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DrakeParagon

Nikola alarms and temperatures newbie question

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Hi guys,

Today was my 3rd day of riding my 84v Nikola with the original board with the small MOSFETs.

At first it seemed that every time accelerated fast the pedals would slowly tilt backwards,  but there were no alarms.  The pedals would return to normal as soon as I slowed down.  I wasn't sure if that was normal?

30 minutes later I started getting a 3 beep alarm whenever I tried to accelerate fast.   I read that 3 beeps means over voltage, but I never noticed the voltage reading above 81.  I'll look closer next time.   Has anyone else had this happen?  Any ideas?

During the ride the Gotway app showed up to 36.9º C and the Darknessbot app showed up to 102º F.  Is that overheating?  

What are the normal temperature ranges for a Gotway Nikola?

I covered almost all of the Nikola with neoprene to protect it from me falling off.  But I'm now wondering if the neoprene might be insulating it and causing higher temperatures, and if I should remove it.

I'm wondering if I should stop riding it until I can get a new updated board with the bigger MOSFETs..

Any advice or recommendations much appreciated!

 

 

 

 

Nikola

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The tiltback you get just sounds like the tiltback. It is set at a certain speed. Just change the speed or disable it altogether.

3 beeps is the 35kph alarm (also called 2nd alarm) or it is a different alarm that gets aborted (like 5 beeps at the top speed, but that is north of 50kph). Are the beeps maybe due to low battery? Low battery beeps are slower beeps in comparison to the speed alarm beeps.

Here is a rough overview of the Gotway beeps if it isn't too confusing.

But all you really need to know is 2 beeps ("1st alarm" 30kph, can be disabled), 3 beeps ("2nd alarm" 35kph), 5/continuous beeps ("3rd alarm" or "80% alarm", cannot be disabled, never ignore) and the slower low battery beeps. Everything else is unusual and cause for 🤔

~35°C is laughably low. Gotways used to "overheat" at 79°C and the Nikola apparently lowered that to 65°C. 50°C is a standard displayed temperature for wheels during normal riding. The Neoprene most likely doesn't make a difference. No concerns here, if it weren't for...

46 minutes ago, DrakeParagon said:

Today was my 3rd day of riding my 84v Nikola with the original board with the small MOSFETs.

46 minutes ago, DrakeParagon said:

I'm wondering if I should stop riding it until I can get a new updated board with the bigger MOSFETs..

Unless you know your old board is glue-free, you definitely shouldn't ride it! Some people had it die suddenly without any unusual stress.

-

By the way, I was wondering why your picture didn't display, but it is named wrongly. Here's the picture. Harbor!

Nikola.jpg.b46428f511930e0258f8aa292081776c.jpg

When checking I couldn't help but see that it has coordinates.  Stornoway, Outer Hebrides, Scotland, is that correct? Cool!:wub: Don't forget to take some riding pictures where we can see the landscape;)

 

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6 hours ago, DrakeParagon said:

Hi guys,

Today was my 3rd day of riding my 84v Nikola with the original board with the small MOSFETs.

At first it seemed that every time accelerated fast the pedals would slowly tilt backwards,  but there were no alarms.  The pedals would return to normal as soon as I slowed down.  I wasn't sure if that was normal?

30 minutes later I started getting a 3 beep alarm whenever I tried to accelerate fast.   I read that 3 beeps means over voltage, but I never noticed the voltage reading above 81.  I'll look closer next time.   Has anyone else had this happen?  Any ideas?

During the ride the Gotway app showed up to 36.9º C and the Darknessbot app showed up to 102º F.  Is that overheating?  

What are the normal temperature ranges for a Gotway Nikola?

I covered almost all of the Nikola with neoprene to protect it from me falling off.  But I'm now wondering if the neoprene might be insulating it and causing higher temperatures, and if I should remove it.

I'm wondering if I should stop riding it until I can get a new updated board with the bigger MOSFETs..

Any advice or recommendations much appreciated!

IMHO a red flag here is that you are still on the old TO 220 MOSFET 84V Nikola board, which they've since replaced with bigger TO 247 MOSFET boards due to the glueing issues. Is there a reason you haven't pushed your dealer to get you the board with the bigger MOSFETs?

In terms of the rocking of the pedals you're experiencing at lower speeds, I've heard the same phenomenon I believe with MSX riders here in NYC that get overheating due to the bad cooling physics of that wheel: when hot, the pedals will rock and swing unnaturally, until they slow down and let the wheel run so hot.

