How far is too far to lean?

[Blueblade]

On 8/14/2019 at 9:46 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

lol nice drawing is the green supposed to be your protective gear ?

I know there's some sharp and knowledgeable people on here but you're right I didn't realize there were such talented artists too 

[AtlasP]

Two things:

1) Regarding Marty's "I basically never lean hard into an acceleration. I accelerate more with a bending motion at the knees." --I can relate to this, I find just 'bearing down' on the wheel by pushing down with/lowering my center in an athletic pose in conjunction with bending my knees to be a very stable-feeling way to accelerate--I think this works largely just for the simple reason that it rocks more of your weight forward on the surface your foot. (Try it standing on the floor: start standing up, then drop your weight/bend your knees in an athletic pose and feel your weight shift forward on your foot.) Plus there are other advantages of having a lower center of gravity, like increasing stability and lowering wind-resistance.

2) I can also definitely relate to accelerating through a weird way of carving (carve-celerating? ;-) ) as I think houseofjob is describing although I'm not sure if his description matches the way I experience it, but I can't determine if it's because we're doing it differently or it's just the difficulty of describing the complex motion.

I would say either of these are both more common to me and feel way safer than just leaning. I don't think I ever really lean into any hard acceleration--in fact it's likely the opposite, I probably only lean into very slow accelerations.

Edited August 24, 2019 by AtlasP

[null]

I’m looking foreward to @houseofjob and @Darrell Wesh s acceleration videos, for now I still can’t grasp the concept or what it could bring me compared to my current style which is mostly like @mrelwood . Being 75kg geared and riding 16 and 14” wheels might be the reason I never felt like needing to push for acceleration.

I’m open to new stuff anyhow, and maybe these techniques can be reversed for more controlled breaking (I wobble a bit)

Anyhow, glad to learn, and thank le for sharing

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

In my opinion, even if I try to accelerate by just pushing on the toe, without leaning, sometimes leaning a bit is still needed to go faster.

It's hard for me to know how much I'm really leaning, as it comes natural at this point too.

Probably if I recorded myself accelerating from stop, I would be surprised of how much I do lean... 

With the Gotway Monster or other EUC with sitting position it's a whole different story, not that much chance to lean, and have to use the feet pressure instead, looking forward to try this myself and learn, it may also improve the normal ridding without leaning much... 

[Darrell Wesh]

HERE IT IS. Hours of practice and countless re do’s have led to what I believe is the absolute best way to accelerate an EUC. 

@houseofjob @Marty Backe@mrelwood @ir_fuel @AtlasP

The Perfect Acceleration

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

HERE IT IS. Hours of practice and countless re do’s have led to what I believe is the absolute best way to accelerate an EUC. 

@houseofjob @Marty Backe@mrelwood @ir_fuel @AtlasP

The Perfect Acceleration

It's not super clear from the video. Can you clarify if you're stretching with the left hand first followed by the right. You know, pumping it so to speak like @houseofjob on the pedals.

I'll have to give his a try

[Rywokast]

12 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

HERE IT IS. Hours of practice and countless re do’s have led to what I believe is the absolute best way to accelerate an EUC. 

@houseofjob @Marty Backe@mrelwood @ir_fuel @AtlasP

The Perfect Acceleration

ok captain superman

[Arbolest]

12 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

It's not super clear from the video. Can you clarify if you're stretching with the left hand first followed by the right. You know, pumping it so to speak like @houseofjob on the pedals.

I'll have to give his a try

I will be SORELY disappointed if there is no cape involved...

...AND A VIDEO!

[houseofjob]

55 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

HERE IT IS. Hours of practice and countless re do’s have led to what I believe is the absolute best way to accelerate an EUC. 

@houseofjob @Marty Backe@mrelwood @ir_fuel @AtlasP

The Perfect Acceleration

Nice~ nothing like I pictured in my head 

Edited September 11, 2019 by houseofjob

[Rehab1]

31 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Nice~ nothing like I pictured in my head 

This is what I pictured 

 

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

HERE IT IS. Hours of practice and countless re do’s have led to what I believe is the absolute best way to accelerate an EUC. 

@houseofjob @Marty Backe@mrelwood @ir_fuel @AtlasP

The Perfect Acceleration

And I think I know why! While yelling, you create pressure waves in front of you, as that’s how sound travels through air. On a low pressure zone, it’s obvious that acceleration is faster due to smaller air resistance. And as the high pressure zones travel forward, they sorta kinda pull you along for the ride. Win!

