How do you lunatics ride super high PSI?!

[seage]

This isn't a "hey, what is  a good pressure for my tire?" thread. This is a HOW?! EXPLAIN ME! EXPLAIN MEEE!!! Thread.

So i found out that i STILL don't know how to ride an EUC. I've been riding pretty low air pressure so the way my wheel handles has been totally different from everyone else as well. 

I tried a nikola 100v the other week and as soon as i stood on it and went to turn right, i almost fell off the left side as the tire just stayed up and i wasnt ready for it. I just assumed it had to do with this gyro everyone has been going on about. And that it was because of the 3 inch tire. Yep, thats it. I can go on and live another misinformed day. 

So okay, i'm riding with friends on saturday and its all squishy as usual. But then as i hit some curbs i can feel the rim getting hit. Damn, time to pump it up. We go to a gas station and put in some air. The first thing i found out was my psi was under 20, lol....Thats not good for a dude whos around 220-230 without gear. So my buddy, whos all muscle was like, i'll put it to 40 like me. So he does. I get on...and suddenly i had a nikola. Not in like, performance, but it just stood up and wobbled and was terrifying. So i stop, take out some air. Take out a lotttt of air. Drop it down to 30psi. Now, its still scary. Takes me a few km of being in the back of the pack, playing catchup before it finally clicks and im shooting around, then suddenly i get it. Its so nimble and stable and sexy. I was having a blast. 

So today I decided that i was going to be a man and pump it up to the numbers it deserves to be based on my weight under load. So i put 44psi in this badboy and back to stage one i went. Just came back in from screaming around long bends. I couldn't even hit 40kmph because i was so scared. I kinda got the hang of sharp bends. I was able to really lean it, as the wheel just stands straight and turns casually which throws me off the opposite side, lmao. Now thats the problem with long bends. I cant hold the wheel in a nice lean, so it straightens up and now im fighting not to fall off the other side like a loser. I guess i just need practice and to get used to the different dynamics..... How/why do you ride so high? And any tricks you found to keep yourself from falling off the opposite side of your wheel everytime you had to make a small turn at any significant speed?

One thing I noticed at 30psi over 20psi was that turning at speed, on a dime was easier. I was able to avoid stuff really easily and it felt so nimble. At 44psi it actually feels LESS nimble. Doesnt feel like i could just shoot in a different direction, but that could just be because im not used to it. So yes, advantages of running high and not under whats good for your weight? (Besides battery life, because holy crap, i used like no energy!)

[Rywokast]

theres no trick, you just get used to it.. 45 is the absolute minimum PSI i will run at before i put more air in, usually 55-60, roll up a 3 inch curb at speed like nothing lol.. 20 psi is amazingly low for your weight, like actually 100% flat tire lmao its understandable why it would feel really weird pumping it up to a normal pressure xD i dont really understand what you mean by fighting not to fall off the other side? i think youre just totally used to the dynamics of riding on a flat so yea it feels like learning all over again lol... you just have to do it, dont give in just keep the pressure at the recommended at least and ride it until youre used to it.. same as initial learning it will just suddenly click and feel normal to you.. on my 18XL i ride at about 55 PSI and im always riding the beeper along windy bike trails and roads and my weight is 120 lbs

Edited September 17, 2019 by Rywokast

[seage]

1 minute ago, Rywokast said:

theres no trick, you just get used to it.. 45 is the absolute minimum PSI i will run at before i put more air in, usually 55-60, roll up a 3 inch curb at speed like nothing lol.. 20 psi is amazingly low for your weight, like actually 100% flat tire lmao its understandable why it would feel really weird pumping it up to a normal pressure xD i dont really understand what you mean by fighting not to fall off the other side? i think youre just totally used to the dynamics of riding on a flat so yea it feels like learning all over again lol... you just have to do it, dont give in just keep the pressure at the recommended at least and ride it until youre used to it.. same as initial learning it will just suddenly click and feel normal to you.. on my 18XL i ride at about 55 PSI and im always riding the beeper along windy bike trails and roads and my weight is 120 lbs

You damn canadians are crazy. I knew it all along. 

Wait...

