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erk1024

Monster V3 vs Kingsong 18XL

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1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Do you have the seat with it ?

I do have a seat. I haven't tried it yet.  :)

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Well considering you have almost 100 lbs on @houseofjob you probably can get more leverage on the wheel. With that said, are you tripping the 5-beep buzzer alarm or the darknessbot alarm? There’s a huge difference between the two. 

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@erk1024 cool report! You should realize that everything you heard prior about the Monster was based on the previous versions, as V1 & V2 had a much less slicker & refined shell as the V3, as well as the pedals have alternated production batch to production batch, and most reports are based on the smaller MSX-style or old Tesla-style pedals, which are significantly shorter than the new V3 pedals (also, size 14 is rather large compared to the average US men's size foot, so you are naturally more advantaged at your size & weight to leverage any EUC, one-size-does-not-fit-all with tech that is based on balance distribution and leveraging force input).

2 hours ago, erk1024 said:
This Monster is the 1845wh version, so it's listed as 60 pounds.

I keep hearing this, but I remember my old V1 84V 2400Wh 1500W nom, which has 36 more cells than your V3 (about 4lbs of additional battery weight), weighing 72 lbs on my bathroom scale.

Is this V3 Actually 60 lbs? If so, really wondering how they shaved off that extra weight :confused1:

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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

I keep hearing this, but I remember my old V1 84V 2400Wh 1500W nom, which has 36 more cells than your V3 (about 4lbs of additional battery weight), weighing 72 lbs on my bathroom scale.

Is this V3 Actually 60 lbs? If so, really wondering how they shaved off that extra weight :confused1:

The original 100V model weighs less than 60lbs, I have weighed 2 of mine, It feels heavier though. 

Screenshot_20190824_173204.jpg

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2 minutes ago, ED209 said:

The original 100V model weighs less than 60lbs, I have weighed 2 of mine, It feels heavier though. 

Oh wow, thanks! Hopefully this is a trend, as I think it was mentioned in the recent news that Gotway was working on more efficient build components(?)

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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Is this V3 Actually 60 lbs? If so, really wondering how they shaved off that extra weight :confused1:

They are using tinier MOSFETs now, because they weigh less...   :facepalm:

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

With that said, are you tripping the 5-beep buzzer alarm or the darknessbot alarm?

I set a 90 amp alarm in Darkness Bot. Not sure how accurate it is, or at least how good of an indication it is. I sometimes get that alarm when I've barely stepped on the wheel and just started to accelerate without much of a lean angle. I wonder if anybody had any luck with those Android watches. I'd like to give Wheel Log a try.

I opened up the shell to unplug lift switch, and to fix the magnet. The magnet was stuck in there with some hot glue, and it was tilted. So whoever glued it didn't press it down, and the glue was at least a couple mm thick. The magnet almost fell off in my hand. I epoxied it back in there by putting glue on the sides and just a drop on the face of the magnet. You have to make sure you get the right orientation, otherwise it will repel the magnet in the pedal. Now it works better than pedal on the other side.

As for the less-than-reliable lift switch, I pulled out a small two pin connector and taped it to another wire so it wouldn't float around in there. It's the "motor stop" connector on this diagram. Now the wheel always auto-balances when I turn it on. (See my review above)

For the slow leak, I put soapy water on the valve and didn't see any bubbles. I put 8oz of slime in the tire and then took it for an hour ride. Maybe I'll get lucky and that will fix the leak. Otherwise, I'm going to be taking apart the wheel again soon!

 

Gotway2.jpg

Edited by erk1024
added text

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12 hours ago, erk1024 said:

I set a 90 amp alarm in Darkness Bot. Not sure how accurate it is, or at least how good of an indication it is. I sometimes get that alarm when I've barely stepped on the wheel and just started to accelerate without much of a lean angle. I wonder if anybody had any luck with those Android watches. I'd like to give Wheel Log a try.

