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Just saying hi. I'm joining to have a place to ask questions before I need to.

This is my first device ever - and my 70th birthday present to myself. The S8 is intended to be used at my retirement community in the long distances because I can ride a trike, but I can't walk much.

Is there anyone else here who is doing anything similar?

It came out of the box, assembled easily, charged in under three hours.

I tested the remote function. Then I hopped on and rode the carpeted fourth floor hallways - and learned to use the thing. Love the seated position - can envision it saving me a lot of energy getting places here. Using a walker is a lot of work, but my back muscles can handle this just fine.

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I have a 680Wh Airwheel S5 (the one on the left in the photo below), and trying to buy a second one. Haven't tried any remote operation, the device is easy to use and (so far) failsafe. I did have trouble with the much smaller batteries of the MiniPRO, and would expect the same issues with the smaller 260Wh batteries used by the Airwheel S8. The miniPRO didn't have enough guts to handle my 200lb weight. Even a minor obstacle (eg a stone or small pinecone) can cause problems. Of course the Airwheel S5 charges through anything, and has never gotten close to running out of power. So I am not sure about the S8, but I would offer caution about handling small ledges or paving irregularities.

They do seem to have potentially-more-powerful geared motors in the S8. It is a mature product so Airwheel had a lot of experience with safety and stability issues before they designed the S8. The Engineering quality of the Airwheel products I have seen has been excellent! So I suspect you will have a lot of fun with it! Maybe even go for the occasional run outside the community! Especially if you can find somebody else to also buy one, and accompany you on those longer jaunts!

S5_compared_with_S3.jpg

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Hi!

I'll be using it outside a bit, as the city of Davis has a greenway right next to our community, and Davis is flat. The walkways are not in the best condition - cracks in the asphalt - but I haven't had any trouble getting around on my adult trike. The S8 has a 120kg weight limit, and I'm up there with you, but it hasn't proved a problem yet. No hesitation.

My main use will be doing things in this huge sprawling building - things which use up too much of my limited energy just to get to right now. I have several friends who use motorized wheelchairs - we will be going for outdoor rides.

I'm just surprised at how easy it was for me, basically an older person, to get on and control my first hover-anything. It's been fun to see the faces of those I've shown it to already.

Unfortunately, I have to get it past a vetting process, and 'get a letter from my doctor,' which is a travesty. Most people here are older than we are.

Most people probably don't use the seated things until they're in the wheelchair-enabled part of life. I have a unique combination of spinal problems (can't stand much), strong muscles, and extremely low energy that make me want my new ride; I'm NOT ready for a wheelchair at all, and don't need its expense or features. The Airwheel is what comes up when you google 'seated Segway.' I'm VERY stable sitting on the S8 - much more than I am standing. And high enough to be at eye level, an unexpected bonus.

Failsafe is nice - it just stops and stands there.

Thanks for the positive comments about Airwheel quality - I've seen some negative ones online - the only thing I've noticed, when assembling it, that cause a small qualm was the tiny and fragile connector and wires from the seat to the base. I won't be disassembling unless there are problems, but I would have liked something sturdier in appearance.

I seem to be an outlier in just about everything I do. I wonder if there are local clubs in California, but am not likely to connect with one. Just to get to the piano lounge and the indoor pool.

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Segway-like vehicles are covered by the ADA. You really shouldn't be asked for a Doctor's letter, anybody who knows the law knows that your choice that you need "an assistive device" is quite enough under the ADA law for you to be allowed to use it. As they say in the link below, "People with disabilities have the right to choose whatever mobility device best suits their needs. For example, someone may choose to use a manual wheelchair rather than a power wheelchair because it enables her to maintain her upper body strength. Similarly, someone who is able to stand may choose to use a Segway® rather than a manual wheelchair because of the health benefits gained by standing. A facility may be required to allow a type of device that is generally prohibited when being used by someone without a disability when it is being used by a person who needs it because of a mobility disability."

https://www.ada.gov/opdmd.htm

 

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Thank you. Downloaded and saved and printed.

You are VERY kind to even answer - most appreciated, and don't feel any obligation. I'm having some fun with this, but just want to get, as quickly as possible, and without the expenditure of too much of the energy I don't have, to just using it safely and wisely, like a grownup in Independent Living.

