KS 16X Overlean -- my first ever and I'm really impressed by its durability!

[Reggie510]

So folks, I experienced my first cut-out every today. Battery at about 40%, traveling 25mph (at least), trying to pass a very slow moving car on a straight, flat road and I overleaned. I'm 160 lbs and I was carrying about 50-60 lbs on my back. Landed (hard) on my knees and chest, followed soon after by my face. Fortunately, I was pretty geared up, including a full face helmet. A minor misfortune is that I don't think I was wearing the left knee pad as tightly as I ought to have and it slid after impact so I ended up with a bit of road rash on my left knee. But the knee pad did its job in absorbing the initial impact, so I'm grateful for that. The car stopped to see if I was OK. Aside from a little shock and a scraped up knee, I was fine.

What I was really impressed by was the fact that my KS 16X was totally intact and in one piece. It ended up about 15-20 feet away from where I landed and it crashed hard and loud. I'm coming from a V8, and a crash like that would likely have resulted in major damage, so I was pretty much expecting to find my KS 16X in pieces. But this thing is a TANK! A couple scrapes here and there, but nothing major. The only thing is that now only some of the LEDs on the left side of the wheel work now, so I guess I'll need to replace them. I figure I'll do that whenever I get around to changing the no-name tire out for a CST or some such. 

Question: Anyone know where I can get a replacement LED strip?

The experience was surreal, tbh. One the one hand, it all happened in less than an instant. On the other hand, it was like it was happening in slow motion. As soon as it cut out and I was flying through the air, I knew exactly that it was a cut out and the cut out was happening because of an overlean and not because I was at top speed/lowish voltage and hit a bump or pothole. Kind of crazy. Feels like I just went through a rite of passage...

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Reggie510

[Marty Backe]

I want to clarify for some more inexperienced people who may read this and be mislead by the choice of words used. @Reggie510 did not experience a cut-out, where the wheel stopped functioning, but instead attempted to accelerate faster than the wheel (most likely any wheel) is capable of accelerating.

So fellow KS16X owners should not be concerned that the wheel has a design fault.

Bravo for having a full complement of safety gear, and glad that you lived to see another day 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Reggie510 said:

So folks, I experienced my first cut-out every today. Battery at about 40%, traveling 25mph (at least), trying to pass a very slow moving car on a straight, flat road and I overleaned. I'm 160 lbs and I was carrying about 50-60 lbs on my back. Landed (hard) on my knees and chest, followed soon after by my face. Fortunately, I was pretty geared up, including a full face helmet. A minor misfortune is that I don't think I was wearing the left knee pad as tightly as I ought to have and it slid after impact so I ended up with a bit of road rash on my left knee. But the knee pad did its job in absorbing the initial impact, so I'm grateful for that. The car stopped to see if I was OK. Aside from a little shock and a scraped up knee, I was fine.

What I was really impressed by was the fact that my KS 16X was totally intact and in one piece. It ended up about 15-20 feet away from where I landed and it crashed hard and loud. I'm coming from a V8, and a crash like that would likely have resulted in major damage, so I was pretty much expecting to find my KS 16X in pieces. But this thing is a TANK! A couple scrapes here and there, but nothing major. The only thing is that now only some of the LEDs on the left side of the wheel work now, so I guess I'll need to replace them. I figure I'll do that whenever I get around to changing the no-name tire out for a CST or some such. 

Question: Anyone know where I can get a replacement LED strip?

The experience was surreal, tbh. One the one hand, it all happened in less than an instant. On the other hand, it was like it was happening in slow motion. As soon as it cut out and I was flying through the air, I knew exactly that it was a cut out and the cut out was happening because of an overlean and not because I was at top speed/lowish voltage and hit a bump or pothole. Kind of crazy. Feels like I just went through a rite of passage...

 

Sooooooo full face plant? Very smart wearing gear man.  Can you imagine the damage to your head and face had you not been wearing a helmet? Some here feel they could bust a move and not hit there head during a 25 mph fall. I know I couldn’t.  Glad you and your wheel are ok. Thanks for sharing 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Patton250

[HarpMudd]

Glad you're ok Reggie. It could have been real bad, especially if you had no protective gear on with the additional 50-60lbs on your back.  As for a replacement led strip, if you bought your wheel from eWheels, I would write Jason, he may sell you one from his parts wheel.

Edited August 29, 2019 by HarpMudd

[Reggie510]

18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I want to clarify for some more inexperienced people who may read this and be mislead by the choice of words used. @Reggie510 did not experience a cut-out, where the wheel stopped functioning, but instead attempted to accelerate faster than the wheel (most likely any wheel) is capable of accelerating.

