What happens when you disable all alarms and tilt back?

[chrisjunlee]

Do you still get the Gotway style final beeps before cutoff?

[chrisjunlee]

@US69

[UniVehje]

You just cannot do that.

[chrisjunlee]

7 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

You just cannot do that.

Are you familiar with disabling everything for Gotway? Gotway still alerts you with 5 beeps near cutoff.

Kingsong has adjustable levels for alarms and tiltback, just like Gotway. So I'm asking what's Kingsong's equivalent to Gotway's 5 beep cutoff.

[TomOnWheels]

5 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Do you still get the Gotway style final beeps before cutoff?

Can Gotway predict if there gonna be a hole or a stone on the road and alert before a cutoff ? I'm just thinking about the situation where you are demanding 80% of what the wheel can gives you at that and then suddenly there is a pothole and you decide to accelerate. How it can works ? 

[chrisjunlee]

@mrelwood

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

Are you familiar with disabling everything for Gotway? Gotway still alerts you with 5 beeps near cutoff.

"Near" is correct in that the alert can come before or after a cut-off by overlean.

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

Kingsong has adjustable levels for alarms and tiltback, just like Gotway.

Not at all. On Gotway wheels the tiltback (max 48km/h) can be disabled. On KingSong wheels the tiltback cannot be disabled. It can be set at the advertised max speed or lower. 

Also, Gotway wheels don't have alarms that you can set to go off at a certain speed. On the 84V MSX the first two are something like 25 and 35 KM/H, so completely useless. The last one that can't be removed is at 55-45 km/h, depending on the battery voltage.

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

So I'm asking what's Kingsong's equivalent to Gotway's 5 beep cutoff.

I assume by "5 beep cutoff" you mean the preset speed alarm that can't be removed. KingSong's equivalent is a tiltback that comes up at lower and lower speeds as the battery charge goes down.

You have wheels from both manufacturers. Haven't you checked their apps?

[chrisjunlee]

1 minute ago, mrelwood said:

I assume by "5 beep cutoff" you mean the preset speed alarm that can't be removed. KingSong's equivalent is a tiltback that comes up at lower and lower speeds as the battery charge goes down.

You have wheels from both manufacturers. Haven't you checked their apps?

Yes! Thank you! Finally an answer. Here is your cookie 🍪

The apps are glitchy and poorly translated, so it’s just confusing what the intended actual behavior is. 

[mrelwood]

2 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Yes! Thank you! Finally an answer. Here is your cookie 🍪

Thank you! It's gluten free, right...? 

2 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

The apps are glitchy and poorly translated, so it’s just confusing what the intended actual behavior is. 

Ah, true, I didn't even remember! "Warp speed" / "Ollie speed" etc...  I guess I'm so familiar with the apps that I didn't even remember what the labels say.

[Dariusz]

Is it possible to set the tiltback to 60km/h ?

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Dariusz said:

Is it possible to set the tiltback to 60km/h ?

No. As I wrote earlier:

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

On Gotway wheels the tiltback (max 48km/h) can be disabled. On KingSong wheels the tiltback cannot be disabled. It can be set at the advertised max speed or lower. 

 

[Chriull]

8 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

 Gotway still alerts you with 5 beeps near cutoff.

No - that's wrong. This "80%" alarm has "nothing" to do with an overlean. And even less with an cutoff.

It is "just" an voltage depending speeding alarm.

One can have an overlean without ever getting this 80%/5 beep alarm.

Same as one can overlean a KS without ever getting a tiltback.

For more details on this topic take a look at 

 

[chrisjunlee]

6 hours ago, Chriull said:

No - that's wrong. This "80%" alarm has "nothing" to do with an overlean. And even less with an cutoff.

It is "just" an voltage depending speeding alarm.

One can have an overlean without ever getting this 80%/5 beep alarm.

Same as one can overlean a KS without ever getting a tiltback.

For more details on this topic take a look at 

 

I don't understand, and I can't make sense of the graph - too much going on. Examples please?

[Chriull]

3 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I don't understand, and I can't make sense of the graph - too much going on. Examples please?

The graphs main content is the maximum motor current (proportional to torque) over speed limit.

So if one overleans or not depends on if one needs/uses up all this maximum torque at any certain speed.

So an "serious" alarm/tiltback would have to consider the actual motor current, speed and the wheels max torque over speed limit.

The 3rd Alarm from Gotway alarms at some speed ( since it's often called 80% alarm maybe at 80% of the "lift cut of speeds" depending on battery voltage? - however the real 3rd alarm speeds are gathered here: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/13209-speed-reduction-graph-rider-info-needed/?do=findComment&comment=226677 ).

