Why the NEED to Lecture Gearless stranger on an EUC?

[Binh Nam Vu]

On 8/11/2019 at 4:13 AM, Patton250 said:

 My friend if you can go 20 mph and have your wheel cut out on you and not have your face hit the pavement I’ll give you $1000. :-)

I did it twice completely gearless in flipflops, shorts, and a short sleeved shirt. Once on an msuper v2 top speed cutout, and another on a v3s+ down a steep hill from speed wobble over 20mph. I'll take payment in the form of a 100v MSX. XD

My knees and forearms were bleeding, my hip got some light abrasion, and my big toe bled a, little, but my face got no damage at all. The back of my head on the steep hill got scraped a little as I tumbled I think? I dunno, it happened so fast, but my face was completely fine.

 

Regardless, I now wear a bell super 3r almost every time I ride now because people kept nagging me and I found it to be a very light, comfortable, and well ventilated helmet.

 

So let me know how you'll send payment. XD

[Patton250]

7 hours ago, Binh Nam Vu said:

I did it twice completely gearless in flipflops, shorts, and a short sleeved shirt. Once on an msuper v2 top speed cutout, and another on a v3s+ down a steep hill from speed wobble over 20mph. I'll take payment in the form of a 100v MSX. XD

My knees and forearms were bleeding, my hip got some light abrasion, and my big toe bled a, little, but my face got no damage at all. The back of my head on the steep hill got scraped a little as I tumbled I think? I dunno, it happened so fast, but my face was completely fine.

 

Regardless, I now wear a bell super 3r almost every time I ride now because people kept nagging me and I found it to be a very light, comfortable, and well ventilated helmet.

 

So let me know how you'll send payment. XD

 I apologize but I don’t believe you.  And I’m not going to engage in this ridiculous conversation.  If you want to try and prove Darwin correct you go right ahead. The world supposedly needs less people in it anyway. 

[Darrell Wesh]

57 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 I apologize but I don’t believe you.  And I’m not going to engage in this ridiculous conversation.  If you want to try and prove Darwin correct you go right ahead. The world supposedly needs less people in it anyway. 

Plenty of people don’t faceplant from falls. I fell off at 33mph on my MSX and despite wearing a motorcycle helmet that protruded out extensively from my head I didn’t scratch it up at all. 

[Patton250]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Plenty of people don’t faceplant from falls. I fell off at 33mph on my MSX and despite wearing a motorcycle helmet that protruded out extensively from my head I didn’t scratch it up at all. 

Ok

[Darrell Wesh]

11 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Ok

Not sure why you’re so sore about hearing people NOT faceplanting from cutouts and fast crashes. 

I didn’t advocate no helmet I merely stated a fact- not everyone faceplants and I’m willing to bet the majority wouldn’t damage their head. 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Not sure why you’re so sore about hearing people NOT faceplanting from cutouts and fast crashes. 

I didn’t advocate no helmet I merely stated a fact- not everyone faceplants and I’m willing to bet the majority wouldn’t damage their head. 

 I’m not saying that a person can get lucky depending on the way they land.  I’m just saying that would be extremely rare and if any poor new person reads a person saying that they can avoid hitting their head when spilling at 20 mph and decides that’s a good enough reason to not wear a helmet then that makes me very sad.  I think you and I disagreed on this earlier let’s just agree to disagree. 

 

Edit-  oh, and I’m not sore about it just sad. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Patton250

[LanghamP]

13 hours ago, Binh Nam Vu said:

The back of my head on the steep hill got scraped a little as I tumbled I think? I dunno, it happened so fast, but my face was completely fine.

I've noticed this has happened to me twice on higher speed crashes, where initially you don't think you hit your head at all, but then the back of your helmet skimmed the pavement.

Cutout or overlean? I think an overlean, whereby the pedals sag, is very survivable with some damage, but a cutout? Cutout = near death experience.

