Do you get speed/braking wobbles on your KS-16X

[Nic]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Gotta get paid you know!
There were two main nightclubs in Torrevieja, Spain at that time. One was called KKO and the other was Pacha. Then there were some other like Chaplin and Chaplin Costa but they were a bit further off. I was usually at KKO. But sometimes I would go to other clubs in other towns nearby with my three friends, Jimmy, David and Jean-Claude. Then we would dance at the clubs for money and drinks, meet chicks, dance at dance competitions and so on. Hahaha. And now i'm married to a dancer. And she's married to a nerd. She's the real deal... but on the other hand... so am I.

Wheel, wheel, wheel what do we have here? That's what made it sound like you were arguing against it. Which is what triggered the whole discussion.

Now tell me.. if you could only choose between these two would you drink Pepsi or Pepsi Max?

The low sugar one please...

I think this just goes to show that one should never jump to conclusions because it is very easy to misunderstand someone when simply reading text.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Nic

[Mike Sacristan]

 

11 minutes ago, Nic said:

12 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

35-45 PSI for the stock tire on the 16X.
Just checked my MSX and it's the same!

You are running it well below spec then...

Please read this.

https://www.ewheels.com/guide-tires-appropriate-pressures-electric-unicycle/

11 minutes ago, Nic said:

What is the maximum load rated at (kg)?

Edited 2 minutes ago by Nic

MSX tire has same rating 35-45 PSI despite being larger. At 35 PSI it is as hard as a rock. Even for a 90kg rider. My friend complained that my MSX was harder than his Nikola (my pump is off by 10 PSI). This is for a 18x3 tire.

[Nic]

36 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

 

Please read this.

https://www.ewheels.com/guide-tires-appropriate-pressures-electric-unicycle/

MSX tire has same rating 35-45 PSI despite being larger. At 35 PSI it is as hard as a rock. Even for a 90kg rider. My friend complained that my MSX was harder than his Nikola (my pump is off by 10 PSI). This is for a 18x3 tire.

So your 23 psi may actually be 33 psi when you run your test later? This is an interesting point as those complaining about lack of comfort at 'recommended' tyre pressures may have a similar pump to yours.

From your link...

Quote

https://www.ewheels.com/guide-tires-appropriate-pressures-electric-unicycle/

The correct pressure is a matter of finding a balance between an optimized efficiency & your preferred level of ride comfort. If the air pressure is too high, then it will not absorb any of the bumps or irregularity of the road, which is arguably the main point of having a pneumatic tire. If on the other hand there is not enough air, the tire creates what is known as a ‘rolling resistance’, it gets warm to the touch, reduces speed/efficiency & most problematic of all, causes premature flats—in our experience over 90% of all flats are a result of insufficient tire pressure!

Another issue that can happen is that the inner tube can be worn thin by rubbing against the inside of the tyre until it bursts. This is why tubeless tyres are best when running lower pressures. Z10 is the only tubeless tyre EUC as far as I know and it also has minimal sidewall on the tyre, which makes it perfect for running at low pressures and possibly even when flat, though I don't recommend that as some damage will occur. It would be nice if more EUC manufacturers would move to tubeless tyres.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Nic

[Jon Stern]

34 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

There were two main nightclubs in Torrevieja, Spain at that time. One was called KKO and the other was Pacha.

Did you ever dance at Pacha, Ibiza?

I've not been to Pacha on the mainland, but I've been to the one in Ibiza many times, often with friends who were headlining.

I've never.been that big a fan of that venue. Too many snooty people literally and figuratively looking down at people on the dancefloor from their VIP tables.

I did have a few amazing nights there though.

[Mike Sacristan]

15 minutes ago, Nic said:

So your 23 psi may actually be 33 psi when you run your test later? This is an interesting point as those complaining about lack of comfort at 'recommended' tyre pressures may have a similar pump to yours.

From your link...

 

No... my PSI is my PSI in real world PSI and not according to my pump. Otherwise numbers would have no meaning nor would this conversation.
I was stating an example where I accidentally pumped my MSX to 35 PSI. I thought it was 25 PSI. He felt it was hard as a rock. We checked with his pump and it said 38 PSI.

This is what I was hoping you would find from the link as it was relevant to your question and thoughts regarding recommended PSI.
Your question and statement below.

38 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

  57 minutes ago, Nic said:

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

35-45 PSI for the stock tire on the 16X.
Just checked my MSX and it's the same!

You are running it well below spec then...