I opened up the shell to unplug lift switch, and to fix the magnet. The magnet was stuck in there with some hot glue, and it was tilted. So whoever glued it didn't press it down, and the glue was at least a couple mm thick. The magnet almost fell off in my hand. I epoxied it back in there by putting glue on the sides and just a drop on the face of the magnet. You have to make sure you get the right orientation, otherwise it will repel the magnet in the pedal. Now it works better than pedal on the other side.

As for the less-than-reliable lift switch, I pulled out a small two pin connector and taped it to another wire so it wouldn't float around in there. It's the "motor stop" connector on this diagram. Now the wheel always auto-balances when I turn it on. (See my review above)

For the slow leak, I put soapy water on the valve and didn't see any bubbles. I put 8oz of slime in the tire and then took it for an hour ride. Maybe I'll get lucky and that will fix the leak. Otherwise, I'm going to be taking apart the wheel again soon!

 

Gotway2.jpg

Darknessbot current alarm is not an indication of what your actual amps are, simply based on estimated current at the motor phase lines. 

The only beep I would respect are the low battery warning and the 5 beep alarm at 80% torque which cannot be disabled.

With that said, the 5 beep alarm can be transmitted to your wrist via pebble watch instead of the buzzer with Wheellog; it’s very easy to miss the 5 beeps through the wheel at very high speeds. 

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4 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

Darknessbot current alarm is not an indication of what your actual amps are

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe Wheellog would be more accurate? It could be that the high level of amps DB is reporting is transient or noisy or just not accurate. I mean some of the other numbers in DB don't look right either. Like it says the voltage is 60.51 ... uh... no.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe Wheellog would be more accurate? It could be that the high level of amps DB is reporting is transient or noisy or just not accurate. I mean some of the other numbers in DB don't look right either. Like it says the voltage is 60.51 ... uh... no.

I’d set a reasonably safe speed alarm in DB (for your weight probably 37) and use that. If you overtorque the motor at lower speeds, you’ll hear the 5 beeps no problem. It only becomes problematic around 35+ MPH due to wind. 

Given how much effort is needed on the Monster, I don’t think you’ll have much to worry about on overcurrent type situations. 

Edited by Ben Kim

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1 minute ago, Ben Kim said:

If you overtorque the motor at lower speeds, you’ll hear the 5 beeps no problem.

Okay that's good to know! Thanks!

I'm trying to find a good bluetooth solution I can put in my helmet (not earbuds as I still want to be able to hear traffic) so I can hear alarms. I'm looking at some of the motorcycle bluetooth intercom systems. The also hook up to the phone. Should be easy to bolt one onto my helmet.

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Stuff I learned changing the Monster V3 tire

My review of the Monster V3 was stalled by a flat tire and a category 5 hurricane evacuation. I did eventually fix the flat, and I thought I'd pass on some things I learned doing it. I started with Duf's Monster tire change as a reference point. Thanks @Duf for the great video!

It turns out that the slow leak was indeed there from the factory. The puncture was on the rim side of the tube, right in the center. Probably just a bad tube from the beginning. Green slime was bubbling out of it when I took it off.

1. You only need to take off the left half of the shell

Duf mentioned this, but I want to pass it on. As long as you take out the five alan bolts from the top-right of the shell, then you can do the rest of the repair just dealing with the left side. Then take off the pedals and the side panel. Then label and disconnect the battery wires. Unscrew remaining alan bolts holding the shells together, and the shell to the pedal hangar. Then take the left shell off, carefully letting the wires pull through. In this photo you can see the five screw holes, including one in the handle.

fiveAlanScrews.thumb.jpg.417fa25db8695f1690fb8d1f05f97678.jpg

 

2. Get a standard set of tire irons from the motorcycle shop

I tried the ones that Duf used, and I wasn't a fan. The problem is that the hook on the end of the spoon is too big, so when you lever the tire over the rim, the hook digs in and wants to pinch the tube. The tire irons you'll get at a motorcycle shop (or online) have a much smaller hook that doesn't "reach into" the rim and try to pinch the tube. These tire irons are also beefier and don't flex.

