Afeez Kay's legendary EUC world tour 2019 (new wheel info galore!)

[ir_fuel]

10 hours ago, Jean Dublin said:

without remote, just leaning. 

Sounds cool. That's something I don't like with eskates, you are a passenger and need to follow what happens under you. With euc/onewheel the lean is natural with the acceleration.

[Asphalt]

5 hours ago, Afeez Kay said:

So while I was on the manufacturing floor at Gotway, I asked if the MCM5 can/will be getting a 2000w motor, and Mr Lin, (owner Of Gotway) said only with a 100v control board.. I obviously told him it will be a great idea. 😁

Wow, I didn’t think the MCM5 needed any more torque, but now it’s going to be able to climb cliff faces!

Is Gotway solely focused on improving motor power and speed? Or are they also considering improvements to ergonomics and maintenance?

[Afeez Kay]

4 hours ago, Asphalt said:

Wow, I didn’t think the MCM5 needed any more torque, but now it’s going to be able to climb cliff faces!

Is Gotway solely focused on improving motor power and speed? Or are they also considering improvements to ergonomics and maintenance?

Mr Lin sees Gotway a competition and recreation rideables company first before a first and last mile vehicle creator for the city. They are focused on performance and  believe hardware improvements first before Firmware updates and ergonomics. But they are making an effort to improve ergonomic. 😁

Edited August 22, 2019 by Afeez Kay

[Afeez Kay]

So I rode with @Kuji Rolls again today on both the 16x and the MSX for his review of the 16X.. this guy is a monster with reflexes and hazard perception that is bothering on Godlike level. The only rider that I have ridden with that is on thesame level of Godlike abilities on an EUC is Tishawn Fahie.. 

During the video recording I made it clear to Kuji that it would be a good idea to showcase the 16x abilities in city traffic, and what better place to showcase the 16x than in busy Beijing traffic.. the 16x is an awesome wheel in this torque demanding environment, where split decisions and decisiveness is key; one wrong move and you could be in a world of hurt.

And what better rider to extract every ounce of capability from the 16x than@Kuji Rolls

This Wheel is not a top speed monster like the MSX we also had during our 65KM ride around Beijing today, but 16x is the torque monster the MSX wishes it could be.

The best combination is an MSX for trails and some high speed Point A to B travels and the 16X for city rides that are below 45kph.

I am honoured to be the camera man for this 16x review, I hope I helped capture the capability of this great wheel and it’s amazing rider in Kuji.

Kuji Rolls, take a bow 🙇‍♂️ 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Afeez Kay

[Mike Warner]

Great thread - thanks for all the info @Afeez Kay. I don’t suppose you’re back in the UK in time for the Forest Of Dean meet this bank holiday Monday?

[photorph]

Wow any new Gotway wheel I get is already gonna be outdated.  I thought that once I got my 100v Nikola I’d be set.  But now the 21700 cell Nikola...and a new MSX.

 

also Gotway should focus on EUC!  There are too many people in esk8 that have been doing it for too long, Gotway will not be able to compete.  

Edited August 23, 2019 by photorph

[Afeez Kay]

2 hours ago, Mike Warner said:

Great thread - thanks for all the info @Afeez Kay. I don’t suppose you’re back in the UK in time for the Forest Of Dean meet this bank holiday Monday?

I will be back by then 😁

[Mike Warner]

Nice - hope to see you there!

[Jason Patrick]

Did Gotway Mention if they plan to upgrade the monster to either a bigger wheel 24" or 26" and if they are planning on creating a 126v version of the monster. I want a 3000Wh, 2500watt motor and 126v machine. That is my dream EUC. 

[Gustesta]

22 minutes ago, Afeez Kay said:

This has to be one of the longest thread on this forum.. Carry on all .. don't mind me 

Patiently waiting for my Nik Plus 21700 and KS16X.

Have you bought the New Nikola Plus with the 21700?  Did the vendor tell you what the differences are from the earlier model?