And below what I was hoping you would find:

"Some people have raised the concern that the pressure & maximum weight printed on the tire are considerably below what Electric Unicycle manufacturers have for their ‘supported weight’. These modern tires are made from an extremely high-strength woven nylon material, with production running to the millions of tires a year; we’ve never encountered, or heard of, a case of a burst tire before—this is not to say that it can’t happen. According to industry sources, they say that tire manufacturers have a tendency to use overly conservative ratings in order to minimize their warranty obligations, but in the internal testing departments, the actual loads that the tires are subjected to, before failure, can be upwards of 5-10x greater than the marked specification."

Also if you scroll further down you can find guidelines for PSI as a chart.
As you can see there are no figures for 19x3 nor 17x3 but you can calculate those.

 

[Mike Sacristan]

21 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Did you ever dance at Pacha, Ibiza?

I've not been to Pacha on the mainland, but I've been to the one in Ibiza many times, often with friends who were headlining.

I've never.been that big a fan of that venue. Too many snooty people literally and figuratively looking down at people on the dancefloor from their VIP tables.

I did have a few amazing nights there though.

I have never been to Ibiza. But one day I should check it out.
We didn't have VIP back in those days but we have plenty of snooty people in Stockholm so I know exactly what you mean. 

Now what makes this more interesting is that you are from SF Bay Area. All the way to Ibiza?

[Mike Sacristan]

[Nic]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

No... my PSI is my PSI in real world PSI and not according to my pump. Otherwise numbers would have no meaning nor would this conversation.
I was stating an example where I accidentally pumped my MSX to 35 PSI. I thought it was 25 PSI. He felt it was hard as a rock. We checked with his pump and it said 38 PSI.

This is what I was hoping you would find from the link as it was relevant to your question and thoughts regarding recommended PSI.
Your question and statement below.

And below what I was hoping you would find:

"Some people have raised the concern that the pressure & maximum weight printed on the tire are considerably below what Electric Unicycle manufacturers have for their ‘supported weight’. These modern tires are made from an extremely high-strength woven nylon material, with production running to the millions of tires a year; we’ve never encountered, or heard of, a case of a burst tire before—this is not to say that it can’t happen. According to industry sources, they say that tire manufacturers have a tendency to use overly conservative ratings in order to minimize their warranty obligations, but in the internal testing departments, the actual loads that the tires are subjected to, before failure, can be upwards of 5-10x greater than the marked specification."

Also if you scroll further down you can find guidelines for PSI as a chart.
As you can see there are no figures for 19x3 nor 17x3 but you can calculate those.

 

Yes tyres are rated conservatively because people will do tricks and jumps which will stress those ratings and tyres do deteriorate over time, so lots of safety margin are required. But tyres do fail even with all the over engineering. It will be interesting to hear how you get on with your testing.

[Mike Sacristan]

I will keep you all informed. I wanted to do all my tests at 30 PSI first as people say the 16X wobbles less at lower PSI.
All my tests are now done and I feel that I am acquainted enough with the 16X and have done all my riding so far under the worst circumstances (barring going even higher PSI).
All wobbles that have occurred so far have been induced by me and not the wheel anyway.

[Jon Stern]

14 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I have never been to Ibiza. But one day I should check it out.
We didn't have VIP back in those days but we have plenty of snooty people in Stockholm so I know exactly what you mean. 

Now what makes this more interesting is that you are from SF Bay Area. All the way to Ibiza?

Actually I'm from the UK. I've just been living in California for 20 years.

I started going to Ibiza in '95 or thereabouts. Even after I moved to the US, I would still go. Taking my (now) wife over and visiting friends in the dance music industry.

[Mike Sacristan]

I will post this image here as well so the discussion is kept more relevant.

 

Rider weight. In my case 66kg/145lbs.
For an 18XL I would ride at 25PSI according to this recommendation.
If 18XL = 18*2.5 = 45 = 45/45*25 = 25PSI
16X = 16*3 = 48 = 45/48*25 = 23.4PSI
MSX = 18*3 = 54 = 45/54*25 = 20.8PSI

The numbers are conservative as the MSX and 16X/Nikola have higher profile tires than the 18XL so there is room to go even lower.

[Mike Sacristan]

32 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Actually I'm from the UK. I've just been living in California for 20 years.

I started going to Ibiza in '95 or thereabouts. Even after I moved to the US, I would still go. Taking my (now) wife over and visiting friends in the dance music industry.

I figured! 
Wow that's a long way. Must be a long flight. On the other hand I have been to Perth, Australia a few times... and it was worth it.

[Mike Sacristan]

Riding at high PSI...

2:07. 

 

[MaxLinux]

6 hours ago, Nic said:

Its your lucky day...

 

 

11:23 Perfect tagline for the description box: "This wheel's been christened with my blood!"