BetterTireIrons.thumb.jpg.d9f20e0786bd24dd86b4aef507430a33.jpg   TireIronHook.thumb.jpg.a5329cfa1b2f8f3013ffcfbbbe499413.jpg

 

3. Don't pre-inflate the tube

When I change a bicycle tire, I put a little air in the tube to give it some structure and get it into the tire. The problem I had doing this with the Monster tube was that the tube won't fully deflate when you want it to. From then on, the tube is resisting your efforts and trying to get pinched in every way possible. In this case, I think it's better to leave the tube uninflated so it will lay flat inside the tire when you're getting the tire back on the rim.

4. Don't put irons in next to the valve

Usually it's a good idea to put the tire back on the rim starting at the valve. I still think it's a good idea, but one thing about the 2.75" x 17" tube is that the tube is reinforced, and there is a flat spot where the valve is. That rubber will try to get pinched by the tire irons. So put two tire irons on either side of the valve about 3 inches away.

5. Leave a nut to hold the silver washer on

It's a wrestling match to get the valve to go through the rim. And while you're trying to get that to happen, the little silver washer on the valve wants to come off and get lost in the rim. In another video I watched, they recommended leaving one nut on the valve to prevent that washer from falling off. The other thing this does is makes it so when you put the nut on the valve from the other side you are not putting stress on the rubber itself. 

6. Soapy water on the tire and rim

This is a beefy tire, and it's tough to deal with. To help the process, go ahead and mix some dish soap with water, and put some of that slippery mixture around the bead of the tire AND the rim. Once I'd done all that, and the tube was laying flat inside the tire, getting the tire back on the rim with no pinches was easy and quick with the right tire irons.

7. Move the battery down (optional)

Sorry I don't have a photo of this. There is precious little space to put the wires and their connectors back together with the (right side) battery jammed up against the top of the shell. But on the bottom of the battery, there is a 3" spacer that holds it in place. I just moved down the battery and put the spacer on top instead. This left lots of room to re-connect the wires. 

It's a lot of work taking all the screws off to get the side cover and shell open, but nothing about the procedure is complicated. With the right tools, I think the whole thing could be done in less than an hour.

Edited by erk1024
clarification

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44 minutes ago, learnerofskills said:

You ordered this from ewheels? I took a look at their website and I didn't see the monster V3. Only the monster V2

Yes. Contact them directly, the website is not always up to date. 

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so, i finally recovered this fire wheel (it was a LOT more than just a control board, needed one new connector, power switch had to be isolated, new motor connectors, new alarm buzzer, )

What psi do you use? I used 32 psi and it was way too harsh. Probably more harsh than my Nikola at 35 psi. 

It takes a lot of effort to torque this wheel (I found myself sitting on it more than i expected) but once it’s at speed it moves nicely. Used both medium and soft mode, found myself liking medium more as soft got springy over potholes. 

I got 48 miles on the 2460Wh battery with 33% battery left, top speed 36.4 MPH, did not trip the 80% alarm (I think). Probably good for 60-65 miles to the 15% mark. Considering I got 42 miles on my Nikola 100V 1845Wh with 25% left, it seems right. 

I weigh 177 naked, 185 with clothes/gear. 

Edited by Ben Kim

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On 8/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, Ben Kim said:

the 5 beep alarm at 80% torque which cannot be disabled.

The GW 5 beep alarm is not an 80% torque, but more like an 80% speed alarm. It plays based on a model specific pre-programmed speed threshold curve that decreases as the battery goes down. The actual curves were published by GW themselves at the forum earlier this year.

 

On 8/25/2019 at 9:29 PM, erk1024 said:

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe Wheellog would be more accurate? It could be that the high level of amps DB is reporting is transient or noisy or just not accurate.

I haven’t seen a notable difference between DB and WheelLog. They don’t do much else than show the numbers the wheel sends them. GW amp and hence power readings are always all over the place, and they don’t even try to show us the values we expect to see, like battery amperage, total motor power consumption etc.

 

On 8/25/2019 at 9:29 PM, erk1024 said:

Like it says the voltage is 60.51 ... uh... no.