So fellow KS16X owners should not be concerned that the wheel has a design fault.

Bravo for having a full complement of safety gear, and glad that you lived to see another day 

Thanks Marty -- maybe I didn't make myself clear in my post. The wheel actually did stop functioning. I think I was trying to demand more power from the wheel than it had to give. It completely shut off. That's why I fell. 

I don't attribute the wheel shutting off to a design flaw, but rather that I was demanding way more than it had to give at the time. I'll have to be more careful in the future.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Reggie510

[Gaz Bon]

Hi 

Glad yr OK 

So no alarms sound or the annoying voice please farking decelerate

And no tilt back prior 

Strange if so

[Reggie510]

1 minute ago, Gaz Bon said:

Hi 

Glad yr OK 

So no alarms sound or the annoying voice please farking decelerate

And no tilt back prior 

Strange if so

Actually, now that you mention it, no voice saying please decelerate. Which I have received in the past, but none this time.

Also, if there was tilt back, I didn't notice it. I have to say that the tilt back that I have experienced on the KS 16X is a lot more subtle than the tilt back on the V8. With the V8 it's very obvious. 

[Marty Backe]

6 minutes ago, Reggie510 said:

Thanks Marty -- maybe I didn't make myself clear in my post. The wheel actually did stop functioning. I think I was trying to demand more power from the wheel than it had to give. It completely shut off. That's why I fell. 

I don't attribute the wheel shutting off to a design flaw, but rather that I was demanding way more than it had to give at the time. I'll have to be more careful in the future.

Others may want to dissect this event more. An overlean means you leaned so much that the wheel didn't have the power to keep under you, so you fall off the front. So you are saying that did not happen.

The wheel literally stopped balance and then you fell off the wheel? If this is the case than I'm not sure how I feel. This doesn't bode well for the 16X

[Aba Hanad]

glad you didnt get hurt, i scrapped my knee going 10mph last week and its still annoying me XD

was debating on getting a 16x instead of my 2h ago sold v10f.

the v10f has one annoying tiltback , i would be going 25, try to accelerate a bit and suddenly tilt back with no way to lower the speed safely, thankfully it only happens on empty roads.

i am hoping to get the 16x later this month after my nikola arrive and spend 100 miles on each to decide what to keep, knowing they are built tough is a good thing to keep in mind as i have not seen many 16x crashes (thankfully).

[Yunicycle]

*likes* for wearing full gear. 

I'm SO impressed with how some of you riders are able to carry that much extra weight on your backs and still ride and ride at speed no less   For me, when I can anything over say 20 lbs of additional weight my whole riding balance is thrown off.  🤯

[Reggie510]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Others may want to dissect this event more. An overlean means you leaned so much that the wheel didn't have the power to keep under you, so you fall off the front. So you are saying that did not happen.

The wheel literally stopped balance and then you fell off the wheel? If this is the case than I'm not sure how I feel. This doesn't bode well for the 16X

Ah, I'm glad we're having this discussion. So, at the time, it appeared to cut off. However, I was accelerating at the time that I fell off and when I went to grab the wheel, it was still on. 

Ok, so what I'm understanding is that this was most likely an overlean and not a cut-out. I appreciate your help here in dissecting this Marty.

[eucinsea]

1 minute ago, Reggie510 said:

Ah, I'm glad we're having this discussion. So, at the time, it appeared to cut off. However, I was accelerating at the time that I fell off and when I went to grab the wheel, it was still on. 

Ok, so what I'm understanding is that this was most likely an overlean and not a cut-out. I appreciate your help here in dissecting this Marty.

Thanks for more details Reggie! 

[Aba Hanad]

Just now, Reggie510 said:

Ah, I'm glad we're having this discussion. So, at the time, it appeared to cut off. However, I was accelerating at the time that I fell off and when I went to grab the wheel, it was still on. 

Ok, so what I'm understanding is that this was most likely an overlean and not a cut-out. I appreciate your help here in dissecting this Marty.

most likely,

the motor couldn't handle the extra push and decided to let go.

usually happens to me when i am rolling front and back aggressively but it picks up again fast enough not to fall(110kg guy here) 

[Reggie510]

27 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

Glad you're ok Reggie. It could have been real bad, especially if you had no protective gear on with the additional 50-60lbs on your back.  As for a replacement led strip, if you bought your wheel from eWheels, I would write Jason, he may sell you one from his parts wheel.

Yeah, I did buy it from eWheels -- I'll contact Jason. Thanks!