Now all I have to do is figure out whether a residential NON-Profit facility such as ours (a CCRC - Continuing Care Retirement Community) is included:

Quote

title III entities (businesses and non-profit organizations that serve the public) (together, "covered entities")

The other bit is that the ADA only applies to businesses open to the public, and public parts of other facilities. I'm not sure we are covered, even though some parts of the facility are 'open to the public,' such as the dining facility I want to get to on the main floor. Which might mean that someone who comes to lunch can do as he likes, but someone who lives here may not be able to. I've come aground on that rock before: I need a handicapped-accessible bathroom, but they are NOT required to pay for it, not even during the renovation that covered every speck of our two-bedroom apartment - they said I'd have to pay over $8,300 for an accessible shower; I bought a shower seat on Amazon for $50, and take most of my showers in the handicapped stalls in the dressing room by the pools, which have fold-down seats.

I don't want to cause problems, and won't if I don't have to, but this non-profit facility gets away with creating new rules whenever they like. I don't feel like paying $65 nor in having to get my doctor to write a letter (possibly charging me for an assessment). At least one resident told me she had been interviewed IN her electric mobility device, and then, when they trotted this out, told them she'd agree to be vetted, but at their expense, and she would not provide a letter from her doctor for something she's been using for years.

Quote

...unless there is a legitimate safety reason that it cannot be accommodated.

There are plenty of fine lines to cross, and fine distinctions to make. Safety - of the OTHER elderly and disabled people here who use walkers, or walk very slowly - is always a consideration.

I have been sitting in my walker, looking behind me, and propelling myself at appropriate speeds depending on other people present FOR OVER A YEAR here, and they haven't banned that (it hurts to walk). I, luckily, have not bumped into a person or damaged property. If I had a dollar for every person who has suggested I get a rear-view mirror, I could have paid for the Airwheel.

According to our contract, URC is a 'California non-profit public benefit corporation.' Whether that is also a title III covered entity, I still have to determine.

Apparently all the regulations have been created because ONE gentleman was a menace in his motorized assistive device, 'even when standing still'! They tell me he is no longer with us.

Typical - laws passed for law-abiding citizens with common sense to be told they can't do what they weren't going to do anyway.

Very informative chatting with you, and thanks again for providing information I didn't even think to look for. Will let you know how it all ends up. I've already broken their first rule, which is to get their permission in writing BEFORE buying my device; my defense will be I intend to use it outside if they get difficult. I think it's all in how you present your case when it starts.

 

 

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PS  The information will be extremely useful when I use the Airwheel for a visit to, for example, a museum - people with disabilities can choose their mobility device, even if the facility doesn't generally allow those devices.

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The ADA applies to every merchant/supplier/instrumentality in the USA. That is why there are multiple 'titles,' each for a different target. Your non-profit, which is absolutely supposed to follow the ADA, is clearly taking management authority too far whenever it starts to interfere with your management of your disability. Congress gave that law real teeth, and the strengthening in 2016 was specifically done to stop others (eg management) trying to interfere with your right to live the life you want to live. You don't even need a Doctor's diagnosis, just a disability which "substantially limits one or more of the individual's major life activities."

Hope that info is some help. This is one area where "Two-Wheeled Self-Balancing PEV's" are going to increasingly helping people have fun, whether that is off-road exploring or just getting through one's daily routine :D

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The ADA, Title III, applies to exactly 12 categories, of which only the first remotely applies to a retirement community:

Quote

What is a place of public accommodation? A place of public accommodation is a facility whose operations --
Affect commerce; and
Fall within at least one of the following 12 categories:
1) Places of lodging (e.g. , inns, hotels, motels) (except for owner-occupied establishments renting fewer than six rooms);

The 2016 regulations extend that detail to:

For purposes of this part, a facility is a “place of lodging” if it is –

(i) An inn, hotel, or motel; or

(ii) A facility that –

(A) Provides guest rooms for sleeping for stays that primarily are short-term in nature (generally 30 days or less) where the occupant does not have the right to return to a specific room or unit after the conclusion of his or her stay; and

(B) Provides guest rooms under conditions and with amenities similar to a hotel, motel, or inn, including the following –

(1) On- or off-site management and reservations service;

(2) Rooms available on a walk-up or call-in basis;

(3) Availability of housekeeping or linen service; and

(4) Acceptance of reservations for a guest room type without guaranteeing a particular unit or room until check-in, and without a prior lease or security deposit.