In general, even though I am very very satisfied with my 100V Nikola Plus, I am still suspicious of whether it will cool properly in high heat scenarios, hence why I am exploring doing the @Phil McLaughlin thermal paste-mica insulator chip installation for the board MOSFET cooling, for better heat transmission to the heatsink.

Edited by houseofjob

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3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The tiltback you get just sounds like the tiltback. It is set at a certain speed. Just change the speed or disable it altogether.

Thanks meepmeepmayer,

How do you disable the tiltback speed?  In the Gotway app I can set "tilt up foot step speed" to anywhere between 15km/hr and 24 km/hr, but there doesn't seem to be an option to set it to a higher speed or to disable it.

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Are the beeps maybe due to low battery? Low battery beeps are slower beeps in comparison to the speed alarm beeps.  Unless you know your old board is glue-free, you definitely shouldn't ride it! Some people had it die suddenly without any unusual stress.

I was riding with a 90% charged battery and got the tiltback right away.  The new replacement board was shipped direct from China.  I hope it arrives this week!

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Here is a rough overview of the Gotway beeps if it isn't too confusing.

Thanks!  From that list of beeps I think it might be this one: 

> over voltage, 3 short beep 2 second, tilt back when riding downhill <

But on the Nikola I was also getting tilt back whenever I accelerated.

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Stornoway, Outer Hebrides, Scotland, is that correct? Cool!:wub: Don't forget to take some riding pictures where we can see the landscape;)

 

Yes!  We're in Stornoway on the Isle of Lewis, 50 miles from mainland Scotland.  They have countless miles of hiking/mountain bike trails through dense forests with lots of mountains, rivers, and views of the open ocean - perfect for EUC riding!  I pretty sure that I'm the first and only EUC rider on the island. :)  I'm looking forward to filming my rides for YouTube as soon as I can get to the point where I can ride comfortably and safely enough to hold a camera.  Soon I hope! 

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1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Is there a reason you haven't pushed your dealer to get you the board with the bigger MOSFETs?

They did ship the new board from China.  I hope it arrives this week!

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

In general, even though I am very very satisfied with my 100V Nikola Plus, I am still suspicious of whether it will cool properly in high heat scenarios, hence why I am exploring doing the @Phil McLaughlin thermal paste-mic insulator chip installation for the board MOSFET cooling, for better heat transmission to the heatsink.

That would be very cool to see on YouTube! :) 

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You use the iPhone app? I think you may have a wrong one. There's two, "Gotway" and "kebye Gotway" and kebye is the good (latest) version. You should be able to set tiltback to anything up to 48kph or disable it, but I'm not familiar with the non-Android apps.

Overvoltage makes no sense on acceleration. That's literally if your batteries are 100% full and being recharged from braking. Only then.

I have no idea what these beeps are. Maybe something rare/indicating an error? You can investigate more, maybe something comes up, ideally you post a video of the behavior (or wait for the new board - frustrating, but safer).

If you really want to get into it, you can do a lift test: switch the wheel on, lift it, and slowly (by tilting) spin it up to speed. Maybe then the beeps appear and you see what the exact beep sequence is and at what speed they appear. The tiltback may interfere with that (you'd feel it as a jolt followed by the wheel spinning up rapidly). So not sure how well that works, but it is an idea.

By the way, don't give up. If EUCs seem like a confusing mess (they are!), that all goes away once your wheel works and you enjoy the pure bliss of riding. High highs, low lows are typical for EUCs. The trick is to not give up in the bad times. Maybe sailboats are like this too;) Gorgeous place you are in!

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1 hour ago, DrakeParagon said:

How do you disable the tiltback speed?  In the Gotway app I can set "tilt up foot step speed" to anywhere between 15km/hr and 24 km/hr, but there doesn't seem to be an option to set it to a higher speed or to disable it.

Been a long time since I've went into the app tiltback menu, but it should be set as 0kph(?)) (someone can correct me on this if need be).

1 hour ago, DrakeParagon said:

They did ship the new board from China.  I hope it arrives this week!

Ah nice! I really wouldn't ride the wheel though, until you swap the board.

