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PogArt Artur

Z10's ... -> today's tyre pressure thoughts.

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Hi there.
I'm not posting anything for long time because I ended up on my daily routine...
Going to work and back, 10miles per day 🙂.
What interesting should I tell about it,lol 🤣

The only thing I can share recently is my short period of experiments related to tyre pressure.
Some (who remember) were advising me to try lower pressure riding,when I were inflating up to 30PSI and I have loved it (Z10).
Later on I have started being keen to drop it down to 23PSI, thinking - no any lower 😋

Until yesterday 😎

After commuting daily for over a month (without checking the tyre pressure) I started tempting to find out what pressure I'm riding at present - it was 21PSI...
I decided to inflate it back to 23PSI (yesterday).
I went to work and back - as usually 😋
I did drop the pressure down immediately after I got back home - to 21PSI 😋

Yes.
I did notice that 21PSI is more forgiving, it's absorbing the shock caused by street holes much better, allows me riding with optimal comfort, giving me sense of safer riding over the surface imperfections...

- I can confirm now, that lower tyre pressure on Z10, makes this wonderful EUC much better regarding its performance on random surfaces (street,pavement,grass -> including there all imperfections you can only imagine).

Obviously some of you might think opposite, this is only my own thoughts and the tale, how I ended up liking 21PSI compared to 30PSI 😋 

I suspect after couple of weeks it will get down even below 20PSI - I guess I won't mind it 😎

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@PogArt ArturCan I ask what you weigh?

I have been settled at 23psi for a while now. But now that I am getting out and about on the roads more as I build my confidence, I feel like I should go down to maybe 21psi. But it can feel a little squishy at times at 21psi when I'm trying to practice my tight turns, so maybe 22psi might be a good starting point. I do wish I could go down to around 15psi like some people, but I weight 95kg and that just feels too low for me. 

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I still run between 14 and 15psi at 90kg. The wheel turns on a dime at low speeds and doesn't shake my fillings out at high speed. I have learnt to feel quite comfortable pushing the wheel fast now, I rarely get shocked by the tramlining and I love the hanging off required. In fact I also carve everywhere now at all speeds.

The only occasion where the tramlining continues to be an issue for me is on narrow (less than 1 foot wide) gravel paths with raised grass edges. You really need a lot of concentration to keep the Z in the middle of that path because if you clip the grass you inevitably get brown pant moments. My buddy on an MSX doesn't put nearly as much effort into it, as if he does touch the grass it isn't much of an event. As a consequence, he is a lot quicker. Further, as his tyre is narrower to start with, he has a bit more leeway on the track to play with anyway.

It's just one of those things. For everything other than really narrow track stuff, I absolutely love the Z :)

Funnily enough, I am starting to feel that the only issue is range. Never thought I would say that tbh. 25 to 30 miles was enough for me and my legs were done by that point, but as my legs and foot muscles get stronger/conditioned it's becoming something to consider. I was out for 28 miles yesterday, down to 20% battery and I could have ridden longer. For example, theres a ride to the Olympic Park soon - the guys meet up about 13 miles away, ride there, do about 10 miles riding around then ride back. Total about 36 to 40 miles. I can't do that. I can meet at the park, but I would lose a lot of riding time with them. I have just ordered a 6A charger which will give me about 30% top-up for an hour of charging which I can do at the park, but I would rather not have to think about it, plus it won't arrive till the winter so I will miss at least 2 of the park rides.

I guess what I am saying is that I just want a 1500Wh+ Z10 :)

 

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7 hours ago, Retrovertigo said:

@PogArt ArturCan I ask what you weigh?

I have been settled at 23psi for a while now. But now that I am getting out and about on the roads more as I build my confidence, I feel like I should go down to maybe 21psi. But it can feel a little squishy at times at 21psi when I'm trying to practice my tight turns, so maybe 22psi might be a good starting point. I do wish I could go down to around 15psi like some people, but I weight 95kg and that just feels too low for me. 

That's the case, everybody has its own preferences,the weight vary too.

