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chrisjunlee

Kingsong 16X review/wheelog/journal 🐸

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@chrisjunlee, I’m so sorry to hear that! Glad that you survived seemingly well.

What worries me is that you were able to ankle-flick the 18XL as well. I always thought it was a safe wheel regarding power reserves.

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Posted (edited)

Oh man, that sucks, but have you considered switching to motorcycles when speed is so important to you?
Why do you always have to go to the limit, there are so many other things you can do with an EUC. (see my profile picture) :D

 

Edited by buell47

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Night ? - Tues, 10/6/2019 ==

It finally happened - I crashed at speed. 

Too tired to write everything out, but I'll make this clear: this crash affirms everything I've warned about before.

  • the 16X is a 25 mph wheel - anything beyond that, you are on thin ice, a tilt away from overleaning
  • the Kingsong dip is not a feature as the fanboys insist - if you don't proactively recover the dip, you will overlean
  • ankle flicks do indeed simulate what happens with COM bodyshift lean, with the benefit of having instant recovery (there are people that believe different motions = different effects, thus dismissing my ankle flick pedal dip demonstration)

Injury wise, I'm ok. I just wish I had my motorcycle gloves on instead of wrist guards. My backpack and my new Dainese jacket are thrashed.

I don't want to get into details, but I'll say this: this accident wouldn't have happened on the Nikola - period.

Video is uploading overnight.

First of all in glad your ok 👍

I did post on your video the other day that riding at that speed your living on the edge of the limit ,,,i wrote this before your crash,,Why are you and people testing the limits of the speed stay away from the top speed ..i don't want to seem to be harsh but riding like this in the video with the beeps going off was asking for trouble . Glad your ok though but this wheel isn't built for speed there's been enough posts about this 👍

Take care

Ps! Can i ask your battery level at your crash and what firmware 😬

 

Edited by stephen

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13 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

== Day ? - Tues, 10/6/2019 ==

Upgraded to v1.07 and I regret it. Frustrated enough to make an immediate knee jerk post.

Took the wheel out for a spirited 20  mile ride - left with 55% battery spirited.

What's different?

  • performance: nothing. I accelerated hard and I feel no difference.
  • overleaning issue: still exists
  • tiltback settings: no change from my perspective since I ride through the beeps (I have 1200 miles at this point and know the wheel well)

What's the one thing that's changed which makes me regret upgrading?

Kingsong has added a non-stop alarm beep if you charge over 5A

In other words, Kingsong has nullified the benefit of their dual charging port.

I ride a lot and for those rare sunny days like today, I ride hard and top off every 20 miles, charging at 10A. That was a saving grace feature for this underwhelming wheel.

 v1.01 without the bluetooth fix is my favorite firmware (put over 800 miles on it).

Every single update has been a degradation in performance or quality of life.

This is my impression of Kingsong thus far: they are liars. Not only do they falsely advertise, they chip away their features with each update. 

Their success relies on pandering to that risk adverse lizard brain with their non-sense 'safety' argument. It's the same as the TSA in the US.

1.07 firmware ;)

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5 hours ago, stephen said:

First of all in glad your ok 👍

I did post on your video the other day that riding at that speed your living on the edge of the limit ,,,i wrote this before your crash,,Why are you and people testing the limits of the speed stay away from the top speed ..i don't want to seem to be harsh but riding like this in the video with the beeps going off was asking for trouble . Glad your ok though but this wheel isn't built for speed there's been enough posts about this 👍

Take care

Ps! Can i ask your battery level at your crash and what firmware 😬

 

What were those beeps? It was nonstop during the whole video.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

What were those beeps? It was nonstop during the whole video.

Reaching limit beeps basically telling you to slow down,,Warning beeps,,, living on the edge 😬😬

Edited by stephen

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31 minutes ago, stephen said:

Reaching limit beeps basically telling you to slow down,,Warning beeps,,, living on the edge 😬😬

Why would he have done that? No wonder he face planted.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, buell47 said:

Oh man, that sucks, but have you considered switching to motorcycles when speed is so important to you?
Why do you always have to go to the limit, there are so many other things you can do with an EUC. (see my profile picture) :D

I do miss my trackdays:

Un0Gcou.jpg

9 hours ago, stephen said:

I did post on your video the other day that riding at that speed your living on the edge of the limit ,,,i wrote this before your crash,,Why are you and people testing the limits of the speed stay away from the top speed .

Someone out there, there is a rider averaging 10 mph, that's asking the same question to you. 

9 hours ago, stephen said:

i don't want to seem to be harsh but riding like this in the video with the beeps going off was asking for trouble

I want to make this absolutely clear: in my crash, I was nowhere near the beeps. Guess how fast I was riding? 25 mph - exactly the threshold speed I warn about. 