But no seriously, i actually never hit the rim until just the other day. Ya bois a ninja. Light on my feet. But it was interesting. Going around corners, everyone would just lean in and seemingly float on an angle, all leaning in hard, like a motorcycle. But for me, id have to keep my upper body more straight and turn the wheel with my feet. So if i was turning right, i'd lean the wheel over, and have to push down with my left foot to keep the wheel from just dropping on its side, because there was close to no gyro effect type feeling. The wheel didnt care to be upright, loll. Now on 30, it did. And now on 44 its standing up straight all the time

What i mean is, when i go around a bend, i normally lean in a bit. On a right turn my body would be leaning to the right. But i guess because i dont put enough force in because im not used to it, i lean just a bit to the right, and the wheel pops back up straight again, and it pulls my body over to the left, and i start losing balance, trying to keep leaning over to the right to go around that corner. If that makes sense. 55psi with my fat ass and id pop the tire. But riding the beep huh? I ride 48 usually max. Float at 40-48 when cruising out here. But now im back sub 40! Lets goooo, loll. 

[Rywokast]

Just now, seage said:

You damn canadians are crazy. I knew it all along. 

Wait...

But no seriously, i actually never hit the rim until just the other day. Ya bois a ninja. Light on my feet. But it was interesting. Going around corners, everyone would just lean in and seemingly float on an angle, all leaning in hard, like a motorcycle. But for me, id have to keep my upper body more straight and turn the wheel with my feet. So if i was turning right, i'd lean the wheel over, and have to push down with my left foot to keep the wheel from just dropping on its side, because there was close to no gyro effect type feeling. The wheel didnt care to be upright, loll. Now on 30, it did. And now on 44 its standing up straight all the time

What i mean is, when i go around a bend, i normally lean in a bit. On a right turn my body would be leaning to the right. But i guess because i dont put enough force in because im not used to it, i lean just a bit to the right, and the wheel pops back up straight again, and it pulls my body over to the left, and i start losing balance, trying to keep leaning over to the right to go around that corner. If that makes sense. 55psi with my fat ass and id pop the tire. But riding the beep huh? I ride 48 usually max. Float at 40-48 when cruising out here. But now im back sub 40! Lets goooo, loll. 

lmao.. yea i know what you mean, thats describing exactly what its like on a 16" or below EUC  on 18" EUCs at anything faster than running speed for me they stay almost totally upright and i have to lean hard into turns,, once you get used to it its actually a lot of fun, a bit more of a workout than lazily applying some more pressure with your feet haha,, not that i dont love my small wheels but you dont get any sort of an adrenaline rush from them xD with higher pressure you just have to be a little more assertive haha, lean like you mean it so to speak, terrifying the first time i ever stepped on to an 18" wheel but its like learning to trust the wheel all over again, its interesting switching immediately from the large heavy 18XL to the puny 14" V5F because if i attempted to ride it like i do my 18 i would literally just immediately throw myself onto the street lol,,  but 1600 wh wheels arent cutting it for me any more, even if i can get 110 km out of them.. i plan to get a 2400 wh monster for next summer so i can ride all day  

[seage]

5 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

lmao.. yea i know what you mean, thats describing exactly what its like on a 16" or below EUC  on 18" EUCs at anything faster than running speed for me they stay almost totally upright and i have to lean hard into turns,, once you get used to it its actually a lot of fun, a bit more of a workout than lazily applying some more pressure with your feet haha,, not that i dont love my small wheels but you dont get any sort of an adrenaline rush from them xD with higher pressure you just have to be a little more assertive haha, lean like you mean it so to speak, terrifying the first time i ever stepped on to an 18" wheel but its like learning to trust the wheel all over again, its interesting switching immediately from the large heavy 18XL to the puny 14" V5F because if i attempted to ride it like i do my 18 i would literally just immediately throw myself onto the street lol,,  but 1600 wh wheels arent cutting it for me any more, even if i can get 110 km out of them.. i plan to get a 2400 wh monster for next summer so i can ride all day  

Yeah, i was gripping it and pulling it left and right, which was pretty fun, haha. I do hope i can get that nimbleness back that i had at 30psi with some experience, because i was dodging potholes and manhole covers at the last second at 40+ with ease. I almost died trying my old 16 again. I refused to go over 20kmph, lmfao. Id like the monster too, but i know i'll need to learn to ride the gyro like this before i ride that, because that wheels SUPER stable. When going around a larger bend, do you just lean to the side more than you would on a smaller wheel? I think i am used to hitting those gradual bends with just my feet and that messes me up.