[Binh Nam Vu]

On 8/16/2019 at 9:01 AM, Hsiang said:

As had been mentioned, IMHO wrist guard might be even more important since you might not hit your head in a fall, but you'll very likely land on your hands. But people seem to assign some magical protective qualities to helmets, to the point that driver seems to be willing to take more risk around you if you were wearing a helmet.

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a25358099/drivers-give-helmet-cyclists-less-room/

I fell pretty bad twice and once not as bad. My knees and forearms took most the damage. I'm not sure why all the wrist guard talk. 

[Binh Nam Vu]

On 8/20/2019 at 1:55 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

It’s just silly to see people riding around on MIPS full face helmets or $500 motorcycle helmets but have a t shirt and shorts on with no other gear. 

And then they fall and they never hit their head but have to take off work because their hands are so badly abraded they can’t grip anything or type. 

My priority for gear is based on the most likely part to be damaged in a crash. So gloves is highest priority, followed by knee pads (from my falling history). Gloves are mandatory even on 2min trips to the store. Helmet is not.

Helmets are for show and will at least prevent me from becoming a vegetable if anything. Helmet is for if someone crashes into you. All other gear is for if your wheel fails, you're doing trick riding, or you ride like a moron. Wheel failure will rarely happen if you're not pushing it, but if you're riding like a moron, weaving through people/traffic, flying past pedestrians, not stopping/slowing at all blind intersections, riding the beeps, then yes, you probably need full gear all the time.

People and a cop gave me shit for not wearing a helmet, so I started wearing one. If I can't work for a few days from abrasions, then I guess I'll take a forced vacation, no big deal. I work from home repairing computers. I never take a sick/injured day off.

[Binh Nam Vu]

17 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 I apologize but I don’t believe you.  And I’m not going to engage in this ridiculous conversation.  If you want to try and prove Darwin correct you go right ahead. The world supposedly needs less people in it anyway. 

Here you go https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10162237817005319&id=903610318 photos of my injuries and damage to the wheels from the 20+ mph falls. No head/face injuries.

[Binh Nam Vu]

On 8/20/2019 at 3:41 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

Most likely because riding without a helmet makes you ride more cautiously.

Some people also think the reverse is true, that riding with a helmet makes you take more risks. 

I definitely rode more like I was indestructible fully geared. With just a helmet I am still constantly surveilling my surroundings. Always make sure to leave good stopping distance, always slow near and around people to walking speeds, sometimes even slower, monitoring all intersections, making sure cars fully stop or notice me before crossing in front. I don't like feeling safe, because the moment you feel like nothing will go wrong is the moment you behave carelessly and that is what caused my two falls that I got injured on and the other two that I didn't, but one caused me to smash my phone into the ground.

 

Never ride like nothing will go wrong. Always be aware of your surrounding and ride for the present conditions. This is part of the driving test most drivers ignore it and follow way closer than they should and get into so many accidents because of it.

[Binh Nam Vu]

On 8/20/2019 at 8:42 PM, LanghamP said:

The perceived need to get somewhere fast is what kills vehicle drivers.

How often do shopping cart drivers kill each other? Not often compared to road users. Speed kills, and beyond a certain impact a helmet won't do much, but if your inpacts are expected to be lower than that, probably best to wear a helmet.

The helmet will save you from an impact from a fall or a car. It won't save you if your body is sliding into a car/wall/curb at whatever speed you're travelling. Do this simple experiment. Headbutt a wall as hard as you can with and without a helmet and tell me which you think will damage your brain more.

[Patton250]

3 hours ago, Binh Nam Vu said:

The helmet will save you from an impact from a fall or a car. It won't save you if your body is sliding into a car/wall/curb at whatever speed you're travelling. Do this simple experiment. Headbutt a wall as hard as you can with and without a helmet and tell me which you think will damage your brain more.

