

There is nothing on the Nik/Nik+ that is better than the 16X except the top speed.  If you are into top speed without tiltback safety, then go for the Nik/Nik+.  The trolley handle, pedals, ergonomics, front light, mud flap, side pads, ride, acceleration, lift cutoff, build quality, thoughtful design, ALL BETTER on the 16X. 

The first time you open the two wheels side by side, you will know what I'm talking about when it comes to quality.  The Nik/Nik+ is held together by duct tape(SMH), the Nik+ they just rough cut the slot that was meant for the controller to fit another battery.  Loose wire everywhere, after a while of riding and shaking, I would need to open the unit up to inspect the wiring.  Tire change, on the Nik/Nik+, was so much harder to do, need to remove silicone glue and reapply when you put it back together vs the 16X, just remove screws and slide it out.  

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by eddiemoy

[meepmeepmayer]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

There is nothing on the Nik/Nik+ that is better than the 16X except the top speed.

According to pretty much everyone who tried both, the Nikola just rides better (especially the 100V). I do love the rock-solid, relentlessly-level-pedals power delivery of my old ACM, and if the Gotways have that and the Kingsongs don't and feel mellower, that alone would be enough reason to prefer the Nikola.

Also a few people seem to have gone from Kingsong to Gotway lately and found that an improvement, e.g. @chrisjunlee (ok maybe you don't let that count) or @Flyboy10. Marty loves his Nikola.

I haven't tried either wheel, just read the forum. But you can't judge wheels by their specs alone.

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said:

According to pretty much everyone who tried both, the Nikola just rides better (especially the 100V). I do love the rock-solid, relentlessly-level-pedals power delivery of my old ACM, and if the Gotways have that and the Kingsongs don't and feel mellower, that alone would be enough reason to prefer the Nikola.

Also a few people seem to have gone from Kingsong to Gotway lately and found that an improvement, e.g. @chrisjunlee (ok maybe you don't let that count) or @Flyboy10. Marty loves his Nikola.

I haven't tried either wheel, just read the forum. But you can't judge wheels by their specs alone.

i have both, i'm one of those who have bought the nik+ to over look everything else because of the need for 31+mph.  that being said, i still prefer my 16x over the nik+ for most riding.

[photorph]

  @chrisjunlee is unfortunately right about this...I was hoping he wasn't.  Just happened, more later...

[ArqFG]

6 hours ago, stephen said:

6 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I think besides Kuji and bleepbop

Kuji had a front/back oscillation problem due to firmware? I think yours is a different problem

I think is the same from every one else... But I can with every fw update I less and less, when I'm riding I know +/- when is coming so I stop and rebalance it,  and now that I think about it usually happens when I was riding 35-45km/h... (but at low speed happens as well, not as usual but happens) But yeah let us know how goes I'll wait for the video👍👍

[photorph]

Here's the scoop.  I'm doing a proper test on this over the weekend.  I'm still so busy with ewheels, way too many emails to go through.  But today in between the emails I grabbed the KS16x and took it out for 5 mins.

 

Low speed: no issues with pedal dipping.

 

Above 20 mph: I didn't try that hard... I could do the the flick a lot harder.  But I did one medium-ish effort ankle flick and I felt a dip!  Was kind of scary actually.  Here is the video of it.  Now I'm not sure if this is normal or not, but all I can say is it happens.  

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by photorph

[photorph]

And here I thought this forum was just for EUC talk.  Interesting development. 

 

Whatever the case, one thing I can confirm is that @chrisjunlee and his pedal dip video is accurate for the KS16x.  I've tried it once, and it was a medium-ish effort flick... scary when it happens.  I am gonna try it with more effort this weekend, kind of concerned though...but for the sake of another data point.

 

 

[chrisjunlee]

10 minutes ago, photorph said:

Here's the scoop.  I'm doing a proper test on this over the weekend.  I'm still so busy with ewheels, way too many emails to go through.  But today in between the emails I grabbed the KS16x and took it out for 5 mins.

Low speed: no issues with pedal dipping.

Above 20 mph: I didn't try that hard... I could do the the flick a lot harder.  But I did one medium-ish effort ankle flick and I felt a dip!  Was kind of scary actually.  Here is the video of it.  Now I'm not sure if this is normal or not, but all I can say is it happens.  