[Reggie510]

11 minutes ago, Aba Hanad said:

glad you didnt get hurt, i scrapped my knee going 10mph last week and its still annoying me XD

was debating on getting a 16x instead of my 2h ago sold v10f.

the v10f has one annoying tiltback , i would be going 25, try to accelerate a bit and suddenly tilt back with no way to lower the speed safely, thankfully it only happens on empty roads.

i am hoping to get the 16x later this month after my nikola arrive and spend 100 miles on each to decide what to keep, knowing they are built tough is a good thing to keep in mind as i have not seen many 16x crashes (thankfully).

I have to say that in spite of this incident I had, I love this wheel. The ride is smooth (aside from the high speed breaking wobbles, which are greatly reduced by lowering the tire pressure, and which I'm hoping to eliminate by replacing the tire for the CST). I live in a really hilly place, and the torque, compared to my V8 is amazing. Even when traveling on straight, flat roads at medium speed, you can just feel the power. But I guess there are limits to how much power you can summon from this machine. It's sort of addictive 😉. But I'll be much humbler moving forward...

[UniVehje]

5 hours ago, Reggie510 said:

But I guess there are limits to how much power you can summon from this machine.

Yes, especially at speed. Electric motors have amazing torque at the start but it goes down with speed. You may be able do to a "Michael Jackson lean" at 2mph-15mph range, but trying to do it from 25mph to 30 mph is a different thing. There just isn't enough torque at those speeds to accelerate very aggressively, but I guess you've now learned that the hard way. Good to hear nothing serious happened. 

I think the wheel just couldn't keep up with you. Did the pedals dip before you fell? A cut out would mean it just goes limb. And by the way, it will shut off the motor if it dips to 35 or 45 degrees. It's also possible that the pedals did not dip forward and you just fell forward because of too much lean and the wheel couldn't catch you fast enough. If you did accelerate very quickly, I don't think there is anything wrong with the wheel.

Quote

(aside from the high speed breaking wobbles, which are greatly reduced by lowering the tire pressure, and which I'm hoping to eliminate by replacing the tire for the CST)

I have not yet tested the 16X but I think there is a bit more talk about wobbling than it really warrants. I think Kuji put it well on his review, it is very nimble and the trade off is tendency to wobble easier. 

Wobbles when breaking hard from high speed are common to even very experienced riders and on almost any wheel. I predict you will still have them with the new tire. I have more than 7000 km on four different wheels and I still get wobbles when breaking hard from high speed, on all the wheels I've tried. I don't think this is something special for the 16X. It's probably caused by the weird stance when breaking. Riders are just not riding like that very often and the legs are not used to the forces on that position. 

[ir_fuel]

8 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

I have not yet tested the 16X but I think there is a bit more talk about wobbling than it really warrants. I think Kuji put it well on his review, it is very nimble and the trade off is tendency to wobble easier. 

Kuji was paid for his review. Of course he's not going to say the standard tyre is crap for braking stability. And that "nimbleless" contradicts the Z10 alike behaviour which it has when wanting to corner. 

8 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

I predict you will still have them with the new tire.

I predict you don't.

I changed tyres, the difference is noticeable. I have the CST now. What I notice: it feels softer on the road, and I have a lot less wobbles when braking. Running at the same pressure as the original one. For cornering tbh I don't really notice anything, but I'm not very picky about that aspect, coming from a Z10.

[Juggler]

8 hours ago, Reggie510 said:

So folks, I experienced my first cut-out every today. Battery at about 40%, traveling 25mph (at least), trying to pass a very slow moving car on a straight, flat road and I overleaned. I'm 160 lbs and I was carrying about 50-60 lbs on my back. Landed (hard) on my knees and chest, followed soon after by my face. Fortunately, I was pretty geared up, including a full face helmet. A minor misfortune is that I don't think I was wearing the left knee pad as tightly as I ought to have and it slid after impact so I ended up with a bit of road rash on my left knee. But the knee pad did its job in absorbing the initial impact, so I'm grateful for that. The car stopped to see if I was OK. Aside from a little shock and a scraped up knee, I was fine.

What I was really impressed by was the fact that my KS 16X was totally intact and in one piece. It ended up about 15-20 feet away from where I landed and it crashed hard and loud. I'm coming from a V8, and a crash like that would likely have resulted in major damage, so I was pretty much expecting to find my KS 16X in pieces. But this thing is a TANK! A couple scrapes here and there, but nothing major. The only thing is that now only some of the LEDs on the left side of the wheel work now, so I guess I'll need to replace them. I figure I'll do that whenever I get around to changing the no-name tire out for a CST or some such. 

