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Phraggle

New MSX or KS18S ?

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 I'm about to order a new wheel( likely this week)from Ewheels, I'm pretty certain i want the  new MSX,but for a bit there,the KS18S was seriously in the running. I just wanted to do one last glance back at that possibility before I put a ring on  that finger. I've watched all the comparison vids I can find,reviews etc.,but I figure some of you have one or both,and can either confirm my choice,or cause some last minute reconsideration. 

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MSX 100V will destroy the 18S in top speed, but the 18S has a tougher shell, a proper seat (MSX seat is a joke unless you’re 4 feet tall), and more range than the weak 1230Wh 100V variant. 

Unless, you’re going for the 1600Wh 84V version, then it’s a closer battle, as that wheel will do 35 MPH (battery, weight, load dependent). The 18S is a 67V wheel, and although it can hit 30 MPH (barely) it will take a lot of effort to achieve it. 

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Why would anyone consider the 18S (67V, only 1500W motor) over the 18XL (84V, 2000W motor) at this point, unless did you mean the 18XL? At least MSX vs 18XL is a more interesting/fair/direct comparison (MSX still wins for speed but 18XL at least has a far better shell, Bluetooth speaker, etc).

Edited by AtlasP

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I had the MSX for a year and still have the 18s.

Without question I would buy the 18s over the MSX. Especially since you’re not a speed demon and new to 18” wheels. 

The 18s with the XL pedals is much more comfortable than the MSX and has an incredible amount of range combined with the seat will make you finally realize the freedom “go anywhere” aspect of an EUC.

The true top speed of probably 29mph is fast enough if you plan to stay in bike lanes and off the street. 

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8 hours ago, AtlasP said:

Why would anyone consider the 18S (67V, only 1500W motor) over the 18XL (84V, 2000W motor) at this point, unless did you mean the 18XL? At least MSX vs 18XL is a more interesting/fair/direct comparison (MSX still wins for speed but 18XL at least has a far better shell, Bluetooth speaker, etc).

He asked about the MSX and 18s, not the 18L or XL. 

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Hmmm,i guess i liked  the ks18s for the 28 inch height with seat,seems weird that the smaller ks18xl has the 2000w motor. I like the idea of sitting,which is why the ks18s was appealing , not that I've tried sitting,I have an old msuper and a ninebot one E+,but the taller profile intuitively makes more sense for sitting to me.

 The appeal of the msx is the offroad capabilities, higher speed,higher pedal clearance,better hill climbing. Truthfully, the ks18s's height and seat combo were what sparked my interest,that and larger pedals and being able to set incline on them,mostly for long rides,that's pretty much it,oh and durability. Otherwise,the msx is probably more suitable for my needs. BT speakers are novel,but not a necessity. 

 The seat on the squat msx doesn't look like a natural or comfortable ride,but everything else about it besides the flimsy shell sound like what I want.

 I did wreck pretty bad on my msuper a couple of weeks ago due to cut off at 20mph, and am still hobbled by it( mangled my knee,broke 2 toes,dislocated my shoulder and LOTS of road rash), so safety all of a sudden became important. Also,the wreck did sheer off some screw holes on the msuper. I still can't ride,I can barely walk,so I guess I have a little more time to choose. I have the money and have been peppering poor Jason from ewheels with a litany of questions and emails,so I want to order soon so he doesn't think I'm stringing him along and make it worth his time and patience!

 Again, I'm most likely going for the msx, I'm just having that last minute waffle and wanna give the ks18s its final chance,maybe something I didn't know might pop up,maybe I just have cold feet,either way I appreciate all your input and help.

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2 hours ago, Phraggle said:

cut off at 20mph, and am still hobbled by it( mangled my knee,broke 2 toes,dislocated my shoulder and LOTS of road rash), so safety all of a sudden became importan

Get the 18s. You won’t hear the MSX beeps at all, and the 18s has tiltback to save you. You’ll still appreciate the extra 10mph it can give you over the old Msuper. 