[Afeez Kay]

1 hour ago, Gustesta said:

Have you bought the New Nikola Plus with the 21700?  Did the vendor tell you what the differences are from the earlier model?

Mainly the battery cells and some improvements to the LED lights.. oh and my name specifically for my wheel..courtesy of Mr Lin himself  

[Gustesta]

3 minutes ago, Afeez Kay said:

Mainly the battery cells and some improvements to the LED lights.. oh and my name specifically for my wheel..courtesy of Mr Lin himself  

Thank you!  Are those battery cells gonna make the wheel lighter and faster?

 

[Afeez Kay]

15 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

Thank you!  Are those battery cells gonna make the wheel lighter and faster?

 

I have actually ridden the 21700 at the Gotway factory, and they are more balanced, as there are just two banks of battery packs on either side. I did not carry it.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Afeez Kay

[Garrie Lim]

5 hours ago, Gustesta said:

Thank you!  Are those battery cells gonna make the wheel lighter and faster?

 

21700 cells are just bigger cells compared to the usual 18650 cells. Hint: the dimensions of the cell corresponds to the type of cell! 

 

Whether using 21700 cells makes the wheel lighter depends on the specs of the battery. The main difference is it has much higher capacity than 18650 cells. 

So for the same voltage and capacity, you require lesser cells, but because 21700

is slightly heavier than 18650, how much lighter also depends on how many cells u require. 

[meepmeepmayer]

6 hours ago, Gustesta said:

Thank you!  Are those battery cells gonna make the wheel lighter and faster?

They can make it lighter. The highest capacity 22700 cells are advertised as having up to 20% more energy density compared to the highest capacity 18650 cells (at least their marketing says that, not sure how reliable that is, I only quickly googled for this). So 20% more range for the same weight. Nothing spectacular, but still a great piece of progress (if true).

Faster depends on the voltage, you can get the desired voltage with both types of batteries. So I don't believe there will be a speed difference strictly from the cell type.

Edited September 4, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Gustesta]

20 minutes ago, Garrie Lim said:

21700 cells are just bigger cells compared to the usual 18650 cells. Hint: the dimensions of the cell corresponds to the type of cell! 

 

Whether using 21700 cells makes the wheel lighter depends on the specs of the battery. The main difference is it has much higher capacity than 18650 cells. 

So for the same voltage and capacity, you require lesser cells, but because 21700

is slightly heavier than 18650, how much lighter also depends on how many cells u require. 

But 21700's discharge rate is much higher, isn't it?  When the IPS I5 started using those batteries on the new version, the speed went higher.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 minute ago, Gustesta said:

But 21700's discharge rate is much higher, isn't it?  When the IPS I5 started using those batteries on the new version, the speed went higher.

That was probably just because the 21700 battery was bigger and allowed for more speed with the same safety level as the smaller 18650 battery.

With the comparably huge batteries in 1600Wh and similar wheels, current is no longer a limitation, and you can drive the motor as fast as it can go. And that only depends on the voltage, the motor doesn't even see which kind of batteries feed it.

But maybe there are secondary effects from the 21700s that allow for more speed somehow, I'm certainly not ruling that out.

[Gustesta]

6 hours ago, Afeez Kay said:

I have actually ridden the 21700 at the Gotway factory, and they are more balanced, as there are just two banks of battery packs on either side. I did not carry it.

Nice!  Do you have any idea when the new Tesla will be released?

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Gustesta said:

But 21700's discharge rate is much higher, isn't it?  When the IPS I5 started using those batteries on the new version, the speed went higher.

Discharge for both 21700, 18650, all lithium batteries really, is cell model dependent.

The popular cells for the top model EUCs today are 18650s, LG MJ1's & Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA's, which do 10A max per cell.

The top iPS i5 version used Sanyo/Panasonic 20700B cells which output 15A max, hence more discharge.

The cells shown in @Afeez Kay's pictures look to be Samsung 21700 40T's, which do 30A max.

