Hibiki Mr.H Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I may seem like a King Song fan boy (as Marty called me But to be completely honest, I only prefer King Song for its trolley handle and proper seat option. Otherwise I pick GW over KS any day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 38 minutes ago, MaxLinux said: "flawless." I wonder if you guys ever ride the beeps on the 18XL... my experience has not been flawless at those speeds. Not bagging on the XL but it has some flaws when you ride it with a purpose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblade Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Flyboy10 said: when you ride it with a purpose. Were you in the Army by chance? That's the last time I heard that phrase, "You better move with a purpose!" p.s. Hooah! (If that means anything to you!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seage Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 8 hours ago, erk1024 said: For what it's worth, I like my Monster V3 better than my 18XL. But I've taken it apart twice to address build quality issues. I haven't had to fix anything on the 18XL--it's been flawless since day one. You make me wanna buy that monster asap, lol. Btw, what did you have to open it up and fix? I think i vaguely remember you posting about opening it on your thread, but I cant remember now. Nor can i remember the name of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) Way too much flame-bait in that OP for me to use energy on arguments. We’re lucky not to have much fanboy wars in the community, and I prefer it to stay that way. People have different priorities and preferences. Edited September 20, 2019 by Mimolette 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Blueblade said: Were you in the Army by chance? No. I've never served in the armed forces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erk1024 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: I wonder if you guys ever ride the beeps on the 18XL If you hit tiltback on the 18XL it's unpleasant and unnerving. I used "flawless" in the context of not having any build quality issues. No wheel is perfect obviously. But @Flyboy10 what did you run into when riding it at top speed? Edited September 20, 2019 by erk1024 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisjunlee Posted September 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2019 12 hours ago, MaxLinux said: For some reason when the 16X arrived it got all the attention, and the outstanding 18XL has been forgotten. I'm glad the 16X is great and that its problems are being solved. But it's hard for me to believe it's better than the 18XL. I describe my 18XL the way @erk1024 describes his: "flawless." I took a 18XL for a spin after getting used to the 16X (700 miles on 16X, 700 on Nik 100V). Immediately, and I mean immediately pedal dipped it. The 18XL is even more underpowered than the 16X. I am not an aggressive rider, nor am I heavy. The 16X and 18XL are wheels you absolutely need to baby. Kingsong's safety talk is just corporate doublespeak for "we can't figure out how to make a better wheel, let's reframe it to us intentionally limiting the power for 'rider safety'". 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted September 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: Kingsong's safety talk is just corporate doublespeak for "we can't figure out how to make a better wheel, let's reframe it to us intentionally limiting the power for 'rider safety'". I would have put it a bit more nicely, especially with a bait thread title like this, so no war breaks out. But I have the feeling there is definitely some truth to that. Back in the old days (in 2017) a Solowheel post tried to convince us the absurdly soft ride mode of the SW Extreme was intentional and a plus instead of anything but a technical limitation to prevent overleaning the tiny battery. In the case of Kingsong (and the 16X) they might genuinely think that a wheel should not go faster than 50kph. So maybe it's not only technical limitations. But with the 16X saga, it seems technical limitations certainly played a role. I wonder if they should just have stayed with their old motor and a 45kph wheel like originally planned. I assume then all the difficulties and throttling adaptions wouldn't have happened. The 16X could have been the slower but more torque-y alternative to the Nikola. So yeah, apparently Gotway already know how to build fast wheels and KS is just learning it. I agree with your assessment that this is what is happening. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erk1024 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 10 hours ago, seage said: You make me wanna buy that monster asap, lol. Btw, what did you have to open it up and fix? I think i vaguely remember you posting about opening it on your thread, but I cant remember now. Nor can i remember the name of the thread. Stuff I had to fix on the Monster: When flipped up, the right side pedal would fall down with any kind of movement of the wheel. I took off the side panel, and the magnet had been glued in tilted (with solidified hot glue in between the magnet and the body) and it was close to falling out of its hole. So I pulled off the hot glue and re-installed it correctly this time with epoxy. That magnet is never coming out! The lift cut-off button could get stuck. I'd turn on the wheel and it wouldn't auto-balance, and didn't know why. Then if I monkeyed around with the button and made sure it was in the full-out position, the wheel would work. Yikes. I unplugged that button and taped down the wires. The wheel had a slow leak in the tube from the factory. The leak was in the inner seam of the tube next to the rim. Just a defective tube. Probably not Gotway's fault, but QA probably should have noticed the flat tire and replaced it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCGUY Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, erk1024 said: Stuff I had to fix on the Monster: When flipped up, the right side pedal would fall down with any kind of movement of the wheel. I took off the side panel, and the magnet had been glued in tilted (with solidified hot glue in between the magnet and the body) and it was close to falling out of its hole. So I pulled off the hot glue and re-installed it correctly this time with epoxy. That magnet is never coming out! The lift cut-off button could get stuck. I'd turn on the wheel and it wouldn't auto-balance, and didn't know why. Then if I monkeyed around with the button and made sure it was in the full-out position, the wheel would work. Yikes. I unplugged that button and taped down the wires. The wheel had a slow leak in the tube from the factory. The leak was in the inner seam of the tube next to the rim. Just a defective tube. Probably not Gotway's fault, but QA probably should have noticed the flat tire and replaced it. my tune was covered in fine machine dust, metal dust, i dont think they spent any time looking over. its all put together fast and shipped out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 8 hours ago, erk1024 said: If you hit tiltback on the 18XL it's unpleasant and unnerving. I used "flawless" in the context of not having any build quality issues. No wheel is perfect obviously. But @Flyboy10 what did you run into when riding it at top speed? The build quality is excellent, I agree. On both my 14D and 18XL when I climb a hill or hit near top speed, often times the wheel loses balance for a split second and just when I think this is the end, the pedals straighten up again. I've had some low speed tiltback issues with the XL as well. Might just be the 100v MSX and the bigger tire but I don't feel any bumps when I ride the MSX. The pedals stay flat no matter what bumps I hit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erk1024 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, Flyboy10 said: often times the wheel loses balance for a split second and just when I think this is the end, the pedals straighten up again Sounds terrifying! I haven't experienced that yet. As far as low-speed tiltback, I had that exactly once. I was riding on a super bumpy trail near the beach, and it was raining at the time. But out of the blue I got tiltback, and it stayed tilted back until I had to get off the wheel. It's never happened since though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post erk1024 Posted September 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, erk1024 said: Stuff I had to fix on the Monster I want to make a subtle but important point about this topic. You can read this forum and get the wrong impression. Just because people have some issues with a wheel doesn't mean that we should write it off as a "bad wheel". I had to do some up-front changes/repairs to my Monster the day I got it. Annoying. I could write an angry forum post about "I can't believe the build quality and quality control! What is Gotway thinking?!" and that would be fair criticism. Some people would think ... WOW I'm not getting one of those! But the problem is--I like my Monster better--despite the issues! Once I fixed it up, it's been fantastic. The issues were pretty minor in any case. There is a long running thread about "Who's had problems with the Kingsong App?" And some people have had really bad issues. But many haven't. I literally never had a problem with the app! Not one! I unlocked the wheel fine. I've done firmware updates. It works every time I use it. It's probably the same with the 16X. It's had some teething issues for sure! But Kuji is having a blast on his now. He's beating the hell out of it, and taking it up absurdly steep ramps and down stairs. It sure looks like he's having fun. Would you rather have a very reliable 18XL or have a 16X with stupid amounts of torque? I bet a bunch of 16X owners wouldn't trade it for any other wheel. But if you read the 16X thread, you'd think it's a vibrating gyroscopic death machine that will drink all the beer in your fridge. Edited September 21, 2019 by erk1024 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 9 hours ago, erk1024 said: I used "flawless" in the context of not having any build quality issues. I used "flawless" in the context of the 18XL being flawless. After reading here about some of the "underpowered" "pedal dipping" and otherwise bad 18XLs out there, I'm glad I got one of the good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurokinetik Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 20 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: I wonder if you guys ever ride the beeps on the 18XL... my experience has not been flawless at those speeds. Not bagging on the XL but it has some flaws when you ride it with a purpose. I do, all the time. No issues for me at all. I tend not to hit the tiltback, though, since once I get the triple beep, I tend to back off slightly to two beeps. 