-----

Our facility doesn't qualify in any of the descriptions above, because it is not open to the public. You have to buy in, you live in a particular unit, and you return to it if able after, say, a stay in skilled nursing following an operation.

But the main floor restaurant (La Brisa) and the path TO it from the entrance, through the main lobby, and down part of the first floor hall ARE open to the public!

The categories are exhaustive: if you don't fall under one, you're not included in the ADA regulations. And I believe this is not a 'place of lodging' because, except for the restaurant on the main floor, it is not 'open to the public.' I believe this came up when I tried - and failed - to get them to pay for an accessible bathroom. It's not the equivalent of a hotel - they are not required to make the bathrooms accessible, not even some of them - because the public can't come in here and rent one. I also saw that on a website designed to help owners of residential units figure out what they had to do: if their rental office, for example, is open to the public, THAT has to be accessible - but not the rental units. In the units, a tenant can request reasonable modifications - but they will be at his expense, and may not be granted if management deems them 'unreasonable.'

Management with brains could make a lot of things either accessible, or easy to modify, but they don't always. And accessible kitchens, for example, have different meanings depending on the disability of the renter. They are not interested in making things accessible because they want you to move to Assisted Living when you need more help, though some people get enough help IN their units not to have to move. At their own expense. Up to and including hospice in your Independent Living unit if possible and desirable.

But I will use your argument - 'taking management authority too far whenever it starts to interfere with your management of your disability' - re the doctor letter - my new doctor here hasn't a clue because all he does is routine care. He has specifically stated he knows nothing about ME/CFS, and that their whole health plan - UCDavis Medical Center - has not ONE doctor he can refer me to for treatment (I've been dealing with this kind of medical neglect for almost 30 years already).

Plus I have to be careful because they can cite 'safety' as a concern, and that gives them a lot of discretion. They already use it with moving people to Assisted Living (I hear both sides of stories, and sometimes people's families side with management because they don't want to be bothered).

I'm checking out everything you've said, and saving especially the part about them not interfering with my right to manage my disability as I see fit.

And I have moved here for the rest of my life, so need to not win a battle but lose the war. Others before me have gotten motorized chairs accepted; this is my bit of the fight. Saving face all around is a good idea where the boundaries are fuzzy. My negotiating plan is to not put them in a position where they feel they can't retreat because that would be setting policy for the whole system of Pacific Retirement Services-run retirement communities. And, of course, get my way.

Thanks again for taking the time to write back - you made me do some more homework, and read more of the ADA documents, and being prepared is always good.

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Nice to hear from an S8 owner.  There has not been much talk about them.  I believe Airwheel is no longer making that model, but you would have to ask them directly. 

I think; given that some of your medical issues relate to the spine these two wheel devices might be rather high risk because when the fail or for any reason, such as terrain or obstacles, lose traction on one wheel they can cause a very high acceleration twist/spin of the device which can result in a serious injury itself, not to mention the rider is usually thrown as well.  I think this is the type of thing you might want to discuss with your doctor, how would potential injuries from these devices affect you personally.   

There are a lot of new high tech chairs, some with large wheels, that use Lithium batteries, light weight construction, and are in the 2-3K price range that might be worth looking at.  Speed of these devices might be a bit limited still though.  The Forcemech chairs come to mind, as being in the lower cost ranges.

Take it easy for longer than you think you should, I hope it works out for you.  These types of machines are really amazing, I'm still hoping Ninebot does not abandon this type of device.

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Hi, Freeride.

I wouldn't be surprised it this model isn't being made any more - I'd guess most people don't use the seated models unless they're in a wheelchair or scooter. One associates hoverboard use with the young.

I'm going to use this, always, very sedately. I have no need for great speed, and Davis is a calm place. I'm not planning to go all-terrain or ride on wet pavement, or go off the bike paths near our facility - not enough energy. But I'm not ready for the traditional mobility devices for the old? elderly? agèd? infirm? There doesn't seem to be an appropriate adjective. And they are a real pain to deal with if you want to go somewhere - we'd have to buy a minivan, and have it fitted with a lift, for most traditional assistive devices.

