Why the NEED to Lecture Gearless stranger on an EUC?

[LucasD]

25 minutes ago, Demargon said:

The wrist guard makes you confiden using the hands in a unexpected fall, but may cause worsen injuries in the rest of the arm due the bad use of them stopping your fall i.e. extending them to the ground when you hit it.

My must to have is a minimum fall braking knowledge and a good body condition, stretching and warm up always help for avoid falls or injuries

That is why we need flex master, that minimise damage to hand. And during fall you need to  add rotational movement.

Regardless in a fall it is better to stop with broken hands, than simply faceplant. In such case without full face helmet I guess you would at high damage...

[atdlzpae]

And with full face helmet you would risk breaking your neck.

[Darrell Wesh]

38 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

But you can wear headphones without any decrease in awareness

False. 

You probably think you can text and drive without any decrease in driving ability too huh?

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, atdlzpae said:

I've faceplanted several times and my helmet never got a scratch. The hierarchy for me is:

1. Wrist guards
2. Knee pads
3. Helmet
4. Elbow pads

And so, I only wear wrist protection when grocery shopping. Everything else only if I'm going far/fast/pushing limits.

 My friend if you can go 20 mph and have your wheel cut out on you and not have your face hit the pavement I’ll give you $1000. :-)

[Patton250]

7 hours ago, Hatchet said:

I'm one who never rides without 7 the piece gear loadout, and I think people are nuts to ride w/o a helmet. However, i'd think that, not say it to a stranger. 

Also, it's never my obligation to listen to a stranger about anything, a big fat NOPE to that.

 

Me too.  I look like I could be on a football team. However I would never be is so pretentious to tell another person, a perfect stranger to put a helmet on. 

 

[Darrell Wesh]

Just now, Patton250 said:

 My friend if you can go 20 mph and have your wheel cut out on you and not have your face hit the pavement I’ll give you $1000. :-)

The natural tendency while falling forward is to turn your head and shoulder to absorb the brunt of the force there and not damage your head. 

Its only with these sedentary lifestyles have basic, average primal instincts been dulled to the point of having a nervous system with no reaction and just freefalling into a faceplant. 

[Patton250]

7 hours ago, gr8ps said:

I'm in agreement with LanghamP. If one can fill out a form and waive society's duty to care for you and just let you die if you ever take a bad spill and end up in a coma/life threatening position, then okay. Reality is if this ever happens he will use up societal resources caring for a preventable injury. Insured or not, they won't just let him die on the streets. Costs will be incurred and if not insured, born by society in the form of raised medical costs for everyone else. Even if he is insured, he may not have the resources to fully discharge his debt, with medical bills being the single largest source of bankruptcies even among the insured. 

That said - I don't care about strangers enough to lecture them about wearing helmets. At least we can get some good organs out of them. 

Ah yes. I know your type.  You’re the guy that looks at obese people with disgust because in your opinion they’re living unhealthy and somehow you’ll have to pay for it one day. 

[Patton250]

Just now, Darrell Wesh said:

The natural tendency while falling forward is to turn your head and shoulder to absorb the brunt of the force there and not damage your head. 

Its only with these sedentary lifestyles have basic, average primal instincts been dulled to the point of having a nervous system with no reaction and just freefalling into a faceplant. 

 I should’ve said head. Not just the face. If you fall at that speed your shoulder will hit first and then your head. Show me a running back that gets tackled and their head does not hit the grass as well. Come on man let’s not argue about semantics here. 

[Darrell Wesh]

8 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 I should’ve said head. Not just the face. If you fall at that speed your shoulder will hit first and then your head. Show me a running back that gets tackled and their head does not hit the grass as well. Come on man let’s not argue about semantics here. 

An average football helmet extends inches out from the face. It’s almost impossible to keep it from making contact with the ground in a fall. Look at rugby, you don’t see these guys getting tackled and jamming their heads into the ground every play do you? Why? Because without a helmet on their heads hover inches away from the ground; enough clearance to never hit it. But put a bubble that extends out a couple inches and you WILL contact the ground. 

