Nikola 100V Plus review/wheelog/journal 🦓

[Darrell Wesh]

 

1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

no one can hear the beeps its not an excuse, when you weigh 200 lbs and your battery is low you dont go near max speed thats just asking for it lol

edit: anyone going high speeds.. well, relatively (over 40 kph) should be wearing some king of earplugs.. earbuds with low volume music work as well.. its just like when youre at a loud concert the earplugs filter out the shrieking and allow you to actually hear the music, or in the case of an euc, hear the beeps.. im usually always wearing earbuds and i can hear beeps, but when i take them out all i hear is deafening wind noise lol

I hear the beeps loud and clear on my 100v Nikola since I don’t wear helmets😄

Edited September 8, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[chrisjunlee]

3 hours ago, Gustesta said:

39 mph at 34% battery and he's 200 pounds. 

Couldn't hear the beeps 

Can you hear connected thru Bluetooth headphones? Or just music? 

Damn. Sucks that he died. RIP brave soul 

Edited September 8, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Rywokast]

1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

 

I hear the beeps loud and clear on my 100v Nikola since I don’t wear helmets😄

really? i dont either and its usually hard for me to even hear beeps on my 16S with a max speed of 35 kph lol.. but its usually very windy here so that for sure doesnt help

[KAY GEE]

3 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Damn. Sucks that he died. RIP brave soul 

Hi, please are you sure that he lost his life? 🤔 

[Gustesta]

2 minutes ago, KAY GEE said:

Hi, please are you sure that he lost his life? 🤔 

He didn’t.

[KAY GEE]

1 hour ago, Gustesta said:

He didn’t.

Thanks for that, pretty relieved he's okay and alive

[Tadas]

Looking at this wheellog log, he discharged the battery fully (cell 3.26 V) at which point he either overpowered the wheel or the wheel turned off.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Tadas

[fred8569]

So what does overpower mean ? I mean, the current was not that high, so as the current power when the wheel cut off. But I only saw in his log that battery dropped to 0-% when it happened. Except this, power didn't seem that high.

 

Or, I don't know, "max and non peak power" decreases when the % battery and in this case, having an alarm about the amp that doesn't depend on the % of remaining battery has to be set to a conservative value so it cover a wide part of the battery. No ? 

 

Where's the truth ?

Edited September 9, 2019 by fred8569

[meepmeepmayer]

The voltage is what counts here.

A given electric motor has a fixed, voltage-dependent max speed. That's the speed where the rotation (rotating magnets = electric generator) induces a voltage so high that it matches the battery-supplied voltage. No voltage difference = no more power can flow, no matter how high the current (the current isn't the problem here as the cells still can supply plenty). The motor won't go faster and has zero extra torque at this speed, which means it can no longer balance the rider.

So if you are at low battery, that just means a low supplied voltage, which decreases the max speed. If you accelerate sharply or hit a bump, the voltage drop from that extra demand on the battery also decreases the voltage (hence the name "voltage drop", the more power you demand from a battery, the more the voltage drops compared to the same battery that just sits unused, also the voltage drop is higher at low battery).

So if you go too fast or hit a bump/accelerate near the max speed, you inevitably overpower the wheel and fall (overlean).

[On slower wheels with small batteries, it is possible to exceed the current capacity of the battery. But for our big-battery fast wheels, it's the voltage that's the limitation.]

[Chriull]

Great summary!

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

No voltage difference = no more power can flow, no matter how high the current (the current isn't the problem here as the cells still can supply plenty).

Without voltage difference _no_ current can flow. Current always needs a voltage difference.

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

On slower wheels with small batteries, it is possible to exceed the current capacity of the battery. 

Older, slower wheels like the 9bot 1 E+ also had an overcurrent cutoff in the BMS!

[fred8569]

4 hours ago, Chriull said:

 

Thank you.

 

So, there's 2 ways to reach the overpower phenomenon : 1) When you ask for too much current in a very short time

2) When there no more available voltage difference, independently of the current. The higher the speed, the lower the voltage difference. 

 

Hence the two alarms available on wheelog for instance.

 

So what about the newer 21700 batteries. I read something about no more max speed but deeper use possible of the battery. Does this mean we can expect something like :

18650 batteries :

100% : 5 beeps @62 km/h

30% : 5 beeps @55 km/h

 

21700 batteries :

100% : 5 beeps @62 km/h

30% : 5 beeps @57 km/h

 

(These are more or less random numbers used for the example)

 

I'm still wondering is it worth waiting for newer models 🥺, I hope they'll remove this loud beep beep beep beeep when the wheel is started, in that only case, it would have worth waiting ☺️

[Chriull]

12 minutes ago, fred8569 said:

Thank you.

 

So, there's 2 ways to reach the overpower phenomenon : 1) When you ask for too much current in a very short time

That's technically not an overpower phenomenon but an overcurrent phenomenon. The system can deliver the power, just the cooling of the system is not good enough/the components strong enough so some fuse/mosfet/wire can blow.

The other way to understand this point would be "asking for more current than possible", which leads to your point two...

12 minutes ago, fred8569 said:

2) When there no more available voltage difference, independently of the current. The higher the speed, the lower the voltage difference. 

That's the "normal" max torqe over speed limit of BLDC motors, as used in EUCs. That's not really an overpower phenomenom - at high voltages one can reach this limit easily with very low power needed.

