126-Volt Nikola

[Old Glider]

3 hours ago, Asphalt said:

 

I wonder if bindings are going to start becoming a thing for speed demons?

Guaranteed someone is working on this

[ir_fuel]

4 hours ago, Asphalt said:

@Darrell Wesh Looks like you’re right about wind resistance being a minor factor. This article suggest you only need a 9.8-degree forward lean to compensate for 90kph wind.

So basically the limiting factor is fear of getting bounced off the wheel at high speed.

I wonder if bindings are going to start becoming a thing for speed demons?

There is the "falling over" aspect, but there also is simply the fact that the wheel will have to work a lot harder to push through that wind resistance. You can't simply state that double the voltage = double the speed because the wheel can spin twice as fast.

4 hours ago, wheelr said:

This got me wondering, what is the 0-60mph equivalent for EUCs?  

A faceplant.

[ir_fuel]

4 hours ago, Asphalt said:

I wonder if bindings are going to start becoming a thing for speed demons?

If you really want to kill yourself ...

A 30kg weight strapped to your feet at 60km/h. What could possibly go wrong ...

[Rywokast]

5 hours ago, Meelosh123 said:

It's one thing to simply be able to go 30, 40, 50+ mph.  It's another thing to go 30, 40, 50+ mph comfortably and safely, over cracks and bumps and other lousy surfaces, while being able to come to a come to a stop as fast as possible.

I truly believe that the current tech it's at its peak with it being 100% down to the riders movement to control braking and absorb shocks etc.. even the 100V probably no one is actually using full speed but merely for a test in a video.. there's a point where it just becomes totally impractical with wind resistance, stopping time, lack of any suspension.. unless they plan on adding suspension and strapping your feet in, and disk brakes that come on automatically or something as well as a more powerful motor then we are already beyond any reasonable speed limit with 70.. but I can't imagine how crazy the wind resistance would be at 90 lmao half of your battery would be drained from just that

Edited August 4, 2019 by Rywokast

[Ben Kim]

53 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

I truly believe that the current tech it's at its peak with it being 100% down to the riders movement to control braking and absorb shocks etc.. even the 100V probably no one is actually using full speed but merely for a test in a video.. there's a point where it just becomes totally impractical with wind resistance, stopping time, lack of any suspension.. unless they plan on adding suspension and strapping your feet in, and disk brakes that come on automatically or something as well as a more powerful motor then we are already beyond any reasonable speed limit with 70.. but I can't imagine how crazy the wind resistance would be at 90 lmao half of your battery would be drained from just that

Thing with Gotway wheels are, top speed is not a feature it’s a suggestion, and we tend to like the buffer to cruise at 30-35 MPH, not actually ride at 40+ for sustained periods. 

A 126V wheel would bump the usable cruise speed a nickel to the 35-40 range, not that it’s suggested or safe to do so. 

For reference, I consider all 31 MPH kingsong wheels 25 MPH cruising wheels. (need a 5 MPH buffer to sustain a given speed, plus kingsong wheels speed reporting tends to report 10% too fast). 

[Rywokast]

12 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

Thing with Gotway wheels are, top speed is not a feature it’s a suggestion, and we tend to like the buffer to cruise at 30-35 MPH, not actually ride at 40+ for sustained periods. 

A 126V wheel would bump the usable cruise speed a nickel to the 35-40 range, not that it’s suggested or safe to do so. 

For reference, I consider all 31 MPH kingsong wheels 25 MPH cruising wheels. (need a 5 MPH buffer to sustain a given speed, plus kingsong wheels speed reporting tends to report 10% too fast). 

i understand this, but what im saying is even with the 100V models, 99% of the time people are riding them with a huge buffer already.. i very much doubt most people are coming close to the top speeds on a regular basis.. idk why you consider 31 mph KS wheels as 25 MPH cruising wheels? KS is cautious in that regard and whatever the top speed thats listed is a safe cruising speed.. 25 mph is only slightly higher than the cruising speed i constantly do on my ks16s, as i have for two years i always ride the beeper on ks and inmotion wheels.. gotway i set a safe buffer for myself and just keep it in mind.. i know its always better to have speed and not need it of course, but there comes a point where its redundant, and i think 100V is that threshold where we need to look at other possible benefits to a >100V system as speed is no longer a deciding factor.. but with that you also get other risks associated with it, as well as diminishing returns where price is concerned.. 100V models are already quite a bit more pricey than 84V.. imagine what 126V would be?? you would need some massive benefits that do not include the unreasonably high speed limit to justify that purchase if you ask me

[Ben Kim]