[stephen]

Even though i do set my psi originally i am some what lazy and just get my wheel out and ride these days, it might go from 40psi on my msx and when i feel it's getting to soft it might be 25 psi when i pump it back up😁 so i think i experience all tyre pressures at some point , i think i can tell when it gets to soft and sometimes i just pump it with a hand pump and feel the tyre till it's some what hard lol, can't wait to ride the 16x I'm living the thought of a little gyro affect but looking forward to a little torque at setting off speed just for fun ,,, expensive fun 😊,,

[Patton250]

7 hours ago, stephen said:

Even though i do set my psi originally i am some what lazy and just get my wheel out and ride these days, it might go from 40psi on my msx and when i feel it's getting to soft it might be 25 psi when i pump it back up😁 so i think i experience all tyre pressures at some point , i think i can tell when it gets to soft and sometimes i just pump it with a hand pump and feel the tyre till it's some what hard lol, can't wait to ride the 16x I'm living the thought of a little gyro affect but looking forward to a little torque at setting off speed just for fun ,,, expensive fun 😊,,

 I never even bothered to try 40 psi on the 16X. The reason why is 30 psi was already so terrible I figured whats the point.  I’m going to try it today for fun. 

[Mrd777]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 I never even bothered to try 40 psi on the 16X. The reason why is 30 psi was already so terrible I figured whats the point.  I’m going to try it today for fun. 

I really think you should give higher pressure some more time, just stick with it longer.. at first it will feel twitchy, however after adjustment you will feel the real beauty of a firm tire. I ride my Nikola at 43psi.  Its the same thing with raising a bike seat, once adjusted to a higher seat  the bike flies, and you will never go back

Edited August 26, 2019 by Mrd777

[Mike Sacristan]

Today I tried the tire at ~23 PSI. I don't know exactly though. It feels as firm as my MSX did at 30 PSI.
This means I still get launched on some bumps, but I prefer that to the tire being completely mute.
I did 95km and had 13% battery left according to Darknessbot. Which I know was wrong if looking at voltage. I could still ride at 40 kmh.

Anyway the drop from 30 to 23 PSI was a huge relief. I could now ride on gravel without sliding everywhere. My knees don't ache after the ride. The wheel still felt beautifully nimble as well. I didn't have to micro manage every single crack and bump either.

I did some testing on the speedway and it performed beautifully. All the errors I experienced today like wobbling when braking were rider error due to improper technique. 

So about this stock tire.
How heavy is it? I love it and it behaves well off road as well, on rocks and roots. A bit too much deflection so a bit lower PSI would be better for me and my 68kg rider weight.

The Nikola has a much softer tire. It will wear out quite quickly. Nothing is free.

[Unventor]

13 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Today I tried the tire at ~23 PSI. I don't know exactly though. It feels as firm as my MSX did at 30 PSI.
This means I still get launched on some bumps, but I prefer that to the tire being completely mute.
I did 95km and had 13% battery left according to Darknessbot. Which I know was wrong if looking at voltage. I could still ride at 40 kmh.

Anyway the drop from 30 to 23 PSI was a huge relief. I could now ride on gravel without sliding everywhere. My knees don't ache after the ride. The wheel still felt beautifully nimble as well. I didn't have to micro manage every single crack and bump either.

I did some testing on the speedway and it performed beautifully. All the errors I experienced today like wobbling when braking were rider error due to improper technique. 

So about this stock tire.
How heavy is it? I love it and it behaves well off road as well, on rocks and roots. A bit too much deflection so a bit lower PSI would be better for me and my 68kg rider weight.

The Nikola has a much softer tire. It will wear out quite quickly. Nothing is free.

Ohh you have gain weight  you used to be 65kg right?

I actually you couldn't have put it more right about there is a trade off between soft and hard tire and the wear and sensation. Almost like a winter and summer tire for a car. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Unventor

[Okiiashi]

I'm still getting learning on my 16x  but I bumped my PSI when I had a friend take few pictures of me on and off my Kingsong.   I'm a heavy fellow so the tread were quite low when I saw the photo of the tire with me on it.  
I felt like the tire was almost caving while I turned on it.  I only bumped it up to 35 PSI compared to how I received it (28PSI).

 

 

[Mike Sacristan]

11 hours ago, Unventor said:

Ohh you have gain weight  you used to be 65kg right?

I actually you couldn't have put it more right about there is a trade off between soft and hard tire and the wear and sensation. Almost like a winter and summer tire for a car. 

Haha. I weigh 64kg. At one point I weighed 63. I just had more stuff with me. So nowadays I just post my rider weight.