But as motor current (burden, torque) inflicts a voltage sag at the battery and the 3rd alarm is battery voltage dependend there is in some kind this "real wheel limit" (max torque over speed limit) already regarded.

So my previous statement 

10 hours ago, Chriull said:

No - that's wrong. This "80%" alarm has "nothing" to do with an overlean.

is (?a bit/very?) wrong. How well the wheel limit is regarded by the 3rd alarm is hard to say and would have to be tested to get some real data.

But anyhow a better safety mechanism as just a fixed speed tiltback/alarm.

All this should imho also be the main reasoning behind the attempts by KS to lower tiltback speeds voltage dependend - so this tiltback stays a usefull warning.

 

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I don't understand, and I can't make sense of the graph - too much going on. Examples please?

Example: (Using MSX only because I don't remember the other GW wheels' alarm curves.)

MSX in soft mode, tilt-back at 48km/h, battery at 60%. You cruise at 30km/h checking out the chicks, and a scooter is trying to pass you. You want to show who's who, and rapidly throw yourself in the Michael Jackson pose. The soft mode gives in enough for you to really get in a serious lean. Once you put all your weight on the balls of your feet and grab the Kuji Pads to tilt the wheel even more forward, the wheel finally realizes that pedals are tilting too much even for the soft mode, and starts to accelerate as much as it can, passing all power from the battery to the motor in order to correct the forward tilt. Battery dips to 20%, which brings the "80% alarm" speed threshold down to 46km/h.

At this point even Mr. Jackson would be envious, but to catch and overcome your lean the motor would require even more power than the battery can provide at 20%. At 40km/h you realize that the wheel is still falling forward, and that it can't catch you after all. You throw your hands in the air flailing, and try desperately to engage your legs to take a few running steps, despite going at 46km/h and being almost horizontal at that point. Then you crash, with your body positioned for flying, running and diving, all at the same time.

Final top speed was 48km/h. Tilt-back is set at 48km/h, so not engaged. Pre-programmed "80% alarm" engages at 46km/h when battery is at 20%, but you were already seeing your life flashing in your eyes and wondering wether there is a God after all at 44km/h, so you have no idea wether the wheel actually played some puny beeps or not. You were too busy actually crashing.

End result(s): You got zero warning from the wheel that you are accelerating too fast. Scooter guy went to get his latte. Ambulance picks up your remains to be sewn back up. Girls remain unimpressed.

[UniVehje]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Example: (Using MSX only because I don't remember the other GW wheels' alarm curves.)

MSX in soft mode, tilt-back at 48km/h, battery at 60%. You cruise at 30km/h checking out the chicks, and a scooter is trying to pass you. You want to show who's who, and rapidly throw yourself in the Michael Jackson pose. The soft mode gives in enough for you to really get in a serious lean. Once you put all your weight on the balls of your feet and grab the Kuji Pads to tilt the wheel even more forward, the wheel finally realizes that pedals are tilting too much even for the soft mode, and starts to accelerate as much as it can, passing all power from the battery to the motor in order to correct the forward tilt. Battery dips to 20%, which brings the "80% alarm" speed threshold down to 46km/h.

At this point even Mr. Jackson would be envious, but to catch and overcome your lean the motor would require even more power than the battery can provide at 20%. At 40km/h you realize that the wheel is still falling forward, and that it can't catch you after all. You throw your hands in the air flailing, and try desperately to engage your legs to take a few running steps, despite going at 46km/h and being almost horizontal at that point. Then you crash, with your body positioned for flying, running and diving, all at the same time.

Final top speed was 48km/h. Tilt-back is set at 48km/h, so not engaged. Pre-programmed "80% alarm" engages at 46km/h when battery is at 20%, but you were already seeing your life flashing in your eyes and wondering wether there is a God after all at 44km/h, so you have no idea wether the wheel actually played some puny beeps or not. You were too busy actually crashing.

End result(s): You got zero warning from the wheel that you are accelerating too fast. Scooter guy went to get his latte. Ambulance picks up your remains to be sewn back up. Girls remain unimpressed.

Wow, this is some seriously good writing here and well explained! Thanks for putting the effort. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by UniVehje

[Fer9001]

Just got the feeling of quiting EUC riding after the nice picture of the situation. Second thought is mimicking the old paps on the scooters, never go faster than 15kmh no mater what.

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, Fer9001 said:

Just got the feeling of quiting EUC riding after the nice picture of the situation. Second thought is mimicking the old paps on the scooters, never go faster than 15kmh no mater what.

 Just ride sensibly and you are ok! The modern wheels have such crazy amounts of power that the issues only rise once you start to feel that the wheel is invincible and could do literally anything. That’s how I fried my MSX!

But they can handle even an extremely aggressive riding style, just keep your brains switched on while riding and you’re safe!