4 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

i understand this, but what im saying is even with the 100V models, 99% of the time people are riding them with a huge buffer already.. i very much doubt most people are coming close to the top speeds on a regular basis.. idk why you consider 31 mph KS wheels as 25 MPH cruising wheels? KS is cautious in that regard and whatever the top speed thats listed is a safe cruising speed.. 25 mph is only slightly higher than the cruising speed i constantly do on my ks16s, as i have for two years i always ride the beeper on ks and inmotion wheels.. gotway i set a safe buffer for myself and just keep it in mind.. i know its always better to have speed and not need it of course, but there comes a point where its redundant, and i think 100V is that threshold where we need to look at other possible benefits to a >100V system as speed is no longer a deciding factor.. but with that you also get other risks associated with it, as well as diminishing returns where price is concerned.. 100V models are already quite a bit more pricey than 84V.. imagine what 126V would be?? you would need some massive benefits that do not include the unreasonably high speed limit to justify that purchase if you ask me

re: KS wheels, 31 reported by the wheel is actually closer to 28 on GPS (more representative of actual speed), which is why I'm calling them 25 MPH cruising wheels.  Gotway wheels appear to be closer to GPS. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Ben Kim

[ir_fuel]

3 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

re: KS wheels, 31 reported by the wheel is actually closer to 28 on GPS (more representative of actual speed), which is why I'm calling them 25 MPH cruising wheels.  Gotway wheels appear to be closer to GPS. 

Should check with my KS16X, but my Z10 has the 40km/h alert when my GPS watch shows 37.7km/h 

[Rywokast]

5 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

re: KS wheels, 31 reported by the wheel is actually closer to 28 on GPS (more representative of actual speed), which is why I'm calling them 25 MPH cruising wheels.  Gotway wheels appear to be closer to GPS. 

aah okay i was assuming reported speed on app.. perhaps thats why gotway wheels seem more powerful is kingsong is just inflating itself haha

[UniVehje]

7 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

re: KS wheels, 31 reported by the wheel is actually closer to 28 on GPS (more representative of actual speed), which is why I'm calling them 25 MPH cruising wheels.  Gotway wheels appear to be closer to GPS. 

They said they are changing the distance their app is showing to closer to gps because users want that. But it reports from wheel rotations and should be more accurate than gps, if the calculation is done right. I’ve not seen the speed being massively wrong but haven’t done exact testing yet. Distance will always be shorter on gps since it measures straight line when you are slaloming.

Anyway, no reason to leave safety margins on Kingsongs, they already have it. They could go much faster, the limit is not based on the wheel power but on their idea of safety. 

I agree with @Rywokast on diminishing returns. At some point more speed doesn’t bring any more enjoyment if one is not using those extra mph. Not that more top speed is a negative thing as long as there are no costs to it. But usually there are costs, price or feature. For those who don’t utilize the extra mph the cost is waisted. So if there are no other benefits than top speed from 126v system, it’s not interesting to most riders. 
 

 

[photorph]

Is it me or just gotway love to come out with better wheels way too fast, this kind of screws over everyone who is still waiting deliver for their previous and now outdated wheel.  Like Nikola 84v to 100v, and now a 126v...

[UniVehje]

7 minutes ago, photorph said:

Is it me or just gotway love to come out with better wheels way too fast, this kind of screws over everyone who is still waiting deliver for their previous and now outdated wheel.  Like Nikola 84v to 100v, and now a 126v...

From marketing point of view, yes. I can tell Gotway doesn’t have a marketing department. 
Fun from forum speculation point of view, though. 

[Rywokast]

1 minute ago, photorph said:

Is it me or just gotway love to come out with better wheels way too fast, this kind of screws over everyone who is still waiting deliver for their previous and now outdated wheel.  Like Nikola 84v to 100v, and now a 126v...

haha that is their standard practice.. for me i bought the 2100 wh 84V when the 100V was already out obv, i dont want the 100V nor the 126V the 84 is more than enough for me and the extra added cost would be for nothing.. plus with the 100V you get less battery even though youre paying more.. i dont know what the price of the 126 is going to be but i suspect quite a bit more than the price increase from 84 to 100, but at least you should be able to get the same battery capacity as 84.. these are mostly specialty wheels and although 100V is becoming a bit more popular now 84V is still the standard and will retain more of its value if you ask me, so theyre not really getting screwed i mean people have been riding nikolas for what five months now, in the world of EUC's thats not a ridiculously short period

[Kens]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

 

 

If you guys look closely there is actually a dip in the fun axis when reaching the end of top speed. This is actually the rational part of human brain telling the other side that "are you seriously doing this right now bruh? If we fall at this speed we are screwed" kinda talk 

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, photorph said:

Is it me or just gotway love to come out with better wheels way too fast, this kind of screws over everyone who is still waiting deliver for their previous and now outdated wheel.  Like Nikola 84v to 100v, and now a 126v...