Question: Anyone know where I can get a replacement LED strip?

The experience was surreal, tbh. One the one hand, it all happened in less than an instant. On the other hand, it was like it was happening in slow motion. As soon as it cut out and I was flying through the air, I knew exactly that it was a cut out and the cut out was happening because of an overlean and not because I was at top speed/lowish voltage and hit a bump or pothole. Kind of crazy. Feels like I just went through a rite of passage...

 

Slightly off topic, but what does the number 1554 mean?

[Slashebeest]

Battery capacity. 

1554wh

[Patton250]

44 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Kuji was paid for his review. Of course he's not going to say the standard tyre is crap for braking stability. And that "nimbleless" contradicts the Z10 alike behaviour which it has when wanting to corner. 

I predict you don't.

I changed tyres, the difference is noticeable. I have the CST now. What I notice: it feels softer on the road, and I have a lot less wobbles when braking. Running at the same pressure as the original one. For cornering tbh I don't really notice anything, but I'm not very picky about that aspect, coming from a Z10.

 Sure he would. I’m sure Kuji gives his honest opinion no matter what. That’s not very nice thing to say my friend. :-) 

 

 I will bet you guys that change tires regret it. I now have the Nikola with the tire everybody wants. It is smoother from 0 to 18 mph than the 16X.  Not a whole bunch smoother but smoother.  After about 20 mph it’s not even close. The 16 X is much smoother and more stable.  Riding the 16 X at 28 miles per hour is very easy and pleasing. I can totally see why the OP felt like he wanted to accelerate even more when he was already at 25 mph.  It just doesn’t feel like you’re going that fast with the 16X. With the Nikola tire I got extremely nervous at 22 mph and barely made it to 25 mph before I backed off and back into the teens where I feel more stable and safe. That’s the way I feel about it for now.  I’ll be home tonight and I’ll go for a nice two hour ride on the Nikola if there is no rain.   I truly hope I can get it to be more stable in the 20s otherwise I’ll never get it into the 30s. 

 

 

[Juggler]

3 hours ago, Slashebeest said:

Battery capacity. 

1554wh

Ok thanks. Strage they put it on a big sticker without "wh" after it, I would have thought it should be on the pedal in tiny writing.

 

[eucinsea]

7 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Kuji was paid for his review. Of course he's not going to say the standard tyre is crap for braking stability. And that "nimbleless" contradicts the Z10 alike behaviour which it has when wanting to corner. 

I predict you don't.

I changed tyres, the difference is noticeable. I have the CST now. What I notice: it feels softer on the road, and I have a lot less wobbles when braking. Running at the same pressure as the original one. For cornering tbh I don't really notice anything, but I'm not very picky about that aspect, coming from a Z10.

I have the stock tire at 30 psi and love it. No wobbles when braking (but I also do not go over 22 mph as no need in the city), feels solid and love how it feels turning now that I have l ridden it 50+ miles or so. No idea why others are going through all the trouble and expense of changing out the tire.

[Reggie510]

9 hours ago, UniVehje said:

I think the wheel just couldn't keep up with you. Did the pedals dip before you fell?

I actually don't remember one way or the other. If I overlean again (hopefully not though), hopefully I'll have more awareness as whether the pedals are dipping or not.

[Reggie510]

8 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 I will bet you guys that change tires regret it. I now have the Nikola with the tire everybody wants. It is smoother from 0 to 18 mph than the 16X.  Not a whole bunch smoother but smoother.  After about 20 mph it’s not even close. The 16 X is much smoother and more stable.  Riding the 16 X at 28 miles per hour is very easy and pleasing. I can totally see why the OP felt like he wanted to accelerate even more when he was already at 25 mph.  It just doesn’t feel like you’re going that fast with the 16X. With the Nikola tire I got extremely nervous at 22 mph and barely made it to 25 mph before I backed off and back into the teens where I feel more stable and safe. That’s the way I feel about it for now.  I’ll be home tonight and I’ll go for a nice two hour ride on the Nikola if there is no rain.   I truly hope I can get it to be more stable in the 20s otherwise I’ll never get it into the 30s. 

 

 

Yes, when riding at 25 mph, it is very smooth and stable. So easy to get lulled into feeling that the wheel has more to give. On the other hand, I do wonder how I can prevent an overlean in the future. I looked through the KS app, and although there are alarms you can set, it doesn't seem that you can set the max speed of the wheel. Maybe I'm missing something?

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I think you need to adjust the tilt back there.