And no, the MSX doesn’t have better hill climbing then the 18s. If you know how to sit on the nose of the 18s you can climb hills about the same or better then the MSX because seated gives you better leverage. Sure, the MSX is stronger but you’d probably lose your balance and fall off the front trying to lean up a hill before you could tap that power. 

Be warned about how uncomfortable the pedal angle is on the MSX. I couldn’t stand riding more than an hour on that wheel. Very uncomfortable.

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I am trying to sell my 18S 1680Wh black if you’re interested. ;) @Phraggle

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I have both wheels and though i love sitting on my 18s, I almost always ride the MSX. It's more powerful, faster, and the 3" tire is just great in comparison. I ride the 18s for novelty these days. I would definitely buy an 18s with the MSX tire and motor if KS upgraded them, love that tall shell!

My experience with MSX is different. I climb hills fine, and the power difference is huge to the 18s. The pedal angle is an issue for a week, like the rest of the 'new wheel' issues.

Edited by Hatchet

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2 hours ago, Hatchet said:

I have both wheels and though i love sitting on my 18s, I almost always ride the MSX. It's more powerful, faster, and the 3" tire is just great in comparison. I ride the 18s for novelty these days. I would definitely buy an 18s with the MSX tire and motor if KS upgraded them, love that tall shell!

My experience with MSX is different. I climb hills fine, and the power difference is huge to the 18s. The pedal angle is an issue for a week, like the rest of the 'new wheel' issues.

I bet you climb hills just fine! when you get momentum before climbing it. 

Do me a favor and stop in the middle of a steep hill. Now try climbing up it on the MSX and compare with seated on the nose of the 18s and tell me which way was easier. 

Its not that the pedal angle is always an issue, it’s that it’s noticeably inferior to the comfort when you go back to the 18s with the XL pedals. I’m always amazed and comment in my head how much more comfortable the 18s is after having ridden the MSX. I’m US size 10 btw so no big feet here. 

I did pick riding the MSX over the 18s on most days when I had them both. But that was because I wanted to be in the streets and I needed the extra speed. And I had run out of places to explore. When I go visit any friends in different cities, the 18s is always the wheel I bring to explore with.

99% of my MSX rides were 1 hour or less. I literally only used it to satisfy my need for speed. I never wanted to explore with it when I had a proper seated wheel for that. 

When I look at my Ks18s rides they were 2-3 hours of adventure, exploration. Enjoyment. All day cruising.

It’s remarkable how efficient seated riding is, and on the MSX pushing 33+mph drained the battery quick, resulting in far superior mileage in the 18s. 

I remember sending my friend a Snapchat video of me riding, and the camera pans down to my feet and the 18s between my legs and the caption reads “my favorite wheel”. (Now *ahem* that was before I got the 100v Nikola...)

 

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55 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I bet you climb hills just fine! when you get momentum before climbing it. 

Do me a favor and stop in the middle of a steep hill. Now try climbing up it on the MSX and compare with seated on the nose of the 18s and tell me which way was easier. 

Its not that the pedal angle is always an issue, it’s that it’s noticeably inferior to the comfort when you go back to the 18s with the XL pedals. I’m always amazed and comment in my head how much more comfortable the 18s is after having ridden the MSX. I’m US size 10 btw so no big feet here. 

I did pick riding the MSX over the 18s on most days when I had them both. But that was because I wanted to be in the streets and I needed the extra speed. And I had run out of places to explore. When I go visit any friends in different cities, the 18s is always the wheel I bring to explore with.

99% of my MSX rides were 1 hour or less. I literally only used it to satisfy my need for speed. I never wanted to explore with it when I had a proper seated wheel for that. 

When I look at my Ks18s rides they were 2-3 hours of adventure, exploration. Enjoyment. All day cruising.

It’s remarkable how efficient seated riding is, and on the MSX pushing 33+mph drained the battery quick, resulting in far superior mileage in the 18s. 

