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stretching / training to improve range of riding


Cumulus Libre

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Tricky question, as I rely on both knees in both locked and bent positions with varying pressure.

The obvious suggestion is probably to try seated riding, which is a slightly different technique altogether. I know this helps @Citi Wheel when we've done long filmings, as has similar type of knee pains.

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9 minutes ago, Seba said:

Riding on longer distances requires strenght and endurance that you'll develop with practice and time. The most important thing is to regularly plan new rides with constantly increasing distance. High boots (at least to the ankle) with hard soles, as flat as possible, are the best. It's also important to use good, well-fitted insoles. Stretching will be beneficial to keep you fit, but it's of less importance for long-distance rides. I don't do any exercises before I ride, not even warm up. Anyway, during a ride I periodically do some short excersises to maintain adequate blood circulation in feet and alleviate feet pain. It's very similar to what @houseofjob advised.

And don't stop about every 3 to 5 km. I know that this helps to relieve some strain, but will also prevent your muscles to develop and you'll never be able to go really long-range. You need to overcome any crisis you'll experience. Try to extend distance between stops.

Er, I think it's a wee bit different if @Cumulus Libre has legitimate medical knee pain though. I can't imagine that hard sole boots are advise-able for such a condition.

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8 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Er, I think it's a wee bit different if @Cumulus Libre has legitimate medical knee pain though. I can't imagine that hard sole boots are advise-able for such a condition.

Shoes with a hard, flat sole and well-fitted (or even custom-fitted) insoles allow you to evenly and stably transfer foot pressure to pedal, on the largest possible surface. Soft soles tend to bend, which means that when the force is transferred to the front of the pedal, the heel goes up loosing contact with pedal. This reduces the contact surface of the shoe to the pedal, which has multiple effects. First, it increases the load on the foot, which causes pain and rapid fatigue. Secondly, this worsens control over the EUC, which may promote wobbling (especially in connection with feet fatigue).

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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Tricky question, as I rely on both knees in both locked and bent positions with varying pressure.

The obvious suggestion is probably to try seated riding, which is a slightly different technique altogether. I know this helps @Citi Wheel when we've done long filmings, as has similar type of knee pains.

What happened to citi? His YouTube channel has been AFK for a while now

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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

I know this helps @Citi Wheel when we've done long filmings, as has similar type of knee pains.

hmm I've been thinking about it, but I am afraid that I am unable to sit so low on something like an EUC , the knee has to be able to fold more then 90° and I am just around that..

 

51 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Er, I think it's a wee bit different if @Cumulus Libre has legitimate medical knee pain though. I can't imagine that hard sole boots are advise-able for such a condition.

hmm my experiences is to choose for soft booth, or stiff outer boot with ankle protection but damped as soles.. I understand the explanation of Seba below..

27 minutes ago, Seba said:

Shoes with a hard, flat sole and well-fitted (or even custom-fitted) insoles allow you to evenly and stably transfer foot pressure to pedal, on the largest possible surface. Soft soles tend to bend, which means that when the force is transferred to the front of the pedal, the heel goes up loosing contact with pedal. This reduces the contact surface of the shoe to the pedal, which has multiple effects. First, it increases the load on the foot, which causes pain and rapid fatigue. Secondly, this worsens control over the EUC, which may promote wobbling (especially in connection with feet fatigue).

However my experiences is that the softer the more I like it, that's why I am in love with the V10f because of it's comfortable ride, definitely compared to the KS18L which I preferred 10 months ago, for torque, damping of road.. etc. but when I went back after 3 months on the V10F, the soft pedals and less stiffer ride won my hearth & my feet and knees.. 

I use the following shoes/boots and I am quite happy about them  https://gearjunkie.com/ecco-exostrike-dyneema-leather-hiking-boot-review                                                                                                                                              lmEcco-EXOSTRIKE.thumb.jpg.b36a784b13c1452a992f676fb01d876f.jpg

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1 minute ago, Cumulus Libre said:

However my experiences is that the softer the more I like it, that's why I am in love with the V10f because of it's comfortable ride, definitely compared to the KS18L which I preferred 10 months ago, for torque, damping of road.. etc. but when I went back after 3 months on the V10F, the soft pedals and less stiffer ride won my hearth & my feet and knees.. 