[Patton250]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

An average football helmet extends inches out from the face. It’s almost impossible to keep it from making contact with the ground in a fall. Look at rugby, you don’t see these guys getting tackled and jamming their heads into the ground every play do you? Why? Because without a helmet on their heads hover inches away from the ground; enough clearance to never hit it. But put a bubble that extends out a couple inches and you WILL contact the ground. 

 OK then here’s the challenge. We rig system where I can cut out your wheel at the push of a button. You get up to 20 or 25 MPH and know within 100 feet or so I’m going to shut the wheel off. You will obviously wipe out and we will film it so we can play back in slow motion. If your head does not touch the pavement during the wipeout  I’ll give you $1000. But if it does you give me $1000. Are you on? :-) 

 

edit-  listen man you’re a young healthy athletic guy. Most are not. So if anyone has a chance of pulling this off it’s you. :-) 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Patton250

[atdlzpae]

11 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

You probably think you can text and drive without any decrease in driving ability too huh?

No, I don't. There is a huge difference between loosing the ability completely (taking eyes off the road) and adding a voice to the mix.

I am able to hear a car from a good 100m behind me at night.

 

13 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 My friend if you can go 20 mph and have your wheel cut out on you and not have your face hit the pavement I’ll give you $1000. :-)

My recent cutoff was at 28km/h. It's the vertical velocity that matters if your head hits or not. There are a lot of motorcycle accidents at 100km/h where the head never hits the pavement.
I'd be willing to repeat that experiment for a $1000 at 33km/h (with a lot of body armor of course). Are you willing to commit?

[Gasmantle]

1 hour ago, atdlzpae said:

But you can wear headphones without any decrease in awareness.

The minute you wear headphones you reduce awarness whether you are playing loud music or not.

[Patton250]

5 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

No, I don't. There is a huge difference between loosing the ability completely (taking eyes off the road) and adding a voice to the mix.

I am able to hear a car from a good 100m behind me at night.

 

My recent cutoff was at 28km/h. It's the vertical velocity that matters if your head hits or not. There are a lot of motorcycle accidents at 100km/h where the head never hits the pavement.
I'd be willing to repeat that experiment for a $1000 at 33km/h (with a lot of body armor of course). Are you willing to commit?

 I wouldn’t do it unless you wore full body armor and a motorcycle helmet.  Just a few months ago in my neighborhood a guy on a motorcycle died while going 14 mph when a car hit him.  He was not wearing a helmet.  Your collarbone can heal. Your wrist can heal. Your shoulder and rib cage can heal. The brain not so much. 

 If you were willing to risk it I would take the challenge. Here’s the deal. If you can go 25 mph, wipe out and not hit your head on the pavement it’s more luck in that particular crash and how it happened and not prevention or talent on your part. So you would be taking a chance of losing either way. :-)

 I guess we are kind of getting away from the point of the thread and that is should we tell perfect strangers they should be wearing a helmet. In my opinion hell no.  In my opinion you should wear a helmet on a bicycle, motorcycle, skateboard or any PEV especially a EUC.  But it’s not any of my business what other people do.  I do understand a child asking an adult. They don’t know any better. 

[atdlzpae]

16 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

The minute you wear headphones you reduce awarness whether you are playing loud music or not.

Technically if you're hungry you reduce your awareness. Ok, you win.

13 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 If you were willing to risk it I would take the challenge. Here’s the deal. If you can go 25 mph, wipe out and not hit your head on the pavement it’s more luck in that particular crash and how it happened and not prevention or talent on your part. So you would be taking a chance of losing either way. :-)

Now we agree. You never know when you're unlucky and it will save your life.

13 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I guess we are kind of getting away from the point of the thread and that is should we tell perfect strangers they should be wearing a helmet.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. I believe in personal liberty to be a danger to myself.