I probably won't be able to use this for a whole lot of years, but even a few, with the ability to visit places like our museums or the arboretum, will make a psychological difference. I moved from New Jersey, where getting out was limited much of the year, to California for the weather. The S8 specifically is something I've been thinking about and planning for at least three years, hoping they'd still be available when I had a place to use one. The former seated model, the S6, had a 100kg limit which would have been marginal. The S8 has a 120kg limit, plenty.

Maintaining strength in the back muscles is something I'm expecting from the seated position, as well. Maybe I'll even tackle the back surgery that might help - after I finish the trilogy I'm writing, the other main driver for getting rid of a house and yard, and moving while still relatively young.

I'm going to be very careful. I'll probably use it mostly indoors on our long corridors, but oh! the freedom for bits of time. That, and my adult trike, and I'm not institutionalized. It makes a difference.

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I have been reliably informed that because PART of this building is open to the public, the WHOLE building must be ADA compliant, so that little problem went away: I can use my preferred device anywhere.

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Is the Airwheel S8 still being manufactured?

That is a great question, FreeRide! Airwheel seems to be doing "production runs" of product. A few weeks ago I was told that the S5 was discontinued, yet one was shipped to me from the factory just a few days ago! The Canadian distributor's website implies that a special order of S5 is arriving there next month. However, most of the sellers have been winding down their US inventory since Airwheel-USA closed its doors. There also seems to be some confusion about whether the Segway-looking products can still be freely imported through US Customs. I know Segway was trying to get a blanket ban on them.

My suspicion is that the S8 is still being manufactured. I really have little interest in it, for all the reasons you outlined in the safety post above. I have 4 miniPRO gathering dust around here at the moment, since they gave me the dislocated shoulder, and I am using the S5 for everything.

Actually, that's not true. I went to the 1440 Multiuniversity conference center in Scotts Valley a week or two ago, and my wife and I threw two 320Wh miniPRO in the back of the car. But the hill up to our housing accommodation was far too steep for the miniPROs to manage, and even the main incline to the conference center was too steep for me to climb, although my wife did ascend that one OK... Now we know the failure mode (and triggers) of the miniPRO it is much easier to safely push them to their limits. I haven't found any power-limited situations with the S5 yet. Its huge motors, big wheels, and 680Wh battery seem sufficient at 15kmh speeds.

Talking about motors. How did Airwheel fit a gear-train inside the wheel of the S8 (see image below)? Does it step up the torque or step down the torque? This is an innovation over the miniPRO (albeit a potential reliability and maintenance problem). Does anybody know how the 10" wheel and motor of the S8 actually work?

Airwheel_S8_doublewheel_motor_crop.jpg

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I had asked the eBay seller I bought from when the Airwheel I bought was manufactured, and she wrote back that the box said April 2019. I didn't check that when it came, but I will when I go to the storage cage where we stored it in case it needs to go back or for service.

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Best to find somebody to service it locally, I think. They are much the same as the MiniPRO.

The S8 should be reliable, if you don't let it get too wet AND KEEP THE BATTERY CHARGED. There are videos on YouTube showing how to strip apart the various Airwheel models. They make repair a lot easier...

Edited by trevmar

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I'm not going to be riding any time it's wet - and thanks for the battery tip. I'll make sure the charge doesn't get too low. I have the app which is supposed to show battery status, and I figured out today that the four red lights probably correlate with how much charge it has - there were three still lit when I shut it down. The 'manual' is very basic - doesn't mention batteries.

I was thinking that this is a university town - there should be lots of vehicles like this around. It's a bike town, too. Lots of paved off-road paths.

Spent some time outside today, mastering sidewalks, curb cuts, ramps, and slopes; and going over speed bumps smoothly. The thing is surprisingly stable - I thought it would be harder to learn. Also had to get a sense of how wide I am, seated, and how far from the edge of the walks. That last is similar to the adult trike, but less wide - about shoulder width. Don't want to have a wheel go over the edge of the curb.

Fellow residents have taken a liking to me riding the S8, though I doubt many will try one themselves.

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I'm feeling a little sympathy with the younger people who use the unicycles, and have to deal with painful shins. I've ridden every day this week, and my quads are squawking.

Nothing major, but it reminded me it's a different position than I'm used to, and that I'm using muscles in a new way and for a longer time.

Went to brunch on the terrace - S8 was the perfect vehicle for getting there.