 You are right. It doesn’t take much of an impact at all to cause brain damage. I can’t believe he said that. As I said a few pages back this thread is weird.  Pride and testosterone can make men say very strange things. Lol

[LanghamP]

4 hours ago, Binh Nam Vu said:

The helmet will save you from an impact from a fall or a car. It won't save you if your body is sliding into a car/wall/curb at whatever speed you're travelling. Do this simple experiment. Headbutt a wall as hard as you can with and without a helmet and tell me which you think will damage your brain more.

Do you wear a helmet when driving a car? You should, because drivers in car crashes suffer greatly, as people in car crashes have more brain injuries than any other activity.

And it is not just because more people drive; we know that the rate of injury and death per million hours traveled is actually higher for drivers than it is for cyclists. So why don’t drivers have to wear helmets?

 I mean, if you and @Patton250 are suggesting everyone wear helmets, yet don't personally ever wear helmets while driving, that strikes me as "saying but not doing".

Be uniform in your behavior, and that means wearing a helmet (or not) when doing all dangerous behavior that's likely to kill or injure you.

 

 

[Patton250]

14 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Do you wear a helmet when driving a car? You should, because drivers in car crashes suffer greatly, as people in car crashes have more brain injuries than any other activity.

And it is not just because more people drive; we know that the rate of injury and death per million hours traveled is actually higher for drivers than it is for cyclists. So why don’t drivers have to wear helmets?

 I mean, if you and @Patton250 are suggesting everyone wear helmets, yet don't personally ever wear helmets while driving, that strikes me as "saying but not doing".

Be uniform in your behavior, and that means wearing a helmet (or not) when doing all dangerous behavior that's likely to kill or injure you.

 

 

 Man this thread keeps getting weirder 

Bro I  promise you I would never advocate passing laws to force you to wear a helmet. I don’t believe in government interference and just about anything. Trust me if you knew me I am on the extreme side of government staying out of our lives.  I would never stop you on the street and tell you you should wear a helmet. 

 Having said that I love myself and I love my son even more. We will wear helmets. IMHO I think it’s f&%^*^% r^$#^%$ to not wear a helmet while riding a wheel. :-)

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

Having said that I love myself and I love my son even more. We will wear helmets. IMHO I think it’s f&%^*^% r^$#^%$ to not wear a helmet while riding a wheel. :-)

Shouldn't you be consistent in wearing protective equipment in accordance to actual dangers? If you and your son wear a helmet in only some of equally dangerous situations, then there's an inconsistency in application.

If you're actually concerned with safety, then you'd wear a helmet in all situations where you are likely to incur head injuries. That means also wearing a helmet while being in a car.

Unless, of course, you choose not to. While lecturing others to wear a helmet. While not wearing a helmet when engaging in the activity most likely to result in a head injury.

Let me direct your attention to doublethink.

[Darrell Wesh]

18 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Shouldn't you be consistent in wearing protective equipment in accordance to actual dangers? If you and your son wear a helmet in only some of equally dangerous situations, then there's an inconsistency in application.

If you're actually concerned with safety, then you'd wear a helmet in all situations where you are likely to incur head injuries. That means also wearing a helmet while being in a car.

Unless, of course, you choose not to. While lecturing others to wear a helmet. While not wearing a helmet when engaging in the activity most likely to result in a head injury.

Let me direct your attention to doublethink.

I agree with @LanghamP

And this is the number 1 reason why I don’t wear helmets. Inconsistency. If I wear it one time and then don’t wear it another time and actually fall and get a concussion I would kill myself for being that dumb to not bring it. 

With the uncertainty of the wheel just dying randomly, even at a 1% chance, I don’t want to wear a helmet for grocery store runs 2minutes away. 

And if you choose a helmet because of your perceived risk of the ride you’re going on then I guess it would apply that a helmet makes you a more risky rider. 

I don’t want to think the Gods have cursed me to be the one to hit my head the one time I don’t bring my helmet(which is the time luck usually runs out).

