Going tubeless - anyone tried it? If not, why?

[Boogieman]

I really dont like tubes for two reasons.

1) Hard to find right angle of valve

2. Adds unsprung weight and imbalance

So, i found this on ali express.

If someone tried, is there a good reason not to go tubeless? Example:

- tyre cannot hold air

- tyre not stable without tube

- tubeless can deflate quickly if going over sharp edge (leading to,you know->face+ground+blood)

Edited August 19, 2019 by Boogieman

[Rywokast]

marty did it with an mten.. they now come with tubeless but he converted his original one i believe.. its on his youtube channel.. z10 is tubeless.. otherwise they make no other models tubeless.. i would assume purely because its cheaper to have tubes lol.. if you know what youre doing and its done properly i cant see any downsides to going tubeless except maybe if you get a large puncture you would have to replace the tire instead of replacing a cheap tube,, not sure how effective attempting to patch an euc tire would be... but thats practically unheard of.. if you have good sealant in there it should be able to mitigate most small punctures but changing the tire for any reason would be a pain in the ass compared to just swapping out a tube, which generally last a very long time for most people

Edited August 21, 2019 by Rywokast

[RoCan]

I think @mrelwood converted his MSX with good results.

[atdlzpae]

What's the advantage of tubeless+sealant when compared to tube+sealant?

[Rywokast]

5 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

What's the advantage of tubeless+sealant when compared to tube+sealant?

well the most common reason for flats is worn tubes which sealant will not help, not punctured tubes.. so tubeless mitigates that problem plus its much easier to seal a small puncture in a tire vs in a tube because generally you would have to take the entire euc apart and remove the tire to see the tube vs being able to see and repairing the actual tire without disassembly

Edited August 21, 2019 by Rywokast

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, RoCan said:

I think @mrelwood converted his MSX with good results.

I did indeed. For me it was only to experiment wether it would be more comfortable on bumps and for off-roading.

One thing to note is that the outer tires themselves should also be of a tubeless variety, which I don’t think are available in any regular EUC sizes. Actual motorcycle tires excluded.

I don’t know wether that or something else is the reason that I’ve started to slowly lose the pressure on my tubeless MSX. Getting the tire to initially seal was extremely difficult without a compressor, so I might’ve lost some sealant from the most crucial places. Also, I’m not sure wether the puncture sealant I used was the right kind for sealing the sidewall of a tubeless install.

3 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

What's the advantage of tubeless+sealant when compared to tube+sealant?

To me the main one turned out to be the decreased bounciness, especially when riding up sloped curbs often found on cycleways that cross a car street.

I did find one disadvantage as well, which is that due to the difficult initial seal, I wasn’t able to center the tire like I could with slowly filling up a tube. Therefore the tire does not run quite straight.

[Boogieman]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I did indeed. For me it was only to experiment wether it would be more comfortable on bumps and for off-roading.

One thing to note is that the outer tires themselves should also be of a tubeless variety, which I don’t think are available in any regular EUC sizes. Actual motorcycle tires excluded.

I don’t know wether that or something else is the reason that I’ve started to slowly lose the pressure on my tubeless MSX. Getting the tire to initially seal was extremely difficult without a compressor, so I might’ve lost some sealant from the most crucial places. Also, I’m not sure wether the puncture sealant I used was the right kind for sealing the sidewall of a tubeless install.

To me the main one turned out to be the decreased bounciness, especially when riding up sloped curbs often found on cycleways that cross a car street.

I did find one disadvantage as well, which is that due to the difficult initial seal, I wasn’t able to center the tire like I could with slowly filling up a tube. Therefore the tire does not run quite straight.

@mrelwood Nice info here :-)

did you use the kind of valve in the image? Which one (tightened by nut or just rubber "pop in"?) I found theese variants.

Double nut lock type, maybe such a short straight valve could work on the tesla. Minimal protrution, weight

SEK 9.84  17%OFF | 1pair Tire Wheel Schrader Valve Tubeless No Tube Stem Motorcycle Car Bike ATV Bicycle Drop shipping
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/t93F5wjhp

SEK 7.77 | Motorcycle Scooter Tubeless Tire Valve Stem Straight Bent 90 135 degree Copper Silver Valve For ATV Motorbike Quad
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/P9t47URWL

SEK 15.64 | Motorcycle Scooter Moped Motorbike  Electric-bike E-Scooter Wheel TUBELESS Tire Valve Stem Bent
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/qBdY69ycx

SEK 15.64 | Motorcycle Scooter Moped Motorbike Wheel TUBELESS Tire Valve Stem Bent for GY6
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/0dxsow5R5

Theese look nice, but function is key.

SEK 93.21  10%OFF | 2Pcs/Set Motorcycle Tubeless Wheel Tire Valve Stem With CNC 5 colors For DUCATI 696 749 996 848 1098 1198 1199 And Other models
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/Z58Q8MdDv

 

MOUNTING

Did you use "rim grease" like they do with car tyres? It should allow the tyre to slide on easier and probably allow centering easier too (as you pump it, maybe even add a slight sealing effect against the rim). When pumping a car tire, they often over pump it until the edges "pop out" and then decrease pressure to correct pressure. Maybe this is all that is needed for perfect centering?