[Mrd777]

37 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

theres no trick, you just get used to it

All true,

Relax, and relax... these wheels love a higher psi, like anything new give it time and you will see the light.

[seage]

1 minute ago, Mrd777 said:

All true,

Relax, and relax... these wheels love a higher psi, like anything new give it time and you will see the light.

I have 3500km of lies on my 18XL, lmao. 

And now its new...geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez. Its like endless learning with EUC's, im telling you.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Lunatic?  LUNATIC!!??    Did someone summon moi?  I used to ride at 62-65 psi until I met some unexpected bumps just a little too fast.    Now I try to keep it under 55 psi.   

To turn at higher speeds you can lean into it, turn your upper body a bit, move arm over to the inner side, and press on the side of the wheel with the outer leg to force the wheel to lean as well.  Just watch out that you don’t skim your pedal if you turn too sharply.     Makes a grinding sound, and it could spin you out possibly if you overdo it most likely.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, seage said:

lean just a bit to the right, and the wheel pops back up straight again

There's a few critical things going on here, which took me some time to figure out, but were obvious in retrospect.

First of all, higher pressure makes the tire "pointy", while less tire pressure makes it more flat. Pointy makes initial turn in faster, and straight line is less stable. Flat makes the tire stable.

Second of all, tire width. Too wide of a tire makes the profile pointy, while too narrow makes it flat.

Third, how you ride into and through the turn. Leaning back and braking into the turn makes the wheel straighten up, while accelerating tightens the turn. This last part is opposite of motorcycles, because accelerating on a motorcycle increases rake while no such thing occurs when you accelerate on an EUC, but then again EUCs are very dangerous when approaching their top speeds.

All EUCs require some back and forth weaving when riding in a turn, because they have no rear wheel to provide the rider constant force to act upon. They have no "centerboard" to tack against, so to speak.

So with these criteria in mind, we can now make a flow chart to make handling neutral.

Falls into turns > reduce tire pressure.

Too stable in turns > increase tire pressure.

Falls into turns and max tire pressure (65+ psi) > get narrower tire.

Too stable into turns and min tire pressure (20- psi) > get wider tire.

Assuming everything above is done, and you need to just tiny bit fine tune your turn.

Falls into turns > slow down.

Going wide into turns > speed up.

Tire wear in the center does flatten out the tire profile, so you will have to add significantly more tire pressure towards the tire's end of life.

Finally, should you place comfort or handling first?

You should absolutely place handling first! 

A well adjusted tire might be bouncy or soggy, but so long as it's between 30-65 psi it will handle predictably. 

What does predicable handling on a wheel feel like? It will feel like a line perpendicular to the axis goes through the top of your head, and regardless of whatever bumps and turns you take, the wheel will stay perfectly aligned through the center of your body. This also has the side effect of eliminating most speed wobbles, because bumps will push the wheel without yawing, whereas a wheel pushed hard against only one leg will wobble quite a bit when hitting a bump, as the wheel tilts away from the rider's centerline.

Unfortunately this does means tire pressure is specific to every rider.

Edited September 17, 2019 by LanghamP

[seage]

21 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Lunatic?  LUNATIC!!??    Did someone summon moi?  I used to ride at 62-65 psi until I met some unexpected bumps just a little too fast.    Now I try to keep it under 55 psi.   

To turn at higher speeds you can lean into it, turn your upper body a bit, move arm over to the inner side, and press on the side of the wheel with the outer leg to force the wheel to lean as well.  Just watch out that you don’t skim your pedal if you turn too sharply.     Makes a grinding sound, and it could spin you out possibly if you overdo it most likely.

Im always worrying about that pedal scrape. Luckly only had it at slower speeds during 180's. I ride with my left side leading a bit, so i end up kinda air sitting on left turns and leaning normally into rights. Carving when going faster seems to feel like the only way to do it, probably because im used to having a large contact point on the ground at speed and now i feel like im riding on the edge of a knife.

And 55psi is still super high. Curious as to why you like riding so high? Outside of the safety of the inner tube of course. 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I dunno.  Initially it was to avoid needing to re-inflate as often due to a leaky tire.  With my Ninebot One E+ I had it at 50-55 psi. On the Tesla it just crept up to 65 psi.  The tire feels solid, and you can’t squeeze it at all between your fingers.  I’ve tried it at lower pressure, and it just feels so squishy flat plus there must be increased drag on the tire.  The wheel just comes alive and is very responsive with more air.