So, I choose not to wear a helmet because I can’t maintain that 100% consistency on a machine that could cut out on me at any time. 

On the other hand I wear protective body armor, knee pads and gloves 100% of the time with consistency. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[Binh Nam Vu]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

Do you wear a helmet when driving a car? You should, because drivers in car crashes suffer greatly, as people in car crashes have more brain injuries than any other activity.

And it is not just because more people drive; we know that the rate of injury and death per million hours traveled is actually higher for drivers than it is for cyclists. So why don’t drivers have to wear helmets?

 I mean, if you and @Patton250 are suggesting everyone wear helmets, yet don't personally ever wear helmets while driving, that strikes me as "saying but not doing".

Be uniform in your behavior, and that means wearing a helmet (or not) when doing all dangerous behavior that's likely to kill or injure you.

 

 

I don't think you understood why I wear a helmet. I clearly stated that I started wearing a helmet because of all the shit people gave me and one cop threatening to ticket me...and I don't understand your argument. You would be safer wearing a light helmet while driving. I never said you wouldn't, but it's not required, nor do people give you shit for not wearing one, so I don't. I often give people that argument when they say I should wear a helmet. I tell them you could trip and hit your head walking, so why don't you wear a helmet all the time? They just go speechless, probably thinking, ok dumbass, have fun smashing your brains out.

[Patton250]

2 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Shouldn't you be consistent in wearing protective equipment in accordance to actual dangers? If you and your son wear a helmet in only some of equally dangerous situations, then there's an inconsistency in application.

If you're actually concerned with safety, then you'd wear a helmet in all situations where you are likely to incur head injuries. That means also wearing a helmet while being in a car.

Unless, of course, you choose not to. While lecturing others to wear a helmet. While not wearing a helmet when engaging in the activity most likely to result in a head injury.

Let me direct your attention to doublethink.

 I want to say this in the nicest possible way that I can. But that statement has to be one of the most irresponsible things I’ve ever read on a forum.  I would expect such a statement from a teenager. Actually a younger teenager say 13 or 14 years old.   I have to wonder if you actually believe what you just wrote or you’re trying to solicit a reaction like mine.  Then again if you are a 13-year-old I offer my most sincere apologies for what I just wrote. :-)

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Patton250

[Patton250]

35 minutes ago, Binh Nam Vu said:

I don't think you understood why I wear a helmet. I clearly stated that I started wearing a helmet because of all the shit people gave me and one cop threatening to ticket me...and I don't understand your argument. You would be safer wearing a light helmet while driving. I never said you wouldn't, but it's not required, nor do people give you shit for not wearing one, so I don't. I often give people that argument when they say I should wear a helmet. I tell them you could trip and hit your head walking, so why don't you wear a helmet all the time? They just go speechless, probably thinking, ok dumbass, have fun smashing your brains out.

Lol.  My friend that’s precisely what they’re thinking. 

[Binh Nam Vu]

For all the people that gave the stats on helmets being more dangerous, were they wearing the helmets properly? Were they wearing decent helmets, or the cheapest Chinese crap they could get a hold of? I have a feeling most the people in the studies were wearing cheap crap. Also, if not worn properly, the helmet can slide off the head and the strap can pull on your neck to break it.

 

Now, who's going to do a study to find out if good quality helmets are better at keeping you from dying? Also, how do they calculate the distance traveled and riding style/habits? You can't simply say helmet vs no helmet. It's like phone case vs no phone case. There are different cases. Some cases can do more harm than good. People are probably more clumsy with the case on. There are a lot of factors to take into account. How did they do their studies?