I am guessing the lubrication effect goes away as the tyre i pumped and the layer gets thin, otherwise Car tyres wouldnt work to brake with :-)

Overall sealant in a tyre creates imbalance. I wouldn't use it on a new tubeless tyre. I carry a smallgas peopelled  sealant + pump spray canister with me in the backpack instead, should I get a flat. Of course it can prevent slow deflation of the tyre with slime, but those punctures should be less dsngerous than sn instant deflate (mega hole) and I doubt any sealant can mend such a hole. When i got a quick discharge flat i imediatelly noticed the wheel would not go in the direction i wanted, luckily i found out when getting on the wheel and not in speed. The slime i guess is more of a safety measure for that kind of issue.

Since I inserted sealant (60ml) in my tesla tyre i can feel the imbalance when riding, not sideways but up/down like a juddery rotation.

going to change ny TESLA tyre during winter break as its allmost zero thread left on the middle, so was thinking of going tubeless. As the Kenda is specced for higher PSI i was hoping it is better if running tubeless. On the other hand it might be specced higher due to softer side walls? Did you comparr kenda with CST regarding side wall stiffness?

 

Regarding side wall sealant, i guess thats the least of problems, at least i have never hade a side wall puncture on any car or bike or motor bike. My gf have had several, but that's because some idiot punctured her tires with a needle for some idiot reason (probably didnt like that she parked on the public street in front of their house, many others have had similar issues in front of this house, so its pretty obvious that its the retarded house owner making his own rules for the public road/parking)

LINK TO MTEN going tubeless (thanks for info to get a search started @Rywokast)

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Boogieman

[mrelwood]

41 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

@mrelwood Nice info here :-)

did you use the kind of valve in the image? Which one (tightened by nut or just rubber "pop in"?) I found theese variants.

I bought both, but ended up using the screw-on type. The EUC rims are quite a bit thicker than both valves were meant for, so I had to use a different rubber seal under the tightening nut than what was provided with the valve.

 

41 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

MOUNTING

So far the EUCs I’ve changed tires on seem to have not been designed for the tire to ”pop in” on the ridge in the rim, the ridge is too low for that. The MiniPro that is designed to be run tubeless does pop. The lower ridge might be the reason that there are so many badly ”seated” / centered tires on EUCs, since there is nothing but the inner tube to guide the tire to the correct place when inflated.

I used dish washing liquid as a rim grease, following the tips from a tire mechanic here at the forum, don’t remember who. Water is to be avoided, since even an aluminium rim will eventually corrode and leak when in contact with water.

Tubeless MTB tires always use sealant in them. Not sure if it is required because of being tubeless, or just to function as a puncture seal.

I didn’t use the sealant to protect from side wall punctures, but to help seal the tire on the rim. The tires haven’t generally been totally straight, so a sealant helps with the mounting as well as filling any leftover air passages.

41 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

Did you comparr kenda with CST regarding side wall stiffness?

I haven’t compared very closely, since I’m not sure if it matters to me very much. I’m sure I would just compensate with the tire pressure. I can say that I haven’t noticed differences that would stand out. Except when going for a motorcycle tire of course.

[Boogieman]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

1. I bought both, but ended up using the screw-on type. The EUC rims are quite a bit thicker than both valves were meant for, so I had to use a different rubber seal under the tightening nut than what was provided with the valve.

2. I used dish washing liquid as a rim grease, following the tips from a tire mechanic here at the forum, don’t remember who. Water is to be avoided, since even an aluminium rim will eventually corrode and leak when in contact with water.

3. I didn’t use the sealant to protect from side wall punctures, but to help seal the tire on the rim. The tires haven’t generally been totally straight, so a sealant helps with the mounting as well as filling any leftover air passages.

1. So you changed the rubber next to the bulgy washer to a thinner one? I guess the bulgy shape of the washer is to "press on the skirt" of the rubber instead of the centre, still its the bottom part that creates the seal against the rim, so top rubber is more to allow flex of some degree and take up uneveness if rim is curved. Could likely skip the top rubber all together if the rim surface is flat.

2. Dont dishwasher liquid contain a bit of water? So no mixing dishwasher soap with water at least then. 

3. Don't sealant contain water?

So maybe one can use sealant pre applied on the tyre skirt that is pressing against the rim if it doesnt seal, to minimze amount being thrown around in the tyre.? (Also rim gets goed up if inside, and worst case it reaches the valve clogging it up. I mean to get sealant on the edges one would have to put the rim horisontal and swirl around

Edited August 21, 2019 by Boogieman

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, Boogieman said:

1. So you changed the rubber next to the bulgy washer to a thinner one?

Exactly. I didn’t have the perfect size available, but the seal inside the rim alone should make a good seal.

9 hours ago, Boogieman said:

2. Dont dishwasher liquid contain a bit of water? So no mixing dishwasher soap with water at least then.

I guess most liquids in general contain some water, but I was using soapy water before, and that’s what I was guided against. Raw dish washing liquid contains much less.

9 hours ago, Boogieman said:

So maybe one can use sealant pre applied on the tyre skirt

Absolutely, I wouldn’t even try without.