[Toshio Uemura]

10 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

HERE IT IS. Hours of practice and countless re do’s have led to what I believe is the absolute best way to accelerate an EUC. 

@houseofjob @Marty Backe@mrelwood @ir_fuel @AtlasP

The Perfect Acceleration

Any acceleration begins in your head. I just think:   faster ... faster .... f a s t  e  e    e     r .....  ! and don't really care how my body does it. It just happens. I trust my subconscious mind to do all the work and to protect me from danger. 😝 

As for speed and style „Chooch Tech“ is the Master Yoda of the EUC.

Train yourself to let go of anything you fear to lose and you will find the absolute best way to accelerate to heaven! 😇 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Toshio Uemura

[Mono]

On 8/14/2019 at 6:12 PM, Jim Martin said:

Aside from know this by actually attempting to accelerate/lean to fast/far to the point that the wheel just cuts out, how do you know the limits?  I'm always worried that I'm going to over lean my wheel and there isn't any warning if you do this, the wheel just cuts out and you face plant.  Does it just take time to figure out the limits?  I feel like I'm not getting the most out of my wheel because I'm afraid to accelerate too fast, but not sure what too fast is   

The problem is that the limit depends on a few factors, in particular it depends on speed. There is no way to know without trying. The worst approach is to apply a constant acceleration and not pull back with increasing speed. The good news is that when slowly approaching the limit the pedals start to feel soft (or tilt back), but this may well depend on the specific wheel.

On 8/15/2019 at 7:21 AM, houseofjob said:

Stand leaning just forward with knees bent IMHO won't be as efficient as using your bodyweight in the bracing way I described above, transmitted through alternating single locked legs (ie. pushing with a bent arm/leg is always a compromise to pushing with a straight & locked arm/leg, this is just basic physics).

The way you are describing, you are actually muscling the lean.

From the wheels perspective any way of moving the weight to the front is the same. From the drivers perspective bending the knees requires muscle action and is hence "less efficient". 

I 100% second the idea to not (never) lean forward with the upper body. Pushing the knees down, as suggest by @mrelwood, is IMHO a much safer alternative.

For safety reasons, I'd avoid to lock a knee straight. Apart from not riding at all or not riding fast, bending the knees is quite possibly the single most relevant safety action an EUC rider can ever take.

How to lean:

For showing off:

      00~    00~    00~    00~    00~    
        \     |      |     _|     _/     
        /\   /|     /|      /     /    
          \    \     /     /     /    
           \    \    \    |     /    
           O    O    O    O    O       

For playing it safe: 

              00~   00~   00~        
        00~    |     |    _|    00~
         |    /|    /|     |    _| 
        /|     /     /    //   __| 
         /_    \\    \    \    \   
           O    O    O    O    O   

 

[Meelosh123]

Has anyone ever installed pedals that are are simply lengthier, in order to have a longer lever arm?  Maybe some extra pedal length along the entire length of the EUC, with a fraction of the width of the pedal, so as not to increase any chance of pedal scrape.

[Lukas83]

12 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Any acceleration begins in your head. I just think:   faster ... faster .... f a s t  e  e    e     r .....  ! and don't really care how my body does it. It just happens. I trust my subconscious mind to do all the work and to protect me from danger. 😝 

As for speed and style „Chooch Tech“ is the Master Yoda of the EUC.

Train yourself to let go of anything you fear to lose and you will find the absolute best way to accelerate to heaven! 😇 

I love this crazy guy, he's one of the best riders I have seen so far! 

He has a great yt channel. 

[ir_fuel]

On 9/11/2019 at 1:38 AM, Darrell Wesh said:

HERE IT IS. Hours of practice and countless re do’s have led to what I believe is the absolute best way to accelerate an EUC. 

@houseofjob @Marty Backe@mrelwood @ir_fuel @AtlasP

The Perfect Acceleration

Pretty sure you could go faster by holding 2 kettlebells in your hands :p 

[Darrell Wesh]

24 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Pretty sure you could go faster by holding 2 kettlebells in your hands :p 

But that would be cheating!

[Tazarinho]

Or you could just use a flying broomstick to give you a boost!
No need for a Nimbus 2000, a 4 dollar broom from the local hardware store worked just fine for me!

[Toshio Uemura]

On 9/12/2019 at 7:20 AM, Lukas83 said:

I love this crazy guy, he's one of the best riders I have seen so far! 