This softness IMHO of the V10F is the tire + ride response/hardness mode + rubber pedal insets. The MSX setup would be similar if the hardness modes weren't tuned so damn hard, as that tire is very bouncy/cushion-y as well.

If you have the chance to try the Nikola+, that setup is comparable IMHO, even better to me, as that tire has less ricochet coming off of bumps than the V10F or MSX (set to the right PSI obviously).

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3 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

If you have the chance to try the Nikola+, that setup is comparable IMHO, even better to me, as that tire has less ricochet coming off of bumps than the V10F or MSX (set to the right PSI obviously)

I will give the Nikola+ a go if possible, ... 

But I was looking forward to the next Inmotion as well, since I heard a rumour that it will come with shock absorbers/suspension.. no real clue if that will a 18 inch etc.. 

And as you I like to ride my EUC tires at a low PSI setting, I blow them up till 30 and I tune it down on the valve till I have found that sweet spot. I should look for a small compact air pressure release system which gives you a PSI reading, no clue if it exists?

Low tyre pressure,  I love it for carving, and is more shock absorbent and lately i tend to brake while turning like on ski's.. no clue if this an efficient way of braking, never measured the difference it came a bit natural i think muscle memory from skiing, or maybe you are to blame, because of those dynamic riding videos that I saw of you ... I surely like your riding style ! it's fluid and has a constant flow to it.. some riders tend to have a vertical stand, we do learn it that way, stand straight....  that turns into a  rather stiff and hence a more mechanic style of riding.. 

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I find that in your situation taking frequent breaks (every 10 miles for. 15 minutes) should help the discomfort. I can go 20 miles standing without the need for breaks, but in your case with chronic knee trouble you are better off stretching during your breaks to keep the circulation going. 

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6 hours ago, Cumulus Libre said:

But I was looking forward to the next Inmotion as well, since I heard a rumour that it will come with shock absorbers/suspension.. no real clue if that will a 18 inch etc.. 

I would be super surprised if this was the case, as the consensus a few months back from IM fielding rider requests for a new model was that most wanted a real predecessor to the crowd-favorite V8, just with better specs.

6 hours ago, Cumulus Libre said:

And as you I like to ride my EUC tires at a low PSI setting, I blow them up till 30 and I tune it down on the valve till I have found that sweet spot.

I actually prefer the highest PSI for my riding weight where I can still feel some spring-back in the tire cushion.

6 hours ago, Cumulus Libre said:

Low tyre pressure,  I love it for carving, and is more shock absorbent and lately i tend to brake while turning like on ski's.. no clue if this an efficient way of braking, never measured the difference it came a bit natural i think muscle memory from skiing, or maybe you are to blame, because of those dynamic riding videos that I saw of you ... I surely like your riding style ! it's fluid and has a constant flow to it.. some riders tend to have a vertical stand, we do learn it that way, stand straight....  that turns into a  rather stiff and hence a more mechanic style of riding.. 

Thanks!

And yes, I do believe the most efficient way to ride EUC is just as we do skiing, especially when braking, where the side "carve" while your "downhill-facing" body momentum is still traveling forward, will allow the resistance of the now perpendicular-direction tire to absorb some speed.

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I stretch daily using https://stretching.com/30th-anniversary-stretching-book

and after rides I do a stretch my therapist showed me which stretches out my inner thighs and legs. This was shown to me after my last appointment where I complained about lower back pain and she said it was from my EUC riding.

For this I lay on my back and use a rope to put around my foot. Push my leg I am stretching out all way and start from the outside, then middle then inside pushing on my foot to feel the stretch. Swap feet, then do it all again. First few times I could barely do the inside move on either side but it has helped me tremendously.

She also tells me I should get back into Yoga as it would help a ton.

Edited by prasket
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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

I would be super surprised if this was the case, as the consensus a few months back from IM fielding rider requests for a new model was that most wanted a real predecessor to the crowd-favorite V8, just with better specs.

@houseofjob: Inmotion has confirmed all of: a refresh of the V8 with a bigger motor/higher top speed (although the same tiny battery unfortunately), a refresh of the V10 (no details at this point that I've seen except for the updated pedals which are a hybrid of the prior design but with traditional griptape on top), and a new "V12" with an 18" wheel and shocks/suspension. No release timeframe, but they've confirmed all three directly (with zero ambiguity) through twitter/forum posts on several occasions spread out over the past few months.