That's a good 15° dip at 20 mph? Be careful, at 25mph, that same impulse will dip ~30° 

[FlyboyEUC]

I was going no more than 20mph up a 17% grade hill (I climb everyday to leave my apartment complex). Hill has a lot of cracks. My 14d and 14s pedal dipped maybe 2 or 3 times going up this hill.

Hoping to do a comparison video of the 18xl and the 100v MSX. But for now here is my 2 cents. Kingsong: perfect in every way (form, trolley, comfort, etc) except that it dips and I feel like I'm playing with the devil. MSX: pedals stay flat no matter what I put it through. Today I road a motocross track that was in poor condition. It was very aggressive and I would not have been able to do it on the XL. However, the pedal angle, trolley and lifting handle are very uncomfortable, and like @eddiemoy's video from forever ago, my MSX is missing brass screw insert thingys and the trolley handle is breaking/cracking due to poor design/manufacturing. That being said, I feel more stable on the MSX. Now I try to stay around 25mph on the 18xl.

My first fall on a wheel at speed was when I was offroading (bumpy dirt path) at 25mph and the wheel just stopped balancing. I now know that it was because of this pedal dip. The MSX could do the same path and go faster and still be solid. Still can't say which one I stand by more but 4 months ago I did not like Gotway. Now I understand their place in the world and appreciate how well their pedals stay flat. I have no clue what goes on under the hood so to say. I'm one of those people who buy a car expecting it to work. That's why I initially went with Kingsong. I trusted their focus on safety. Maybe their reliability is going down because people ride harder now. It would be interesting to for someone to try pedal dipping the 16s or 14in wheels. I know I've pedal dipped on the 14 inchers but I though it was just due to small battery. 

Wow, long post. Sorry. I will note also that a new controller board is on its way.

[stephen]

5 hours ago, photorph said:

  @chrisjunlee is unfortunately right about this...I was hoping he wasn't.  Just happened, more later...

 

4 hours ago, ArqFG said:

I think is the same from every one else... But I can with every fw update I less and less, when I'm riding I know +/- when is coming so I stop and rebalance it,  and now that I think about it usually happens when I was riding 35-45km/h... (but at low speed happens as well, not as usual but happens) But yeah let us know how goes I'll wait for the video👍👍

What's your batch numbers

2 hours ago, photorph said:

Here's the scoop.  I'm doing a proper test on this over the weekend.  I'm still so busy with ewheels, way too many emails to go through.  But today in between the emails I grabbed the KS16x and took it out for 5 mins.

 

Low speed: no issues with pedal dipping.

 

Above 20 mph: I didn't try that hard... I could do the the flick a lot harder.  But I did one medium-ish effort ankle flick and I felt a dip!  Was kind of scary actually.  Here is the video of it.  Now I'm not sure if this is normal or not, but all I can say is it happens.  

 

That just looked like it was instant torque , what mode you got it on and what firmware ?👍

[Unventor]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

According to pretty much everyone who tried both, the Nikola just rides better

That is so hard a statement to make, and one that will start the GW vs KS flames again...many of these are made around top speed on the edge riders.

For those riders, yes the KS16x is not for you.

First of:  pretty much everyone....No exact numbers nor something you can see as a new read where you go that data from. 

Second: Nikola rides better...so how do you define better ? Because there are many ways to agree or disagree with "better".

So coming to a KS thread posting these simplified statements will like not go down well with people that like there wheel, just saying this.

What I will agree on any day that some like the Nikola others will like the KS16X, I will not say either is better. I will say that if you want to put one infront of the other, one place where you cannot dispute this is top speed. Then you have one wheel being out in market sooner than the other and a different design philosophy. Which way you like this is a personal matter. I prefer the way KS do it, where they can fine tune the wheel as they get more feedback. 

Now i don't mean to point finger to you @meepmeepmayer by quoting you. But I see these posts again and again and people not like the bad talk and harsh tone these discussions have taken over the past 6 months.

I am leaning toward the KS16X since I bought this, I am not hidding this. But you don't see me posting in GW/Nikola threads, why? Because it holds no interest to me what so ever. And I don't want to get dragged into simplified arguments on complex comparisons.