7 minutes ago, MaxLinux said: I used "flawless" in the context of the 18XL being flawless. After reading here about some of the "underpowered" "pedal dipping" and otherwise bad 18XLs out there, I'm glad I got one of the good ones. I wonder how much of that is down to firmware, as I've stuck with 1.11 (IIRC) because of the pedal dip reports, and I've never experienced it. Now, to answer the original question: I wish I could frankenstein a wheel that was the combination of KingSong's frame, shell and pedals, and Gotway's motor, control board, and battery. There are aspects of Gotway wheels that I hate (the pedal mounting, the axle shims) and there are things I can't stand about KingSong (the speed limiting and the app). Wish I could have the best of both worlds. If only I owned a CNC... Edited September 21, 2019 by neurokinetik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seage Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Flyboy10 said: The build quality is excellent, I agree. On both my 14D and 18XL when I climb a hill or hit near top speed, often times the wheel loses balance for a split second and just when I think this is the end, the pedals straighten up again. I've had some low speed tiltback issues with the XL as well. Might just be the 100v MSX and the bigger tire but I don't feel any bumps when I ride the MSX. The pedals stay flat no matter what bumps I hit. Ive felt that when going around 48km/h. Terrifying. Your heart just kinda goes "yeah, its over" and you prepare to fall, then it catches you. Not something i enjoy, thats for sure. But thats why my next wheel is going to be gotway. I still love my XL, but like...im never pushing it to tiltback, ever. Those speeds are no no zones for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, erk1024 said: "Who's had problems with the Kingsong App?" My King Song app works fine, but 5-10 times per day, when the app is not even open as far as I can tell, the message pops up, "Kingsong has stopped" with the X "close app". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 My Kingsong app never works. I get that same error so I force close the app. I strictly use wheellog, it's the best app. I could never get the Gotway app to even open though so Kingsong has a leg up on that to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seage Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Surprisingly, my kingsong official app close to ALWAYS works, and never needs to be force closed. Its more stable than wheel log. Btw, are the XL pedals tilted in at all? Or are they totally flat? I know the 16X are slightly tilted, which people seem to like. Does that aggressive angle lead to better control but more foot fatigue? Is that the tradeoff you get with more aggressive wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Many serious riders here in the Bay have swapped out their Nikola pads for something thinner and firmer. Makes a huge difference in comfort and control. I use surf stomp mats using the kick tail as a speed wedge. Highly recommended. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lee Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, who_the said: Many serious riders here in the Bay have swapped out their Nikola pads for something thinner and firmer. Makes a huge difference in comfort and control. I use surf stomp mats using the kick tail as a speed wedge. Highly recommended. Can you please provide a link to the material they look very functional and awesome looking great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyboyEUC Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 3 hours ago, seage said: Btw, are the XL pedals tilted in at all? Or are they totally flat? They are tilted up slightly... But not much. I think something in between that and the MSX would be perfect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave U Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark Lee said: Can you please provide a link to the material they look very functional and awesome looking great job. Go on Amazon and search "surf stomp mats" pick your color of choice and order it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 12 hours ago, Mark Lee said: Can you please provide a link to the material they look very functional and awesome looking great job. Thanks, sure thing! I've tried a few but here is the one shown on my Nikola Plus above: https://amzn.to/351JTZF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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