Edited September 1, 2019 by Binh Nam Vu

[seage]

I wonder if its just legalization. Like, we want to be seen as "Responsible riders" or whatever in the eyes of the gov, so they dont make laws to destroy us. Since we're not inside a roll cage, and are kinda between a bike (optional helmet everywhere) and a motorcycle (helmet mandatory in many places) it looks better if we're being safe, and could lead to favorable laws. When someone sees a dude in flipflops and shorts on the ground, scrapped up, they're gonna think "What a fking idiot" in most cases, tbh. Some ppl will be empathetic, but most who dont get what we do will probably default to that. Now, if @Darrell Wesh was down, even without a helmet, i think people would be more forgiving. Especially if he had no visible head injury, because hes still geared to the 9's. Actually, more geared than me, as i dont have body armor or an MC jacket yet. But someone with quite literally nothing, they'd just assume you're playing with fate and fate punched down. The opinions of people usually doesnt matter to me, but right now, while we're still in a bit of a legal gray area, its a bit more important. But theres a flip side to this. That us being geared up makes it look more dangerous, and that people will think that its safer if we're dressed casual, but thats a whole other thing, lol. 

I think the other area is just a general care for your fellow human being. If someone wants to see others being safe and okay in incidents doing the thing they love, it makes sense to respond in anger towards that person for not doing their all (in that persons opinion) to protect themselves. I saw it a lot in Tishawn's videos. Where people would be yelling at him to wear a helmet. Although with him, hes one of those people i've always just thought "Nah...hes got this". Whatever he chooses to do, its on him. He seems competent enough.

I've found for myself these days to be kinda passive. I figure everyone knows what they're doing to some degree, just dont hit me/get in my way while im riding and we're good. When i ride to the shops, im wearing wrist guards, gloves for abrasion and sometimes a bike helmet because im going mad slow. Not walking my 2 dogs slow, because...i mean, id rather walk. But slow enough that i can jog out an unplanned dismount. When im going any substantial distance where fatigue or unknown road conditions or anythhhing else can become a thing, then im geared up fully. If you want to not wear any gear, and we start going fast (in a group setting), thats on you to judge if you want to try to keep up or if you'll stick with your safer speed for how you're dressed.

I've had one fall off a bike as a kid where my helmet saved my head. Would have shattered my shit if i didnt have that bucket on. So as an adult ive always tried to know the ins and outs of what im doing and the risks attached. Hence why my first like 300 posts on this forum were of me questioning everything and being suuppppppppppppper cautious the entire time. Now if you were to see me ride, you'd think i didnt have a care in the world. 

[Elliott Reitz]

I wore my helmet today so I wouldn't loose my hat.

So my helmet tried to strangle me with my hat. 

My wrists were protected so my fingers got cold.

Maybe I'm not ever getting old!

[Elliott Reitz]

FWIW, today I rode with traffic past the NY state fair.   I had a guitar backpacked... Bicycle helmet and wristguards.  Several St troopers smiled asked what is that, while I rode a bicycle ish mix of in car lane and burm to pass the traffic.   It was all love!   My fastest there was 31 mph.    Afterwords I noticed that was with 80 amps .   Hmmm no beeps but I wonder about battery current limits.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Elliott Reitz
I max

[LanghamP]

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 I want to say this in the nicest possible way that I can. But that statement has to be one of the most irresponsible things I’ve ever read on a forum.  I would expect such a statement from a teenager. Actually a younger teenager say 13 or 14 years old.   I have to wonder if you actually believe what you just wrote or you’re trying to solicit a reaction like mine.  Then again if you are a 13-year-old I offer my most sincere apologies for what I just wrote. :-)

This entire statement by you doesn't advance human knowledge in any way. It's worthless.

If you say something is irresponsible yet make no mention why, then it's a statement with no thought put into it.

If you say these statements sound like those written by an child, yet don't pull out a single fallacy from it, then its a statement meant to insult.

You could just say, "you're stupid because I disagree with you, and I'm not inclined to say why."

Unfortunately, seeing you argue is like seeing a dog on its hind legs praying, the wonder of it all is not that it can pray well, but that it can pray at all. Although, that's probably much too generous.