I remember sending my friend a Snapchat video of me riding, and the camera pans down to my feet and the 18s between my legs and the caption reads “my favorite wheel”. (Now *ahem* that was before I got the 100v Nikola...)

 

I have the opposite problem... sitting on an incapacitated Monster V3 100V 2460Wh, Nikola 100V and the 18S just sits there collecting dust, especially since I rigged up a proper foam seat for my Nikola.  

8BE88577-8DDC-42ED-A07D-0C9AA5027E7C.jpeg

Edited by Ben Kim

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16 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

He asked about the MSX and 18s, not the 18L or XL. 

? I clearly know that. Read my comment again. I was asking *why* anyone would be considering the 18S *at all* in 2019 (almost 2020) with its only 67V + 1500W motor. If someone is considering an 18" King Song why would anyone choose the 18S over the 18L/18XL (84V + 2000W motor)?

Alternatively if he's in the minority interested in a seated EUC, then why is the MSX in the comparison? Either the question should be 18S vs Monster, or it should be 18L/XL vs MSX? Otherwise it's a weird apples vs oranges comparison.

Edited by AtlasP

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13 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

? I clearly know that. Read my comment again. I was asking *why* anyone would be considering the 18S *at all* in 2019 (almost 2020) with its only 67V + 1500W motor. If someone is considering an 18" King Song why would anyone choose the 18S over the 18L/18XL (84V + 2000W motor)?

Alternatively if he's in the minority interested in a seated EUC, then why is the MSX in the comparison? Either the question should be 18S vs Monster, or it should be 18L/XL vs MSX? Otherwise it's a weird apples vs oranges comparison.

The monster is almost $1000 more. That’s the only proper seated wheel to consider. Your “why” is just complicating the issue needlessly😄. The man obviously knows what he wants and has told us he did the research and it comes down to these two. 

Furthermore, he has a ninebot and an old Msuper. The 18s will still feel like a revolutionary leap forward in technology to him. 

Edited by Darrell Wesh

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51 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Furthermore, he has a ninebot and an old Msuper. The 18s will still feel like a revolutionary leap forward in technology to him. 

Sure, but the leap could be even bigger :) 

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33 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Sure, but the leap could be even bigger :) 

It’s about the journey not the destination. 

When I look back at my commuter options: starting with a waveboard/ripstik to an old cruiser bicycle to a Segway mini pro to double the range Segway mini plus and finally to EUC’s, I’m thankful for the gradual progression and fun times I had. I wouldn’t want to have jumped from a manual waveboard to a 100v gotway Nikola or Dualtron Thunder. 

When I see the college kids having fun on their ripstiks I sort of feel jealous, even as I’m wizzing past at 30mph. Because they have a long, rewarding journey ahead of them while i’m sadly already at the end waiting for the next. It was such a big adventure to go 1mile down the road on waveboards, 5mile roundtrips to campus and back on the Segways.

Now; I can get anywhere around town too fast to appreciate the journey.

Edited by Darrell Wesh

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Dunno what to tell you. I climb hills fine on the MSX. Better than the 18s, which is much lacking in power by comparison.

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13 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

remarkable how efficient seated riding is, and on the MSX pushing 33+mph drained the battery quick, resulting in far superior mileage in the 18s. 

I don't sit on my wheels but I did test out various body positions; the seated position is extremely energy effecient compared to standing, by about 25% to 40% by guestimate via the instant watt figure given by WheelLog.

While I don't like the idea of sitting on a shell supported by perpendicular screws, and the lack of visibility and maybe control of the seated position, the energy benefits of riding seated is so great that manufacturers might as well offer that option on most of their larger wheels.

Edited by LanghamP

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@benkim

On 9/11/2019 at 9:20 PM, Ben Kim said:

I am trying to sell my 18S 1680Wh black if you’re interested. ;) @Phraggle

Out of curiosity, how much?

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