I'm 75kg my friend, I bet 85kg or even more - if fully geared up with backpack filled up with some shopping ...

I've started the above topic, because suddenly I felt how much difference is giving to the riding condition THE ONLY 2 PSI ?

I always were riding "rock hard" at 30PSI, but when I started going on roads, the rock hard tyre was so badly uncomfortable, making me thinking twice before passing over some holes or pavements, or anything else...

I was "forced" to lower the pressure,simply because I didn't like it.

25PSI was much better, but still very similar problems regarding the feel of the surface.

Thus I ended up on 23PSI, and I left it as it was, to find out two days ago I was on 21PSI (after couple of weeks without checking it) 😁

This is actually what I have learnt - the lower the pressure the better control and confidence in riding.

The flatter surface of the tyre (lower pressure) has greater area to contact the road,therefore it's swallow most sharp edges or holes or name it yourself 🙂

It's simply going over faced imperfections much easier,where the rock hard tyre (30PSI) seems to pick those imperfections in detail frequently, what's causing the Z10 behaving weird sometimes, and giving the feeling like the Z10 is riding you, not you riding Z10 - if that's making sense 😁

Since I learnt the above, the 23PSI is too much for me.

I would not try 22PSI either.

I think 21PSI (at present) might be too much to be honest 😁

I know the pressure will get lower after few weeks, so probably the next time I'll check it, it might be around 19PSI?

I hope it helps you to make your mind up what suits you best.

Don't be afraid to try 21PSI straight away, 1PSI difference might not be enough to sense the difference regarding riding?

Best regards 🙂

   

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3 hours ago, Planemo said:

I still run between 14 and 15psi at 90kg. The wheel turns on a dime at low speeds and doesn't shake my fillings out at high speed. I have learnt to feel quite comfortable pushing the wheel fast now, I rarely get shocked by the tramlining and I love the hanging off required. In fact I also carve everywhere now at all speeds.

The only occasion where the tramlining continues to be an issue for me is on narrow (less than 1 foot wide) gravel paths with raised grass edges. You really need a lot of concentration to keep the Z in the middle of that path because if you clip the grass you inevitably get brown pant moments. My buddy on an MSX doesn't put nearly as much effort into it, as if he does touch the grass it isn't much of an event. As a consequence, he is a lot quicker. Further, as his tyre is narrower to start with, he has a bit more leeway on the track to play with anyway.

It's just one of those things. For everything other than really narrow track stuff, I absolutely love the Z :)

Funnily enough, I am starting to feel that the only issue is range. Never thought I would say that tbh. 25 to 30 miles was enough for me and my legs were done by that point, but as my legs and foot muscles get stronger/conditioned it's becoming something to consider. I was out for 28 miles yesterday, down to 20% battery and I could have ridden longer. For example, theres a ride to the Olympic Park soon - the guys meet up about 13 miles away, ride there, do about 10 miles riding around then ride back. Total about 36 to 40 miles. I can't do that. I can meet at the park, but I would lose a lot of riding time with them. I have just ordered a 6A charger which will give me about 30% top-up for an hour of charging which I can do at the park, but I would rather not have to think about it, plus it won't arrive till the winter so I will miss at least 2 of the park rides.

I guess what I am saying is that I just want a 1500Wh+ Z10 :)

 

Cheers for your thoughts @Planemo.

As you can see I'm still "a bit" farther away from 15PSI, I may get there eventually 😁

You must remember I've started with rock hard pressure, if you'd told me I will love 21PSI - I wouldn't believe you - now it is true 😁

The practice opening the eyes, and the more you ride the more you "feel" what's good what's wrong, then you are able to pin point your own preferences 🙂

You mentioned the range, you wish you could squeeze some more off the Z10, I'm about the speed...

When I started on E+ the 8 MPH was scary, now I do 28 MPH and craving for more 😁

No, I think I didn't become speed demon 😎, it's all about commute in traffic.

28 is fair enough, but if I could do 33.., then it would be much easier to keep up (mentain) the speed around 30MPH.