I weigh about 168 lbs, and the responsiveness is really zippy.  I haven’t found any issues going in a straight line at the higher pressures over 40 kph.

After seeing people report issues with pinch flats and bent rims, I still like the tire in the upper range.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Rywokast]

5 hours ago, seage said:

Yeah, i was gripping it and pulling it left and right, which was pretty fun, haha. I do hope i can get that nimbleness back that i had at 30psi with some experience, because i was dodging potholes and manhole covers at the last second at 40+ with ease. I almost died trying my old 16 again. I refused to go over 20kmph, lmfao. Id like the monster too, but i know i'll need to learn to ride the gyro like this before i ride that, because that wheels SUPER stable. When going around a larger bend, do you just lean to the side more than you would on a smaller wheel? I think i am used to hitting those gradual bends with just my feet and that messes me up.

haha,, yea im leaning way off the side and bending my knees around large bends at speed.. smaller or tight corners i lean back and use my feet like a smaller wheel albeit with a lot more force

[tumbla.jr]

Just over 135. I ride with nothing less than 45psi now. Anything less make my wheel feel like i'r riding through mud. I love how it carves the tarmac up with the higher psi. Most of my riding is in the city so it works out pretty good for me..

[Michael Vu]

20 hours ago, Rywokast said:

theres no trick, you just get used to it.. 45 is the absolute minimum PSI i will run at before i put more air in, usually 55-60, roll up a 3 inch curb at speed like nothing lol.. 20 psi is amazingly low for your weight, like actually 100% flat tire lmao its understandable why it would feel really weird pumping it up to a normal pressure xD i dont really understand what you mean by fighting not to fall off the other side? i think youre just totally used to the dynamics of riding on a flat so yea it feels like learning all over again lol... you just have to do it, dont give in just keep the pressure at the recommended at least and ride it until youre used to it.. same as initial learning it will just suddenly click and feel normal to you.. on my 18XL i ride at about 55 PSI and im always riding the beeper along windy bike trails and roads and my weight is 120 lbs

Completely right. You just have to get used to riding with less rubber is hitting the ground. A lower PSI causes more tire rubber to contact the surface which in turn offers more stability. I like to ride at a higher PSI not only to avoid rim damage, but it increases the wheels range and performance since the motor doesn't have to work as hard.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Michael Vu

[Phong Vu]

man... after read this thread ytd, I try to ride my wheel today at 35 psi to work, just to see how is it, and that was a big mistake...

Turning while riding (to avoid obstacles) is sooo unstable... in fact I crash the wheel in the middle of intersection (but part of that I can blame the wet manhole and Toronto's endless construction...).

Luckily there is no car near by...

I've just pump it back up at 45 psi and will never let it run low again...

  

[houseofjob]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:12 PM, seage said:

So today I decided that i was going to be a man and pump it up to the numbers it deserves to be based on my weight under load. So i put 44psi in this badboy and back to stage one i went. Just came back in from screaming around long bends. I couldn't even hit 40kmph because i was so scared. I kinda got the hang of sharp bends. I was able to really lean it, as the wheel just stands straight and turns casually which throws me off the opposite side, lmao. Now thats the problem with long bends. I cant hold the wheel in a nice lean, so it straightens up and now im fighting not to fall off the other side like a loser. I guess i just need practice and to get used to the different dynamics..... How/why do you ride so high? And any tricks you found to keep yourself from falling off the opposite side of your wheel everytime you had to make a small turn at any significant speed?

One thing I noticed at 30psi over 20psi was that turning at speed, on a dime was easier. I was able to avoid stuff really easily and it felt so nimble. At 44psi it actually feels LESS nimble. Doesnt feel like i could just shoot in a different direction, but that could just be because im not used to it. So yes, advantages of running high and not under whats good for your weight? (Besides battery life, because holy crap, i used like no energy!)

On 9/16/2019 at 10:02 PM, seage said:

Yeah, i was gripping it and pulling it left and right, which was pretty fun, haha. I do hope i can get that nimbleness back that i had at 30psi with some experience, because i was dodging potholes and manhole covers at the last second at 40+ with ease. I almost died trying my old 16 again. I refused to go over 20kmph, lmfao. Id like the monster too, but i know i'll need to learn to ride the gyro like this before i ride that, because that wheels SUPER stable. When going around a larger bend, do you just lean to the side more than you would on a smaller wheel? I think i am used to hitting those gradual bends with just my feet and that messes me up.