He has a great yt channel. 

Right! And he rides his eHorse as if he was really sitting on an invisible race horse 🏇 Like a jockey. Great style. Lots of practice. Hope I get there in my next life. 😝 

[Giffy]

On 8/14/2019 at 1:11 PM, Jim Martin said:

Yeah, school of hard knocks usually has the answers.  Was riding last night with a friend, he's been riding for about a year and rides daily.  We're both pretty big guys, 210+ lbs.  He was on his KS16s and I was on my Nikola + and while we were riding I was telling him how overlean is really the only thing that scares me about these wheels.  As we were riding and talking he said "you know, a lot of times I'll do this...." and right at that moment he face planted and we were going about 15 to 20 mph.  He got it pretty bad, and he said that is crazy, I do that all the time and this time the wheel dumped me.

I've just experienced my first overlean. Reading this post has me thinking... The angle of which your friend was used to is probably ok at 0 to 10mph but the faster you go, the more likely you are to reach the max power output of the motor. So since you were already going 20 mph, it sounds like the power that he asked for at that moment just wasn't there because it was already outputing a good amount. 
I agree with you about overlean. It is now the only thing that scares me too. 

[Toshio Uemura]

7 hours ago, Giffy said:

He was on his KS16s and I was on my Nikola +

Did you, by chance, let him try out your Nikola+ and let him ride it for a while?

I am asking because I recently had a faceplant on my old Ninebot E+, that I love to take out for a Sunday stroll in the park once in a while nostalgic as I am. It happened in the first 2 or 3 minutes of mounting it and accelerating „as I always do“ and I believe it happened, because I got so used to the power of my Z10 and MSuperV3+ and the other strong wheels. Your body adapts easily to a stronger wheel, but taking it down a notch seems to be not that easy. So if he was on your Nicola + for a while it might have made this little difference in his perception of: "you know, a lot of times I'll do this...."! Just a thought 💭 

[Giffy]

@Toshio Uemura That was quoted from an earlier post by @Jim Martin
I didn't realize I was replying to an older post. He talked about it earlier on the first page

[erk1024]

22 hours ago, Giffy said:

I've just experienced my first overlean. Reading this post has me thinking... The angle of which your friend was used to is probably ok at 0 to 10mph but the faster you go, the more likely you are to reach the max power output of the motor. So since you were already going 20 mph, it sounds like the power that he asked for at that moment just wasn't there because it was already outputing a good amount. 

If you dig around on the forum, this has been discussed many times in great detail. So do a search or two and see if you can find it.

As an electric motor goes up in RPM, the torque remains relatively constant, but the amount of current required goes up and up. At some point, the electrical system of the wheel cannot provide any more current, and you'll overlean because of speed. The wheel does NOT "cut out", it just can't provide any more current (which translates to torque) to the wheel, and you pivot forward. The amount of current available also goes down as the battery gets low on power. The wheels will beep and tiltback trying to warn the rider (unless you disable all that).

You can also overlean because the wheel has a maximum amount of torque it can provide. If you're going forward, some of that torque is going into overcoming the rolling resistance of the wheel, air drag, etc. So the amount of torque remaining for balancing also gets smaller as the speed goes up.

So one way to get an indications that you are approaching the wheel's limits is to use Wheel Log or Darkness Bot to keep an eye on the current. On Gotway wheels, experienced riders set an alarm at 90 amps.

Finally, there is the possibility that you can overbalance and fall off the front of the wheel. I approached an asphalt ramp (with a pothole) too fast. The wheel slowed down faster than I could account for, and I fell off the front. Not a failure of the wheel, I just didn't get the dynamics right.

That's when I got to make use of my Flexmeter wrist guards...

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by erk1024

[Mono]

3 minutes ago, erk1024 said:

As an electric motor goes up in RPM, the torque remains relatively constant, but the amount of current required goes up and up.

I am not sure this is an accurate description though. For one, current and torque are equivalent: if the torque remains constant, it is the result of a constant current. Then, the maximally available current (and hence the maximally possible torque) of an electric motor goes linearly down with increasing RPM, i.e., with increasing speed less and less torque is available. And at the same time with increasing speed even more torque is needed to keep the wheel going at constant speed.

@Giffy, see e.g. 

 

[erk1024]

27 minutes ago, Mono said:

For one, current and torque are equivalent: if the torque remains constant, it is the result of a constant current.