I can't believe I said the above 😁😁😁

I used to say - no, not at all, 20mph will do for me 😂🤣😂

Well, the things changing , aren't they?

TBH I commute at 23mph in most cases, this is where my first alarm comes alive telling me I have reached that speed limit on my Z.

But there are the situations where I wish I could go faster straight line...

The range isn't bothering me yet, as I mainly commute only (10miles per day).

You know some @Planemo ?

I think if I could upgrade, I'd choose the Gotway Monster 22" wheel 😎

I'm fancy that EUC , there's no any other wheel at present I would have consider for upgrade.

Best regards.

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I run 32psi on my Z10.  Some data:  I weigh 210 lbs and ride 20mph or less.  I do lots of corners and carving.  Yeah some bumps jar a bit but overall it's ok.  I tried 26psi for a bit and I thought I was going to dump the wheel continuously.  To me it was very squirrelly and loose.  I barely had the tram line effect at 32psi but it was very noticeable at 26psi.  I've since put it back to 32psi.  

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Your findings are interesting, if somewhat unusual.

I found the Z far more twitchy at higher pressures by a large margin. Plus it was a much harder (overly harsh imo) ride. I am quite confident of my feelings on these two points. As for tramlining, I'm not so sure. I had always thought that it was worse at high pressure, but tbh I never spent long enough at high pressures for that thought to be conclusive.

I really need to get mine to 32psi and test it out on a suitable piece of tramline inducing terrain. The below would be a perfect Z test bed, unfortunately its in another country, posted by another Z rider. 

P1150069_resize.JPG.8b7ec146a47f851dca744bbf9550d005.jpeg.15b97a79798566597cc6d0e5fb1f5f21.jpeg

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I can't wait to get properly out on the roads and try riding on some nice smooth tarmac. I'm still a bit unsure about riding in traffic. Nothing to do with my riding ability now, more to do with thinking back to my motorcycle accident and it affecting my head much more than I thought it would. 

 I realise I have actually done less than 50 miles so far! Mainly because of foot ache at first, and then the bloody Manchester weather :angry: I'm quite proud though, of how accomplished I feel on the wheel considering the low mileage :) 

 I've spent a fortune on protective clothing, and should be as safe as you can be. I reckon the softer psi will stand me in good stead....just in case there are the odd bumps and lumps. I think if I went crazy high on psi I'd get completely caught out by the wheel.

Edited by Retrovertigo

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6 hours ago, Retrovertigo said:

I can't wait to get properly out on the roads and try riding on some nice smooth tarmac. I'm still a bit unsure about riding in traffic. Nothing to do with my riding ability now, more to do with thinking back to my motorcycle accident and it affecting my head much more than I thought it would. 

 I realise I have actually done less than 50 miles so far! Mainly because of foot ache at first, and then the bloody Manchester weather :angry: I'm quite proud though, of how accomplished I feel on the wheel considering the low mileage :) 

 I've spent a fortune on protective clothing, and should be as safe as you can be. I reckon the softer psi will stand me in good stead....just in case there are the odd bumps and lumps. I think if I went crazy high on psi I'd get completely caught out by the wheel.

Hi, your case is very similar to my 2 years ago today.

I had motorbike accident in Nov 2017.

I was commuting in traffic on my Z10 for 6 days per week.

It's necessary to be always aiming up front, taking a big picture of the way you going.

It's actually very comparable to motorbiking, but in this case you have no real brakes...

So I was always trying to plan ahead, see what's happening to avoid emergency braking aa much as possible.

You must know the reactions will vary (car drivers).

Some are amazed, giving you way and being appreciated seeing you riding your wheel, others are pissed off just because you're on their way.

Once some idiot started horning me and then being at a side of me tried to push me off the street, like to scare me off causing me to crash ...

Some aren't moving in the traffic, just because they noticed me oncoming, the drivers just stopping their cars on the middle of the road?!

They will record you on their mobilephones too , so be ready to smile to the camera 😁

 I've started with 30PSI first.