Higher PSI riding means the tire becomes thinner, so I ride with a wider stance for more balance/stability when riding high PSI or on a thinner tire EUC altogether. And I widen my stance not by the whole foot, I've been realizing, but flaring out more my heels accordingly, seeing as our whole body weight is naturally over the heels (toes/forefoot remain relatively flush with the pedals and closer to the wheel body).

Turning by gripping the wheel body is a bit limited IMHO. I get much better "nimbleness" for any wheel by keeping my torso always centered over the wheel center of mass (so left leaning wheel body means the torso is over the right shell), while my legs and wheel body only, do the leaning (via exchanging knee bends leg-to-leg, and exchanging heel weight emphasis (heel is pressed by the locked leg)). 

 

Also, for me, FWIW, I aim to not be either too over-inflated, nor too under-inflated, as air pressure will be personal for all based on rider payload. To get "my PSI number" for a specific wheel model + tire, I go by feel of me on said wheel, aiming to get a feeling of "firm bounce", ie somewhere between "rock hard" and "bouncy". I find I don't get good side tread grip on turns if I over-inflate.

 

On 9/16/2019 at 11:12 PM, seage said:

Im always worrying about that pedal scrape. Luckly only had it at slower speeds during 180's. I ride with my left side leading a bit, so i end up kinda air sitting on left turns and leaning normally into rights. Carving when going faster seems to feel like the only way to do it, probably because im used to having a large contact point on the ground at speed and now i feel like im riding on the edge of a knife.

Why?

Pedal scrape is pedal scrape, and technically you have a little more angling to go, as the pedal folds up with you on it, if you're worried about the 45º cutout that prevents the wheel from rolling after a drop.

[seage]

On 9/17/2019 at 1:00 AM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I dunno.  Initially it was to avoid needing to re-inflate as often due to a leaky tire.  With my Ninebot One E+ I had it at 50-55 psi. On the Tesla it just crept up to 65 psi.  The tire feels solid, and you can’t squeeze it at all between your fingers.  I’ve tried it at lower pressure, and it just feels so squishy flat plus there must be increased drag on the tire.  The wheel just comes alive and is very responsive with more air.

I weigh about 168 lbs, and the responsiveness is really zippy.  I haven’t found any issues going in a straight line at the higher pressures over 40 kph.

After seeing people report issues with pinch flats and bent rims, I still like the tire in the upper range.

Took a few days and the biggest ride of my life, but ive got it now and can ride at speed a get. Gets sketchy when my legs are tired though, haha. 

But i feel you on the zippiness. I love it now. It feels sooo good in and out of corners. And yeah, the way i ride, bent everythings was on the menu for me. 

[seage]

On 9/17/2019 at 3:16 AM, Rywokast said:

haha,, yea im leaning way off the side and bending my knees around large bends at speed.. smaller or tight corners i lean back and use my feet like a smaller wheel albeit with a lot more force

Got it! I figured it out eventually, lol. I use both when neccessary. Seems to work out. Actually, i dont really know what im gonna do until that moment, i react to what i feel, haha. 

[seage]

On 9/17/2019 at 1:09 PM, tumbla.jr said:

Just over 135. I ride with nothing less than 45psi now. Anything less make my wheel feel like i'r riding through mud. I love how it carves the tarmac up with the higher psi. Most of my riding is in the city so it works out pretty good for me..

My first day in the city with the higher psi scared me, because i was bouncing all over. Had to get used to controlling it even when it leaves the ground. I've been more used to staying very connected to the pavement, lol. I see it in my mind like....you would be riding a regular tire, and id be riding one of those track wheel things that they have on construction vehicles. It kinda sloths through things even when changing elevation, where as you'd bounce off stuff and go flying, lol. Getting more used to this though XD. 

[seage]

On 9/17/2019 at 5:57 PM, Michael Vu said:

Completely right. You just have to get used to riding with less rubber is hitting the ground. A lower PSI causes more tire rubber to contact the surface which in turn offers more stability. I like to ride at a higher PSI not only to avoid rim damage, but it increases the wheels range and performance since the motor doesn't have to work as hard.

Thats one thing I really noticed. My wheels range has gotten even better, which i didnt think was possible. But here we are. Its a real benefit. 