1 hour ago, DrakeParagon said:

That would be very cool to see on YouTube! :) 

@Phil McLaughlin's very excellent Nikola MOSFET vids:

 

 

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On 8/2/2019 at 7:59 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Overvoltage makes no sense on acceleration. That's literally if your batteries are 100% full and being recharged from braking. Only then.  I have no idea what these beeps are. Maybe something rare/indicating an error? You can investigate more, maybe something comes up, ideally you post a video of the behavior (or wait for the new board - frustrating, but safer).

I tried riding the Nikola again today and closely observed the beeps.  

When I accelerate too fast my Nikola beeps continuously until I slow down.  

I read this means "80% power alarm, 5 beeps per second(continuously non-stop beeping without pause"  

But I wonder why that would be happening?  I also get the tilt back whenever I try to accelerate.  So basically my Nikola really just wants to go pretty slow.  

I hope this gets fixed when I get the new board.

On 8/2/2019 at 7:59 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Gorgeous place you are in!  Stornoway, Outer Hebrides, Scotland, is that correct? Cool!:wub: Don't forget to take some riding pictures where we can see the landscape;)

Yes, we're in Stornoway.  They have countless miles of hiking/mountain bike trails through dense forests with lots of mountains, rivers, and views of the open ocean - perfect for EUC riding!  Yesterday on a whim I took a couple minutes of video with an old Apple iPod touch.  Just having fun. :) 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DrakeParagon said:

I tried riding the Nikola again today and closely observed the beeps.  

When I accelerate too fast my Nikola beeps continuously until I slow down.  

I read this means "80% power alarm, 5 beeps per second(continuously non-stop beeping without pause"  

But I wonder why that would be happening?  I also get the tilt back whenever I try to accelerate.  So basically my Nikola really just wants to go pretty slow.  

I hope this gets fixed when I get the new board.

At what speed approximately? This is really unusual and shouldn't even happen with the old board (which is fine besides the possible glue problem).

Your charger works (red light when charging and the app shows some good battery percentage)?

Let's see if the new board fixes it.

Nice vid!

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On 8/5/2019 at 1:54 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

At what speed approximately? This is really unusual and shouldn't even happen with the old board (which is fine besides the possible glue problem).

Your charger works (red light when charging and the app shows some good battery percentage)?

Let's see if the new board fixes it.

Nice vid!

I just got back from my first ride with the new board installed.  Before, the Gotway app always crashed whenever I chose settings.  But after installing the board it worked! For the first time I was able to turn off the tilt back speed and set the mode too soft.  But the non-stop alarm still went off every time I accelerated.  I ran Darknessbot and kept observing the stats when the alarm went off.  It seemed that every time I went faster than 15 kph the non stop alarm would start and keep beeping until I slowed down.  For the next hour I rode between 10-15 kph and kept bumping up to the 15 kph speed when the alarm would go off.  Then I quit the Darknessbot app and ran the Gotway app again and immediately the  alarm stopped beeping at 15 kph.  Weird!  I rode for the next hour without any alarms going off no matter how fast I went.  YAYYYY!!!!!  I think it may all be working right now. 

The thought of anything going wrong at high speed and doing is faceplant on concrete is such a scary thought.  I think I'm going to get some armour with chest, back and torso protectection next.  

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Nice, you got the new board in! Now you're safe.

Not sure where that 15kph alarm came from. There is no mechanism on Gotways to set custom alarm speeds. There's only the 30/35kph alarms you can switch off and the 80% alarm somewhere north of 50kph (depends on the battery charge) which is always there anyways. Very strange.

If you want to test, you can lift the wheel up and slowly speed it up by tilting and see when an alarm appears (watching an app while you lift it). Any unusual behavior on a EUC is always a reason to investigate (because any failure means faceplant), so I recommend you do that. Better safe than sorry!

But I guess you wheel is good now and everything works:)

34 minutes ago, DrakeParagon said:

The thought of anything going wrong at high speed and doing is faceplant on concrete is such a scary thought.  I think I'm going to get some armour with chest, back and torso protectection next.  

Protection in order of importance:

  • Wrist guards (not just regular gloves). They must both allow for unimpeded sliding (with a hard plastic slide plate or similar, if they don't slide they ram your arms into your shoulder in a crash, which can mean nasty shoulder injuries) as well as protect against abrasion of your palms.
  • Knee pads and a (full face) helmet
  • Elbow pads, and everything else you feel is good for you.

Happy riding!

Edited by meepmeepmayer

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