Edited by AtlasP
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1 minute ago, AtlasP said:

@houseofjob: Inmotion has confirmed all of: a refresh of the V8 with a bigger motor/higher top speed (although the same tiny battery unfortunately), a refresh of the V10 (no details at this point that I've seen), and a new "V12" with an 18" wheel and shocks/suspension. No release timeframe, but they've mentioned all three through twitter/forum posts on several occasions spread out over the past few months.

Wow, where was this definitive confirmation on shocks/suspension? Can you link it? Thanks.

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3 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

 

Thanks, but this is hardly confirmation, as stuff gets scrapped after the prototype phase often. Was there any later posts on this by IM?

(plus FWIW, we've been promised "suspension" before, like how the RockWheel GT16 supposedly had suspension, but all this equated to was a silicone insert between pedal & pedal arm, combined with rubber insets on the pedals..... details often get lost in translation between the Chinese manufacturers and English speaking customers).

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Sorry, you're right that's technically not confirmed for release, but I was still surprised to see explicit confirmation of existence in prototype form (versus merely hypothesizing)--you'd think they have to be pretty confident to reveal something like that publicly (compared to how tight-lipped Inmotion normally is).

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Just now, AtlasP said:

Sorry, you're right that's technically not confirmed for release, but I was still surprised to see explicit confirmation of existence in prototype form (versus merely hypothesizing)--you'd think they have to be pretty confident to reveal something like that publicly (compared to how tight-lipped Inmotion normally is).

No worries, just was surprised as I've seen no typical IM product launch for such wheels past their last disappointing Mini/Mini Pro clone announcement.

We see this stuff all the time though with protos, mainly from Gotway.... except that it's not typically them posting, but a distributor posting to their own social media account.

 

But another reason why I'm skeptical about this IM post being regarded as definitive & indelible release details: remember, the V10F supposedly had brand new "active cooling" (which kind of sounded like a Tesla-style battery conditioner).... but this turned out to be the same wheel-facing heatsink design Gotway and others were using well before IM.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Fantastic and very exhaustive info on the topic of stretching by @travsformation, right here:

Waawww , thx a ton of information ! very useful, Now it's up to me to put it into practice !!

 

7 hours ago, houseofjob said:
7 hours ago, AtlasP said:

 

Thanks, but this is hardly confirmation, as stuff gets scrapped after the prototype phase often. Was there any later posts on this by IM?

(plus FWIW, we've been promised "suspension" before, like how the RockWheel GT16 supposedly had suspension, but all this equated to was a silicone insert between pedal & pedal arm, combined with rubber insets on the pedals..... details often get lost in translation between the Chinese manufacturers and English speaking customers).

ok, good to know that their are new things coming our way.. in the meanwhile I'll try to play around with new paddings on the side of my KS18L , I'll have a look if they can help me out too? I'll keep you posted... 

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There is zero scientific evidence that stretching before an activity reduces injuries. For some activities stretching is even bad for performance. Warming up your muscles is a good idea, yes.

One source with explanations:

https://www.painscience.com/articles/stretching.php#sec_science

 

I do several trainings a week (with a personal trainer) and I never stretch before nor after my exercises. Sore muscles = damaged tissue because of using them in a way they are not used. It's that healing process that gives you better muscles that will be used to do certain things (simplisticly speaking). You can't "solve" this by post workout stretching. It's not the lactic acid buildup that makes you feel sore for days in a row. For me stretching post workout has zero influence on my muscle soreness (I didn't do any research around post workout stretching. I just know it doesn't do it for me). Even for flexibility it's a bit of a weird thing. I was always a pretty stiff dude. When bending my back with stretched legs my fingers stopped at approx 10cm from the floor. After a couple of years of training, and not working specifically on flexibility but only on strength and endurance I can now touch the floor when bending, without much effort.

 

If you have sore muscles it means those muscles are not used to doing that kind of activity. The solution is training those muscles. If you are sore in joints/... then there might be a posture problem, that may or may not be corrected by training certain muscles groups. If this last case persists I would go see a specialist. Maybe you need insoles, or posture correction, or ....