I was riding near a skate park recently. Out of 30 or so people not one had a helmet.  Personally, I'd not go to a skate park without full set of protection.

Edited August 11, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Darrell Wesh]

9 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 I wouldn’t do it unless you wore full body armor and a motorcycle helmet.  Just a few months ago in my neighborhood a guy on a motorcycle died while going 14 mph when a car hit him.  He was not wearing a helmet.  Your collarbone can heal. Your wrist can heal. Your shoulder and rib cage can heal. The brain not so much. 

 If you were willing to risk it I would take the challenge. Here’s the deal. If you can go 25 mph, wipe out and not hit your head on the pavement it’s more luck in that particular crash and how it happened and not prevention or talent on your part. So you would be taking a chance of losing either way. :-)

 I guess we are kind of getting away from the point of the thread and that is should we tell perfect strangers they should be wearing a helmet. In my opinion hell no.  In my opinion you should wear a helmet on a bicycle, motorcycle, skateboard or any PEV especially a EUC.  But it’s not any of my business what other people do.  I do understand a child asking an adult. They don’t know any better. 

You already owe this guy $1000

He had an infamous 40 mph cutout on the Gotway MSX 84v 

This is a still of how you would land after such a crash. 

He did slightly scratch up the side of the chin guard area but it protrudes out so damn much it wasn’t likely he would have ever abraded his actual chin.

 

[atdlzpae]

Yep. Low vertical velocity + muscles fights to keep the head from hitting the ground.

The body is not a ragdoll.

################################

Edit: I just watched the video and no, it's not a good example. His chin guard was scratched pretty badly.

Edited August 11, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Patton250]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

You already owe this guy $1000

He had an infamous 40 mph cutout on the Gotway MSX 84v 

This is a still of how you would land after such a crash. 

He did slightly scratch up the side of the chin guard area but it protrudes out so damn much it wasn’t likely he would have ever abraded his actual chin.

 

Um.......ah............um..........the chin is part of the head. 

[Patton250]

Just now, atdlzpae said:

Yep. Low vertical velocity + the body fights to keep the head from hitting the ground.

The body is not a ragdoll.

 Actually the body is a ragdoll at that speed.  Velocity, force, confusion, instant,  unpredictable conclusion = ????? I don’t want to find out .  That’s the reason we have coma units at hospitals. 

 I think I’m pretty much done with this thread. I can’t believe we’re actually arguing over this. Perhaps Darwin was right. :-) 

[atdlzpae]

The funny thing is that we're arguing over nothing. We both wear protection when we do anything risky.

And we agree that we shouldn't lecture people.

[Patton250]

5 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

The funny thing is that we're arguing over nothing. We both wear protection when we do anything risky.

And we agree that we shouldn't lecture people.

Amen to that my friend. :-)

[Darrell Wesh]

22 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Um.......ah............um..........the chin is part of the head. 

As I already explained, and judging from his fall mechanics and hit points, I guarantee he wouldn’t have hit his head if he weren’t wearing a helmet. 5lbs weighing your head down not to mention extending inches out is kind of hard to prevent from scraping the floor 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[Darrell Wesh]

When the legs go up the head goes down. 

That is a faceplant 

[Patton250]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

When the legs go up the head goes down. 

That is a faceplant 

 Look Darrell I completely agree that there are certain people under certain circumstances that can crash at a high speed and possibly avoid smashing their head on the pavement. However that is definitely the exception and not the rule. You’re grasping for straws here. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Patton250

[Demargon]

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

How to train falling without damaging myself

Look for a gim with judo or acrobatic school. Otherwise you can learn the basics with books or videos and one soft surface were practice (without the euc), but the school are much more effective. The falls on foot or on the euc aren't too different

[Darrell Wesh]

Just now, Demargon said:

Look for a gim with judo or acrobatic school. Otherwise you can learn the basics with books or videos and one soft surface were practice (without the euc), but the school are much more effective. The falls on foot or on the euc aren't too different

He’d spend his time better by training his reaction time and doing core work.