GW doesn’t report the actual voltages to the app, so one has to choose the correct voltage range in DB settings.

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1 hour ago, erk1024 said:

Part 2 - Torque, Gripes and Conclusion

Apologize that it's taken so long to get out the second part of this review. A leaking tire, a hurricane, and eleven days of fighting off a virus got in the way.

Torque

I finally got a chance to take the Monster on ramps and hilly paths. On the Florida coast we have drawbridges across the intercoastal waters. I've also taken it on a steep, technical footpath with tight, off-camber turns. The Monster handled all of it without a problem. The 18XL has more zippiness and torque in these situations. Another torque related issue is braking. I think you DO need to plan to brake a little sooner on the Monster. It's not going to keep up with a Nikola or 16X in hill climbing, but it's still surprisingly capable. 

A few minor gripes

  • The lack of a trolley handle is annoying. If you have to roll it by hand for any reason, you're hunched over while you push it around.
  • I didn't think it was possible, but the valve is even harder to get to than the 18XL. The valve stem points right at the wheel hub, but there's not enough room for a bike pump, or many of the standard inflator valves. Not even a screw on type hose will work in most cases. The only way I can get my inflator on it, is to first screw on a 145 degree adapter. I lose a lot of air getting it on and off. If you have a compressor, then there IS an attachment that makes this much easier.
  • The Monster is back-heavy, so as soon as you shut it off, the shell wants to spin backwards on the axle and hit the ground.

Something I noticed is that if you turn on the wheel and it's not level, it won't slowly correct like on the 18XL. Instead, you have to rotate the shell manually. As soon as it's level, it will lock on to that orientation, and you're good to go.

Conclusion

The Monster 100V V3 is a blast to ride, and is my current favorite. What makes it so compelling is the smooth speed. Other wheels may have enough power, but the rough ride (and maybe some wobbles) prevent you from going top speeds on anything but perfect pavement. The big tire of the Monster evens out the bumps and provides stability so you can go fast basically _all the time_. If you look at the speed graph, you can see I'm going 25 - 30mph the entire ride, and this is on bumpy, sometimes twisty bike paths with pedestrians and street crossings. Extremely fun!

The Monster is silent, and it doesn't seem to be laboring at all when it's going fast. I've kept the tiltback at the max setting of 48kph. Unlike the 18XL, the Monster's tiltback is gradual, so you can ride the tiltback somewhat. That speed seems like a good compromise between fun and safety. Other people ride it much faster, and that's good, it means cruising at that speed I'm not pushing the limits. The Monster is also a good choice for heavier riders because you can run the tire at a lower pressure for greater comfort. With my 265 pound (120 kg) self, a good pressure is 38 psi.

If your looking for fast stops and starts and lots of nimble maneuvering, then one of the smaller, zippier wheels is a better choice. But a smaller wheel has it's downsides as well (less roadworthy, less comfortable, more wobbles, etc.) For fast rides, the stability and ride quality of the Monster is incredible.

Huge thanks to @Marty Backe for talking me into trying the Monster! 

image.png.13f281b471bcf6884d1bb9b29faa4b3f.png

 

the Monster tire max pressure is 32 psi though? 

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1 hour ago, erk1024 said:

Part 2 - Torque, Gripes and Conclusion

Apologize that it's taken so long to get out the second part of this review. A leaking tire, a hurricane, and eleven days of fighting off a virus got in the way.

Torque

I finally got a chance to take the Monster on steep ramps. On the Florida coast we have drawbridges across the intercoastal waters. I've also taken it on a steep, technical footpath with tight, off-camber turns. The Monster handled all of it without a problem. The 18XL also has more zippiness and torque. Another torque related issue is braking. I think you DO need to plan to brake a little sooner on the Monster. It's not going to keep up with a Nikola or 16X in hill climbing, but it's still surprisingly capable. 