Also don't forget that we are built to move, not to be static for hours. It's quite possible that a long ride on a paved smooth road will give you more pain than a physical off road ride where you constantly have to move your body.

 

IMO there is only one solution and that has been mentioned here: training. Go a bit further every time, and don't push it too far in one go.

 

18 hours ago, Cumulus Libre said:

I should look for a small compact air pressure release system which gives you a PSI reading, no clue if it exists?

Take one of these with you:

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B015FMBAA6/ref=sspa_dk_detail_7

 

You can lower pressure while you measure.

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42 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Even for flexibility it's a bit of a weird thing. I was always a pretty stiff dude. When bending my back with stretched legs my fingers stopped at approx 10cm from the floor. After a couple of years of training, and not working specifically on flexibility but only on strength and endurance I can now touch the floor when bending, without much effort.

I recognise what you are saying, I've always been very sportive on and off competitions, but wasn't flexible at all, until I received a thai massage in Ubud Bali, after that half hour massage I was able to stretch my towards the floor a good 12cm more then normal,... never again I got a such good massage to compare..

 

45 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

IMO there is only one solution and that has been mentioned here: training. Go a bit further every time, and don't push it too far in one go.

makes sense !

49 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Take one of these with you:

https://www.amazon.de/dp/B015FMBAA6/ref=sspa_dk_detail_7

 

You can lower pressure while you measure.

nice tip ! 

 

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On 8/27/2019 at 4:35 AM, Cumulus Libre said:

Waawww , thx a ton of information ! very useful, Now it's up to me to put it into practice !!

 

ok, good to know that their are new things coming our way.. in the meanwhile I'll try to play around with new paddings on the side of my KS18L , I'll have a look if they can help me out too? I'll keep you posted... 

I wonder if this would work..

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/26/2019 at 4:20 PM, Cumulus Libre said:

Hello, 

I was wondering if people stretch before or after rides? to protect hem from injuries or increase their potential for longer rides..

But nevertheless and all jokes aside , it's a serious question and I am seriously interested in extending my riding mileage.

I have several questions :

  1. do people stretch before or after? if yes which exercises?  I often foam roll when I feel that my muscles are really tired after a ride and use a massage ball for foot fatigue afterwords...
  2. train exercises to strengthen the muscles we need (and therefore we need to know which ones we use the most?)
  3. @houseofjob had a good tip on relaxing leggmuscles through dancing on our pedals ;) raising ankle and toes.. , maybe other suggestions?
  4. I imagine slowly increasing range of riding over several weeks could help, for sportsmen the resting is as important as the exercise..? any regards on that? 
  5. excercices on the days we don't ride?
  6. ... things I forget?

anything that helps me extending my riding would help,

 

Hi,

I personally think stretching is a part of riding that is mostly ignored, and not a bad idea at all because of the type of exercise EUCing involves: a mostly static stance, with lots of different muscles, ligaments, tendons, etc., contracted for extended periods of time...this can cause fatigue and stiffness, making injuries much more likely (when bailing, harsh movements of trying to outrun the wheel from a standstill position, the impact received by the first leg to hit the ground running, etc). In a same scenario, getting injured or not, or the severity of the injury, could be very different with a "healthy calf muscle", where strength is balanced out with flexibility, or with an overly stiff one, where a sprain, tendinitis, etc. will be much more likely.

Not to mention that EUC-riding may strengthen a deal of muscles by the mere act of ridiing, but doesn't particularly promote a good healthy balance--stretching is essential to maintain flexibility and overall muscle/tendon/ligament health (without it, muscle cramps can become an issue too. I know I got those on the plant of my foot when I first started riding, and stretching helped a lot)

I do a gentle warm-up and some light stretching before long rides, and then some more intense stretching afterwards. I rarely do anything for shorter rides (and never for trips to the supermarket :efee612b4b:), but I do try to remember to stretch the muscles involved in EUC-riding at least a couple of times of week to keep them from getting too stiff. And as for strengthening the muscles involved in riding...riding is probably enough to do so, but when not riding, there are also some exercises in my post on the subject the @meepmeepmayer linked to :)

Hope it's useful to you! (You could be extra gentle on the leg you're taking it easy on, and focus on the leg that's taking most of the strain of riding)

And hope your knee recovers soon! :)

 

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