Went to the indoor pool, a very long walk usually - to find it was closed due to a major water pipe leak. Before, it would have left me in tears to have expended that much energy getting somewhere, only to not be able to get the swim. Today, I just turned my new mobility device around, and headed back to the outdoor pool - exactly as easy as I have been hoping. I didn't even speed, and looked carefully around corners and at hall intersections.

Also, yesterday, encountered Marketing showing potential buyers around, made a point of demonstrating - we're trying to get more younger people to move here, so I did my bit. Guerilla marketing, a bit, on my part.

The only NEW problem I have is that the S8 is NOT something I'm going to be able to take on an airplane, particularly if they want the lithium ion batteries removed. I checked the Youtube video for replacing batteries, and it's not something you'd want to do in the boarding area after you get to the gate. It would have been so perfect if they had made the batteries removable!

Now I'm in the market for something for travel that DOES have removable batteries. Any suggestions? Thanks! I'll look on other threads here, too.

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Check with the airlines. The battery pack is smaller than the 300 Watt-hours limit, and is not removable. Non-removable batteries are supported in the regulations, and the airlines should allow it. It will have to go onboard with you though, I think, not in checked luggage.

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Thanks. I'm starting to search for information in disabled travel blogs and ADA information sites and ACAA sites (the convention that covers air travel). I hadn't found out about non-removable batteries going onboard - have a lot of figuring out to do so I can have this rather small and compact device at my destination - reliably. The last time we visited our favorite destination at the Riviera Maya, the Grand Palladium, the walking leaning on the walker was exquisitely painful.

The airline stuff I've found on their online sites was not helpful so far, but I'll find it if it's possible. I keep telling myself that they handle full-size electric wheelchairs all the time.

 

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You'll likely have to phone the airlines and find out who is the right person to talk to, and then get something in writing.  They have basically been going with the 'No' route, so it will typically be hard to get a 'yes' out of them.  If the battery does not have UL certification i don't think it will happen, and if it does it only improves your chances a very small amount. 

Good luck and keep us posted on that.  

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On one hand, I have the disability rights people who insist I can take my 'wheelchair of choice' (ie, mobility device). OTOH, I have the people who think lithium ion batteries will explode into flame in a device that has a two-step process to turn it on (which should be sufficient protection against accidental currents).

And the sure knowledge that, in a journey of a thousand steps, someone is going to put a chasm in my path. It only takes ONE counter person, TSA agent, or flight attendant to block progress long enough to miss a plane.

The frustrating bit is KNOWING that a blogger's TWO HUNDRED LB $22k electric wheelchair is transported any time he needs it - which is always.

And that life would be SO much easier when I travel (IF I travel) if I keep my own mobility securely in my own hands all the time by having my own assistive device.

The solution may be to spend another $500, and have my sisters in Mexico order an S8 delivered there for me to use when I'm there. Doesn't help Europe - maybe I'll have to travel by boat from now on.

'Normal' people just walk.

Pray for a miracle cure.

Not complaining. Just saying.

Will post whatever I figure out. I'm DEFINITELY not the only person this affects.

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I worry too much.

The Airwheel S8 fulfills the ADA requirements (unless there are safety issues in a particular venue). From ADA.gov:

 

Quote

 

Wheelchairs, Mobility Aids, and Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices

  • Covered entities must also allow people with disabilities who use other types of power-driven mobility devices into their facilities, unless a particular type of device cannot be accommodated because of legitimate safety requirements. Where legitimate safety requirements bar accommodation for a particular type of device,

    the covered entity must provide the service it offers in alternate ways if possible.

People with disabilities have the right to choose whatever mobility device best suits their needs.


 

 

The battery, 260wh, is less than the 300wh requirement for the FAA (https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/packsafe/more_info/?hazmat=36):

Quote

 

Wheelchairs and mobility devices with lithium ion batteries, normal design, battery installed

Electric wheelchair, mobility scooter

Lithium metal (non-rechargeable lithium) batteries are forbidden with these devices.

The battery may remain installed only if it is securely attached to the mobility device, the battery housing provides protection from damage, and the terminals are protected from short circuit. The battery cables may remain connected only if the device is protected from accidental activation. For complete passenger instructions contact your airline. Advance arrangements and extra check-in time may be necessary.