I was reducing it down to 21PSI.

In my experience once you try to ride lower pressure you will not come back to 30PSI.

It's because you'll find that the low PSI is more forgiving, more forgiving the street holes, the riding you will feel is safer then.

There's Police to be mentioned yet.

I was commute throughout busy Bradford city centre.

The cops are everywhere every day...

Patrol cars, foot patrol, all of them.

I been watched by them, they was stopping their cars to check me out, they were following me at behind just watching, they were next to me on the traffic lights junctions too, when I was just next to them...

I never was stopped, no such scenarios.

Obviously I don't know about Manchester's Police, so this is for you to find out.

In my case I just couldn't commute different way as through city centre.

If I could choose I probably wouldn't commute through busy town next to all those cops around me...

Best regards. 

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 @PogArt Arturso far, although I have been riding in the middle of the night, I have found taxi drivers to be amazingly considerate. There is a road around the corner from me, with parked cars on both sides, and even though an approaching taxi driver can only see my lights, and not be sure what I am riding, they have always stopped to let me go through first. And then have a good stare at me :efee612b4b:

 You are right though, I didn't actually think about braking, and not having them! That is something I need to start thinking about before I go out in more traffic. I have been able to ride in the night without ever stopping! I must practice hard braking next.

 I have been told by a friend who commutes into the city centre here in Manchester, that there are loads of scooters and electric skateboards around in the early morning, all commuting, and he hasn't ever seen anybody being stopped. Which was a pleasant surprise. 

 I am tempted to go out around that time and start riding along with them all on the cycle lanes leading up to the university (which is on the same road leading into the city centre) just to blend in with a few people and see what it's like  :)

Edited by Retrovertigo

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2 minutes ago, Retrovertigo said:

 @PogArt Arturso far, although I have been riding in the middle of the night, I have found taxi drivers to be amazingly considerate. There is a road around the corner from me, with parked cars on both sides, and even though an approaching taxi driver can only see my lights, and not be sure what I am riding, they have always stopped to let me go through first. And then have a good stare at me :efee612b4b:

 You are right though, I didn't actually think about braking, and not having them! That is something I need to start thinking about before I go out in more traffic. I have been able to ride in the night without ever stopping! I must practice hard braking next.

 I have been told by a friend who commutes into the city centre here in Manchester, that there are loads of scooters and electric skateboards around in the early morning, all commuting, and he hasn't ever seen anybody being stopped. Which was a pleasant surprise. 

 I am tempted to go out around that time and start riding along with them all on the cycle lanes leading up to the university (which is on the same road leading into the city centre) just to blend in with a few people and see what it's like  :)

That's a great experience so far 🙂

I'm a bus driver, to stop the bus in place (bear in mind the heavy mass) it's taking fewer metres.

This is something I used to be aware of while riding my Z on those streets...

I tried to think as I am driving the bus, and I will not be able to stop the wheel in place in emergency, but instead it'll take me some "efforts" to stop it (like couple metres on the bus).

If you will be concerned about your stopping (braking) time, you'll aim up front, trying to predict oncoming situations, roundabouts, junctions or other such places...

Just think ahead in advance.

There're some tricks to stop in emergency too.

I never tried (been forced) to practice it (hopefully) but it worth to mention, that I was told to try to turn (change direction) with the wheel while braking, it is only in emergency!

It might end up with falling off...

If you think of braking in straight line, it will eat few metres before you'll stop (if you going fast).

If you think of trying to change direction together with braking applied, then you'll cause the Z's tyre to work against the direction you're going, it might be helpful to stop the wheel quicker to avoid accident.

Bear in mind I might remember it wrong, or I misunderstood something, as it was a while ago I read about it, so before you even think of what I said, please do your own research and ask questions to make sure what you're doing.

Emergency braking it's always risky.

Suddenly something happens and there's not time to get prepared, you have to act immediately!

So it's always much better to avoid that happens, and think (plan) ahead ...

Best regards!