A few minor gripes

  • The lack of a trolley handle is annoying. If you have to roll it by hand for any reason, you're hunched over while you push it around.
  • I didn't think it was possible, but the valve is even harder to get to than the 18XL. The valve stem points right at the wheel hub, but there's not enough room for a bike pump, or many of the standard inflator valves. Not even a screw on type hose will work in most cases. The only way I can get my inflator on it, is to first screw on a 145 degree adapter. I lose a lot of air getting it on and off. If you have a compressor, then there IS an attachment that makes this much easier.
  • The Monster is back-heavy, so as soon as you shut it off, the shell wants to spin backwards on the axle and hit the ground.

Something I noticed is that if you turn on the wheel and it's not level, it won't slowly correct like on the 18XL. Instead, you have to rotate the shell manually. As soon as it's level, it will lock on to that orientation, and you're good to go.

Conclusion

The Monster 100V V3 is a blast to ride, and is my current favorite. What makes it so compelling is the smooth speed. Other wheels may have enough power, but the rough ride (and maybe some wobbles) prevent you from going top speeds on anything but perfect pavement. The big tire of the Monster evens out the bumps and provides stability so you can go fast basically _all the time_. If you look at the speed graph, you can see I'm going 25 - 30mph the entire ride, and this is on bumpy, sometimes twisty bike paths with pedestrians and street crossings. Extremely fun!

The Monster is silent, and it doesn't seem to be laboring at all when it's going fast. I've kept the tiltback at the max setting of 48kph. Unlike the 18XL, the Monster's tiltback is gradual, so you can ride the tiltback somewhat. That speed seems like a good compromise between fun and safety. Other people ride it much faster, and that's good, it means cruising at that speed I'm not pushing the limits. The Monster is also a good choice for heavier riders because you can run the tire at a lower pressure for greater comfort. With my 265 pound (120 kg) self, a good pressure is 38 psi.

If your looking for fast stops and starts and lots of nimble maneuvering, then one of the smaller, zippier wheels is a better choice. But a smaller wheel has it's downsides as well (less roadworthy, less comfortable, more wobbles, etc.) For fast rides, the stability and ride quality of the Monster is incredible.

Huge thanks to @Marty Backe for talking me into trying the Monster! 

 

Glad you're loving the Monster :thumbup:

I fill all my tires with a shop compressor with a nice right angle adapter. At least with my 2-1/2 year old Monster, I think I've only had to add air 3 or 4 times. The tire has been amazing. Hopefully you have similar luck.

Regarding the trolley. Once I installed this seat on my Monster, it essentially acts like a trolley handle and I feel very comfortable bringing it into stores now.

IMG_0551-Edit

 

IMG_0549

 

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13 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

the Monster tire max pressure is 32 psi though? 

The "max pressure" markings on EUC tires are not super accurate, and the numbers they put on there can vary wildly.

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14 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I fill all my tires with a shop compressor with a nice right angle adapter.

This type adapter works great on the Monster, and I have one of those but haven't bought a compressor to use it with. I can't put it on my portable inflator. But yes, it's easy with one of these... and it has a gauge. 

Adapter.JPG.7cf5df7e5f01a2c92847f57657d175e5.JPG

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SGJCQ1Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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14 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

This type adapter works great on the Monster, and I have one of those but haven't bought a compressor to use it with. I can't put it on my portable inflator. But yes, it's easy with one of these... and it has a gauge. 

Adapter.JPG.7cf5df7e5f01a2c92847f57657d175e5.JPG

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SGJCQ1Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've been using this one from Harbor Freight and I love it. I know HF sells a lot of junk, but it's not all junk. https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-head-air-chuck-inflator-with-dial-gauge-63544.html

63544_I.jpg

Edited by Marty Backe

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31 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I've been using this one from Harbor Freight and I love it. I know HF sells a lot of junk, but it's not all junk. https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-head-air-chuck-inflator-with-dial-gauge-63544.html

Thanks! I'll pick up a small compressor and give it a try.  :)

I have a seat, and that makes trolley'ing a bit better. But standing is part of the appeal, so I don't see myself using the seat. Maybe I should construct a "handle extension".

Edited by erk1024

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