See the regulation: 49 CFR 175.10(a)(17) (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi- bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&SID=bba5ad06518b529c94e1d67a3270196b& ty=HTML&h=L&r=SECTION&n=49y2.1.1.3.12.1.25.5)

 

The airlines want some warning, and have a wheelchair information card.

 

Thanks for all who weighed in.

This thing is awesome - I'm getting where I need to go here, inside and out. Not the slightest glitch.

Many residents have seen and asked about it - I've demonstrated the basics many times now. Not planning to lend it - so I have no liability problems to deal with.

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Posted (edited)

While looking at eBikes I found that some are using the same sort of planetary gearbox internal to their wheel motors that the Airwheel S8 apparently uses. This overcomes the primary failure of the miniPRO, its inability to provide enough torque in emergency situations. eBikes which are fitted with these motors are rated to climb 30 degree slopes (eg Fiido D2) , while the standard motors are rated to 20 degrees.Yet the top speed does not seem to be affected much, it is obviously limited by law and battery power. issues. Here is a video showing how these motors work:

 

And here is a diagram of the Airwheel R6 motor, showing its lower-ratio two-gear mechanism. This looks more like what they have in the drawing of their S8 motor:

 

 

Airwheel-R6-Electric_Bicycle_Reviews.jpg

Edited by trevmar

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Thanks. Fascinating watching the gears work. You're saying the S8 has a better gearbox. And better than the minipro; I wasn't aware of the problem, but then the minipro can't be used seated, so I didn't look into it. I'm aware of NOT being the primary demographic for a device like this - just happy I can use it. Saves so much of my energy I stopped being afraid to do things around here.

The manual is so minimalist I have no information except on how to ride, but that's enough for my purpose, using it seated. It says 15° degrees for most people, but lighter people may get an 18° slope. I don't think I'll ever give it that much of a workout - too chicken.

I went out for a long ride on the sidewalks and streets and greenway to the doctor's office for a flu shot.

The process is a little scary. I'm putting on a lot of bravado to show it - and me riding it - off here at the retirement community, mostly inside where it practically purrs as I ride it through long carpeted halls.

Outside I have to stay alert - but the power has been there at every little place I was worried it might not be. Cracks in the sidewalk, bumps, uneven slopes, gutters, manhole covers, even the metal plates full of bumps they put on curb cuts for blind people - everything needs me to look ahead and look close. So far so good, but it does create some adrenaline. I'm heavy enough that I was worried about not being able to do things, but that's not the case.

So glad I found this forum - there will come a time when I have questions about batteries and maintenance. Hope I can contribute something, too.

So far everyone likes it - and no one seems to be planning seriously to buy one.

 

 

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@ABEhrhardt MiniPRO has no gears at all, and it cannot supply enough torque to safely handle all situations the MiniPRO finds itself in. Consequently many riders have been thrown and hurt. There are several discussions here on that topic. What caused me to give up on the MiniPRO was when it shut off while going down a steep hill, throwing me and badly dislocating my shoulder. The machine was definitely not being driven outside its parameters at the time, maybe a low battery was the problem? In any case it hurt me without warning, and so I have changed to using the Airwheel S5, which has worked really well (touch wood). I suspect the higher torque from the geared motor in the Airwheel S8 will give it enough margin to cope with any situation you place it in.

Because of the extreme power and torque of my Airwheel S5+ (they are 1500W, designed for off-road with 19" wheels) I find that I no longer have to watch the road ahead for any obstacles under 2" or so, and this makes it really relaxing to ride... If I want to go faster I now have the folding electric bicycle (FIIDO D2).

Edited by trevmar

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On 10/16/2019 at 2:08 PM, trevmar said:

@ABEhrhardt What caused me to give up on the MiniPRO was when it shut off while going down a steep hill, throwing me and badly dislocating my shoulder.

I looked at an image of the S5+, which seems to have lots of power - the off-road part would be great - but I can't stand. The S8+ I have is the best thing I've found for those of us who have to use them seated, and don't want something huge that takes a lot of space. I take up virtually no more space than a standing person (just a little more for my knees sticking out a bit).

Steep slopes are NOT in my future - the 15° slope the S8 can handle is fine for my purposes.

I'm not sure what happens when the S8 runs out of power, but I hope it beeps first.

The manual is so useless I need to find a place to find out about battery power and life. I will go digging here at EUC.

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