[seage]

21 hours ago, Phong Vu said:

man... after read this thread ytd, I try to ride my wheel today at 35 psi to work, just to see how is it, and that was a big mistake...

Turning while riding (to avoid obstacles) is sooo unstable... in fact I crash the wheel in the middle of intersection (but part of that I can blame the wet manhole and Toronto's endless construction...).

Luckily there is no car near by...

I've just pump it back up at 45 psi and will never let it run low again...

  

Oh man, im glad you're okay, but damn, i laughed a bit because I almost died in the city the other day due to that stupid construction, im sorry. Toronto is so shit and yet I love it too, loll. Funny though, 35 isnt even low for me. I was at like 17psi. 35 i could throw around like a toy. Theres no resistance to how you push and pull it. And at least for me, it was super stable. For me, unstable is going 45, hitting some rough ground and the wheel is bouncing side to side between my legs. When your wheel is basically flat on the bottom, first off, you're barely bouncing, and second, itjust....stays flat. But not by itself. It doesnt pull itself upright like a more inflated tire. 

Anyways, have we met? I also ride in toronto. Are you part of the crew?

[seage]

4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Higher PSI riding means the tire becomes thinner, so I ride with a wider stance for more balance/stability when riding high PSI or on a thinner tire EUC altogether. And I widen my stance not by the whole foot, I've been realizing, but flaring out more my heels accordingly, seeing as our whole body weight is naturally over the heels (toes/forefoot remain relatively flush with the pedals and closer to the wheel body).

I noticed that in your older 18XL ride through town, that the thing that was pivoting and moving outwards was your heels. I do that when im going to ride in toronto. Makes me more more nimble, navigating cars. Out in the boonies where i live, where i have to ride for 3 days before seeing a horse, i stand in a lazy way and just go straight, lmfao. 

4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Turning by gripping the wheel body is a bit limited IMHO. I get much better "nimbleness" for any wheel by keeping my torso always centered over the wheel center of mass (so left leaning wheel body means the torso is over the right shell), while my legs and wheel body only, do the leaning (via exchanging knee bends leg-to-leg, and exchanging heel weight emphasis (heel is pressed by the locked leg)). 

Now this i'll need to see. In that video that you're putting out soon......................soon....................

lol. But no really. I think i get you, because i had to keep my own center of balance when i ran a lower psi, so i couldnt just lean in. But that feels quite literally impossible with this new psi. The wheel almost needs me to throw my weight. I start in with my leg and lean the wheel in, then take over with my feet (the pressure leaves my leg) and keep my body tipped to the side. I got to practice all this yesterday as I went on a 105 mile ride for 15 hours. 

4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Why?

Pedal scrape is pedal scrape, and technically you have a little more angling to go, as the pedal folds up with you on it, if you're worried about the 45º cutout that prevents the wheel from rolling after a drop.

Its just one of those things. Like tiltback. For me, i get sketched out hitting tiltback so i always ride right up to about 48kmph sometimes 49, but just under tiltback. I actually rode to 49.9 as my top speed. Tilt being at 50, lmao. Call it my dumb quirk that i'll get over once i start really pushing. 

 

But yeah, that long ass ride yesterday PRETTY much killed this whole thread. I can ride at a higher psi now and its not sketchy or scary anymore as i had hours upon hours, onroad, offroad, on gravel, over rocks, tree roots, up and down hill, through sprinklers, to practice in one session. I got it, lmao. I guess thats the take away..if you want to learn anything, break yourself. 

[meepmeepmayer]

Have you ever tried an mten3? Just wondering

2 minutes ago, seage said:

I guess thats the take away..if you want to learn anything, break yourself. 

That's very true!

[meepmeepmayer]

Wheels not coming with fully inflated tires or with a VERY clear instruction telling people to pump the tire up is another thing that gets many people.

[seage]

6 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wheels not coming with fully inflated tires or with a VERY clear instruction telling people to pump the tire up is another thing that gets many people.

I think for me, i knew more pressure was a better idea, but when i tried it I thought i was gonna die. SO i figured id raise it as i got better. From the 16 to the 18 it was a big jump in technique. The pressure was actually REALLY high when i got it, and i felt every bump and bounced all up and down the street. Plus speed wobble was my best friend. But now that ive had months of wrecking my tire, now that im finally respecting it, im doing so without annnny speed wobbles and a lot better form. Just took me a while to handle the behavior