 

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I'm out of town so can't test different psi settings right now.  I went out the other day and dropped my pressure down from 32 to 26 to see how it felt.  I didn't like it at all.  I had mentioned that it felt less stable which yes I agree goes against what others have posted.  Maybe part of it is that I've only got 12 miles on the Z10 so far and I'm not completely used to it yet.  I got back from my ride at 26 psi and pumped it up to 30.  I rode for a little bit around the driveway and street to see how it felt.  It felt good but I need to put some miles on it to be sure.  I'll have to go back to the middle school testing grounds.  ;)

I have owned/ridden a lot of sport bikes over the years and the Z10 tire/wheel setup seems very similar.  My personal preference has always been to run my cycle tires at approx. 3 or 4 psi less than the max psi stamped on the tire and I've had good results with that.  On occasion I sometimes would just hop on the bike and go without checking the tires and while riding notice a bit of looseness only to find out that my tire psi would be at least 10-15 lbs lower.  The Z10 felt like that when I had the pressure at 26 psi.  I weigh 210 lbs/95.3 kgs at present and most of the surfaces that I ride on are pretty smooth for the most part.  I have to say though that the tramline effect  has been pretty non-existent at 32 psi.

I'll keep playing with it.  I really love this wheel so I know I'll be putting a lot of miles on it.

 

Edited by Senior Coffee

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18 hours ago, Planemo said:

Your findings are interesting, if somewhat unusual.

I found the Z far more twitchy at higher pressures by a large margin. Plus it was a much harder (overly harsh imo) ride. I am quite confident of my feelings on these two points. As for tramlining, I'm not so sure. I had always thought that it was worse at high pressure, but tbh I never spent long enough at high pressures for that thought to be conclusive.

I really need to get mine to 32psi and test it out on a suitable piece of tramline inducing terrain. The below would be a perfect Z test bed, unfortunately its in another country, posted by another Z rider. 

P1150069_resize.JPG.8b7ec146a47f851dca744bbf9550d005.jpeg.15b97a79798566597cc6d0e5fb1f5f21.jpeg

That's a good one to test.  I'd like to try something like that with mine here.  I'll have to see if I can find something similar.

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10 hours ago, Senior Coffee said:

I'm out of town so can't test different psi settings right now.  I went out the other day and dropped my pressure down from 32 to 26 to see how it felt.  I didn't like it at all.  I had mentioned that it felt less stable which yes I agree goes against what others have posted.  Maybe part of it is that I've only got 12 miles on the Z10 so far and I'm not completely used to it yet.  I got back from my ride at 26 psi and pumped it up to 30.  I rode for a little bit around the driveway and street to see how it felt.  It felt good but I need to put some miles on it to be sure.  I'll have to go back to the middle school testing grounds.  ;)

I have owned/ridden a lot of sport bikes over the years and the Z10 tire/wheel setup seems very similar.  My personal preference has always been to run my cycle tires at approx. 3 or 4 psi less than the max psi stamped on the tire and I've had good results with that.  On occasion I sometimes would just hop on the bike and go without checking the tires and while riding notice a bit of looseness only to find out that my tire psi would be at least 10-15 lbs lower.  The Z10 felt like that when I had the pressure at 26 psi.  I weigh 210 lbs/95.3 kgs at present and most of the surfaces that I ride on are pretty smooth for the most part.  I have to say though that the tramline effect  has been pretty non-existent at 32 psi.

I'll keep playing with it.  I really love this wheel so I know I'll be putting a lot of miles on it.

 

It was the time I didn't like 25PSI at all, and inflated my tyre back to 30PSI immediately.

After I gained some more experience, I started fancy lowering the pressure back again.

I ended up on 21PSI.

The Z feels much more safe while getting over the bumps, holes etc.

I found it being much more controllable when riding different surfaces, especially rough street's areas.

The same spot I was struggling to pass next to the cars (very narrow,street surface crap) when on 30PSI , I started going more bravely, feeling in charge and safe to go while riding on 21PSI.

The same regarding pedestrian brick ways, or such...

This is my own experience though, everybody is different 🙂

 

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