12 minutes ago, fred8569 said:

So what about the newer 21700 batteries. I read something about no more max speed but deeper use possible of the battery. Does this mean we can expect something like :

In the datasheet of the SDI INR21700-40T the same 2.5V minimal discharge voltage is specified as with most 18650 cells.

By their higher capacity and higher nominal current EUCs should use them downto 3V (like some/many KS wheels already do with 18650er cells) instead of the 3.3V (like most GW do?)

[meepmeepmayer]

25 minutes ago, fred8569 said:

So, there's 2 ways to reach the overpower phenomenon

power = voltage * current

or in this case

extra available power = voltage difference (between motor and battery) * current

So there's two ways to fail, voltage and current. With the big batteries, current can be so crazy high, it's hard to imagine overleaning a wheel due to lack of current. So voltage is the most likely culprit, especially at speed.

But the two are connected, you need more current, the voltage drops, so for the same power you need more current etc. - not sure if it can always be separated cleanly. But for those crashes near or above the beep speeds, it's going to be voltage that wasn't enough.

25 minutes ago, fred8569 said:

So what about the newer 21700 batteries. I read something about no more max speed but deeper use possible of the battery. Does this mean we can expect something like :

...

That's very much possible.

The problem is not so much the top speed depending on voltage, the no-load speed when lifting the wheel is pretty high (probably like 90-100kph for the Nikola [guess]). That's still much higher than the max riding speed when the beeps appear. The problem seems to be the voltage drop (due to the power requirement for overcoming the enormous wind resistance) which reduces the riding speed compared to the lift speed. [Not 100% sure, I'm certainly no expert]

As the 21700s have much higher possible currents, they have less voltage drop during normal riding, so they can be stressed more at low battery without losing too much voltage.

So exactly as you describe (very nice, I wouldn't have guessed that): no change in full battery max speed because for a given motor and voltage, the cells don't make a difference. But at lower battery, higher speeds may be safer due to greatly reduced voltage drop compared to 18650s.

That's purely speculation/wishful thinking for now Who knows how it will look in reality.

25 minutes ago, fred8569 said:

I'm still wondering is it worth waiting for newer models 🥺

Me too. Buy MSX/Nikola soon, or wait?

Edited September 9, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[chrisjunlee]

== Day 19 - Mon 9/9/2019 ==

Had my first wet commute 💦. We're talking within 5 minutes soaked to my boxer briefs. At 30mph, the rain feels like icicles on your lips.

Even with the rain and wind, managed to break a lot of strava records:

🦆

The EUC.world log for this ride:

[reminder: post video of 520 run]

And I've hit over 700 miles on the Nikola 100V Plus 🥳

[chrisjunlee]

== Extra: Tire Wear 1000km ==

Here's how the tire looks at 1000km (620 miles). Been a bit busy to post it couple nights ago, but better late than never!

Edited September 11, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Extra: Tire Wear 1000km ==

Here's how the tire looks at 1000km (620 miles). Been a bit busy to post it couple nights ago, but better late than never!

Would be interesting to see the photo! 😉

[meepmeepmayer]

Yes, the Google Photo links are always wonky. I cannot see those pictures of yours as well.

18 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Even with the rain and wind, managed to break a lot of strava records:

Those poor Spandex people...

[chrisjunlee]

15 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yes, the Google Photo links are always wonky. I cannot see those pictures of yours as well.

OH! No wonder I can see them. I didn't realize it was hotlinked to my gdrive. Fixed!

15 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Those poor Spandex people...

That's the e-bike leaderboards! ⚡

Edited September 10, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[meepmeepmayer]

Now it works.

Edited September 10, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Rywokast]

18 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Extra: Tire Wear 1000km ==

Here's how the tire looks at 1000km (620 miles). Been a bit busy to post it couple nights ago, but better late than never!

looks practically good as new.. funny because i remember recently seeing someone elses nikola tire at 1000 kilometres (or maybe it was miles?) and it was totally bare lol

Edited September 10, 2019 by Rywokast

[chrisjunlee]

2 hours ago, Rywokast said:

looks practically good as new.. funny because i remember recently seeing someone elses nikola tire at 1000 kilometres (or maybe it was miles?) and it was totally bare lol

I wonder what's different. Can you find the post/user?

[Gustesta]

5 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I wonder what's different. Can you find the post/user?

Maybe the weight of the riders is very different.

[Rywokast]

6 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I wonder what's different. Can you find the post/user?

nothing, i was way off lmao... 1600 miles.. i remembered that totally wrong xD still ive had plenty of tires with more distance than that and they all look perfect

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Rywokast

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, Rywokast said:

nothing, i was way off lmao... 1600 miles.. i remembered that totally wrong xD still ive had plenty of tires with more distance than that and they all look perfect

haha, awesome! Thank you for looking that up. Now I wish I kept measurements of the center tread with a caliper! Yet another tool to dig out of storage I guess.

[leadfeathers]

On 9/9/2019 at 9:28 PM, chrisjunlee said:

== Day 19 - Mon 9/9/2019 ==

Had my first wet commute 💦. We're talking within 5 minutes soaked to my boxer briefs. At 30mph, the rain feels like icicles on your lips.

Even with the rain and wind, managed to break a lot of strava records:

🦆

The EUC.world log for this ride:

[reminder: post video of 520 run]

And I've hit over 700 miles on the Nikola 100V Plus 🥳

38 mph in the rain, you madman

Edited September 11, 2019 by leadfeathers