Don't read too much into all this voltage stuff. I would agree if they would release a new model every 3 months, but going from 84 to 100V isn't that much of a game changer. I don't think anyone here would sell their 84V wheel and get a 100V one.

[Asphalt]

14 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

If you really want to kill yourself ...

A 30kg weight strapped to your feet at 60km/h. What could possibly go wrong ...

Franky Zapata seems to be fine going 170kph with his flyboard strapped to his feet and he doesn’t even have the ground to help stabilize him. 

[Chriull]

On 8/3/2019 at 8:33 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

If we assume the 100V Nikola can do 65kph/40mph, that means an 80kph/50mph 126V Nikola

Why are they even doing this? Who wants to ride that fast? I wonder what other reasons than speed made them do this.

Interesting!

 

Getting the voltage up gives one proportional higher top speed with the same motor, as @esaj wrote.

But driving at the same speed with the same burden will "burn" the same power as this motor driven with 100V or 84V (if they still can take this "operating point"). The 126 just increases the area of torque over speed == usable "operation points". As at low speeds all 3 version are strong enough to melt and unsolder their wires going to the motor this "increase" won't change to much. Just at higher speed one has more reserve power.

As the wheels are already quite fast and powerfull one could go the other way and take a different motor to reach with the 126V setup the same max speed as with the 84V version.

This would lead to 84/126 = 66% current needed for the same torque output. Leading to 0.66*0.66=0.44% power dissipation for the mosfets/wires and connectors.

... one would then just have 30 cells in series instead of 20... I don't know if i'd really like that - could increase the chance to get bad/aged cells ... At least some kind of cell voltage surveillance should be implemented by then...

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, photorph said:

Is it me or just gotway love to come out with better wheels way too fast, this kind of screws over everyone who is still waiting deliver for their previous and now outdated wheel.  Like Nikola 84v to 100v, and now a 126v...

Yes. This is a common complaint. However, given a choice I think I'd prefer a rapid release schedule like Gotway's to KingSong's near non-existent schedule.

It's kind of like complaining that there are too many choices for toothpaste - makes it so difficult to choose. Yes, a valid complaint sometimes. But from a wider perspective, it's a great problem to have 

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Don't read too much into all this voltage stuff. I would agree if they would release a new model every 3 months, but going from 84 to 100V isn't that much of a game changer. I don't think anyone here would sell their 84V wheel and get a 100V one.

I've been tempted though. The 100-volt Plus is so much nicer than the 84-volt version.

[Old Glider]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I've been tempted though. The 100-volt Plus is so much nicer than the 84-volt version.

Ok, I’ll bite.

Other than improved look of the Nikola plus model, and the bigger battery, how is it ‘so much’ nicer!

I think I’ve watched all your videos.

[Marty Backe]

52 minutes ago, Old Glider said:

Ok, I’ll bite.

Other than improved look of the Nikola plus model, and the bigger battery, how is it ‘so much’ nicer!

I think I’ve watched all your videos.

Hopefully the upcoming weekend I'll finally be able to test them side-by-side to determine any quantitative differences (torque, etc.). For me it's the bigger battery. I can ride the Plus hard and still get absolutely amazing range. That's why it's so much nicer for me.

[ir_fuel]

10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

For me it's the bigger battery. I can ride the Plus hard and still get absolutely amazing range. That's why it's so much nicer for me.

But that's not linked to the voltage.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

But that's not linked to the voltage.

I don't think I ever said it was. I said that I prefer the Nikola Plus. Just so happens that the Plus is a 100-volt wheel.

When I get the 126-volt Nikola, assuming that it's 1600wh, I'll finally be able to do a apples-to-apples comparison between the 84v and 126v versions of the same wheel. Maybe we'll discover that the higher voltage wheels actually get better gas mileage.

Finally, I do plan on some direct comparison between the 100v and 84v Nikola's to see if I can tell a difference in torque, acceleration, etc. Then I might be able to say 100-volts is better in every aspect (except cost)

[Rywokast]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I've been tempted though. The 100-volt Plus is so much nicer than the 84-volt version.

fyi the regular plus version aka 84V 2100 wh is the plus edition shell not the black and white of the regular 84V

[Marty Backe]

27 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

fyi the regular plus version aka 84V 2100 wh is the plus edition shell not the black and white of the regular 84V

I'm fully aware of this.

I don't know of anyone who actually owns this wheel yet.