 

[Gustesta]

10 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Discharge for both 21700, 18650, all lithium batteries really, is cell model dependent.

The popular cells for the top model EUCs today are 18650s, LG MJ1's & Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA's, which do 10A max per cell.

The top iPS i5 version used Sanyo/Panasonic 20700B cells which output 15A max, hence more discharge.

The cells shown in @Afeez Kay's pictures look to be Samsung 21700 40T's, which do 30A max.

 

Wow!  That’s a big improvement on the maximum rate.

[houseofjob]

7 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

Wow!  That’s a big improvement on the maximum rate.

FWIW, we've had high discharge cells for awhile now in the 18650 standard (LG HG2 20A (these were used on some old wheels with 2P packs to prevent voltage sag), Samsung 30Q 15A), but it usually came at a cost in cell capacity. Not so much with the progress of the 21700 standard.

Edited September 5, 2019 by houseofjob

[Ben Kim]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

They can make it lighter. The highest capacity 22700 cells are advertised as having up to 20% more energy density compared to the highest capacity 18650 cells (at least their marketing says that, not sure how reliable that is, I only quickly googled for this). So 20% more range for the same weight. Nothing spectacular, but still a great piece of progress (if true).

Faster depends on the voltage, you can get the desired voltage with both types of batteries. So I don't believe there will be a speed difference strictly from the cell type.

not to mention double the cost. Prepare for the $3500 nikola if equipped with 21700 cells. 

 

[mrelwood]

One thing about the 21700 cells is that the amount of cells in a 100V wheel must still be a multiple of 24 cells. The capacity of a high current 21700 battery seems to be around 4000mAh, so the same amount of cells of a current 100V 1865Wh (24S6P) wheel would make for a capacity of 2131Wh.

But since the cell is that much bigger, the same amount of cells won’t fit in the wheel. 24S5P (100V) would make it 1776Wh, but it would still need to fit a 24S3P pack, or 2* 24S2P and one 24S1P. The most likely candidate, two identical packs per side would be 24S4P (100V), 1421Wh.

I wouldn’t be interested on a 1421Wh 21700 wheel right now.

 

Edit: The cost though, at Nkon, a Sanyo NCR18650GA (MSX) costs 4.25€, so 0.33€/Wh.

Samsung INR21700-40T (35A) costs 5.95€, which is 0.40€/Wh.

Not a huge difference.

Edited September 5, 2019 by mrelwood

[Gaz Bon]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Edit: The cost though, at Nkon, a Sanyo NCR18650GA (MSX) costs 4.25€, so 0.33€/Wh.

Samsung INR21700-40T (35A) costs 5.95€, which is 0.40€/Wh.

Not a huge difference.

Not a huge difference maybe 

but Only if the manufacturer passes on their buying power as development costs have to be covered 

I have a feeling will be more costly to begin and as with most things and time prices will drop as more wheel sell

[Gustesta]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

One thing about the 21700 cells is that the amount of cells in a 100V wheel must still be a multiple of 24 cells. The capacity of a high current 21700 battery seems to be around 4000mAh, so the same amount of cells of a current 100V 1865Wh (24S6P) wheel would make for a capacity of 2131Wh.

But since the cell is that much bigger, the same amount of cells won’t fit in the wheel. 24S5P (100V) would make it 1776Wh, but it would still need to fit a 24S3P pack, or 2* 24S2P and one 24S1P. The most likely candidate, two identical packs per side would be 24S4P (100V), 1421Wh.

I wouldn’t be interested on a 1421Wh 21700 wheel right now.

 

Edit: The cost though, at Nkon, a Sanyo NCR18650GA (MSX) costs 4.25€, so 0.33€/Wh.

Samsung INR21700-40T (35A) costs 5.95€, which is 0.40€/Wh.

Not a huge difference.

Gotway already started selling the new Nikolas with the new battery 21700 cells.  There's no raise on prices so far.