Advanced point: the beeps are a rough approximation. It is the machine interpreting something for you. There is an even better way: direct feedback.

The ankle flick is now one of my toolset moves to get immediate feedback on the wheel's capacity.

3 hours ago, Patton250 said:

What were those beeps? It was nonstop during the whole video.

Kingsong has 2 types of beeps. I'm intentionally riding the beeps here for 2 reasons:

  1. To make the speed discrepancy as obvious as possible
  2. To show I'm skilled enough to edgeplay the beeps for a long time, thus giving credibility that I am intimate with this wheel
1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I see @chrisjunlee as performing a valuable service. It's good to know the limits even if you have no plans on going there yourself.

You understand <3

I doubt Kingsong does much testing around fast speeds. It's just too much work/friction compared to the hallway tests you can do for slower speeds. On top of that, the volunteer pool is smaller as well.

Edited by chrisjunlee

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

The ankle flick is now one of my toolset moves to get immediate feedback on the wheel's capacity

Was you doing this when you crashed, 

In your video you said i was asking for that one,,, why,, what did you do?

Edited by stephen

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21 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I do miss my trackdays:

Un0Gcou.jpg

Someone out there, there is a rider averaging 10 mph, that's asking the same question to you. 

I want to make this absolutely clear: in my crash, I was nowhere near the beeps. Guess how fast I was riding? 25 mph - exactly the threshold speed I warn about. 

Advanced point: the beeps are a rough approximation. It is the machine interpreting something for you. There is an even better way: direct feedback.

The ankle flick is now one of my toolset moves to get immediate feedback on the wheel's capacity.

Kingsong has 2 types of beeps. I'm intentionally riding the beeps here for 2 reasons:

  1. To make the speed discrepancy as obvious as possible
  2. To show I'm skilled enough to edgeplay the beeps for a long time, thus giving credibility that I am intimate with this wheel

You understand <3

I doubt Kingsong does much testing around fast speeds. It's just too much work/friction compared to the hallway tests you can do for slower speeds. On top of that, the volunteer pool is smaller as well.

Is that picture of you? :shock2:

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Is that picture of you? :shock2:

Yes, turn 2, Thunderhill, California. GPS shows I was going ~80 mph. On a street bike too 😆. When done right, you feel weightless - it's just amazing.

That is what I progressing towards on the Nikola

33 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Great video, and now we have evidence that yes indeed, KingSong wheels can cutout.

Can you elaborate (if you know) on what initiated the cutout. You were traveling at ~26-mph and you ..... ?

I wouldn't say cutout - it was an overlean. But I know what you mean ;)

So the details.

== Context ==

First day on v1.07, and I've rode pretty zippy all day to try to see what was different about v1.07. Here's my numbers to give you an idea:

image.png.d1c43fcd881f5e68b99584c698eb4d

Yup, at 130lbs, I'm drawing 3455 W. 

And at this point, I am ankle flicking regularly. Just like rolling back and forth pre-ride, or carving, it's another tool in my toolbox to get feedback from the wheel.

And it's important to understand my mindset: before the crash, I was 90% confident the pedal dips were due to the under-performance of the wheel.

But still, that 10% in the back of my mind, people saying the dip is a feature, that if I were to body lean for real that the wheel would just balance me right up, to have faith. That doubt has always been nagging me in the back of my mind.

== Details ==

You can't tell from the video, but I was sitting down. Probably as soon as I entered that trail.

I decided to pedal dip, but there's only one way to do that while seated. Hands on nose, center of mass shift push off. Also, going downhill means more voltage to play with. I miscalculated the amount of force and dipped past the point of no return.

== Impact Details ==

Pretty much ragdoll rolled on the left side. 

Left forearm first, then left shoulder. Then rolled onto left back.

Most abrasion on left shoulder - which is why I love moto jackets.

Backpack is gnarly. Left zippers are melted. 

Bit of road rash on gloves - I regret not having moto gloves on.

Body a bit sore, but otherwise, no bruises.

36 minutes ago, stephen said:

Ps soon as you started riding again you was going 27mph didn't anything concern you?

Not concerned at all since I understood exactly what happened. 

As for confidence? Not too shaken up.

There is one subtle important point I want you to understand: what happened here is related to, but different than the risk of riding faster.

I need time to think of a way to explain. But let's just say, before I was riding 85% of my capacity, and today I'm riding 80%. Here's my commute today:

u0nZ4l4.jpg

Edited by chrisjunlee

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== random extra photo ==

See that side pocket with the melted zipper? This is what was inside, taking the burnt of the impact 😆

uOjWrNZ.jpg

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8 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

Yes, turn 2, Thunderhill, California. GPS shows I was going ~80 mph. On a street bike too 😆. When done right, you feel weightless - it's just amazing.

It doesn't look much different to me when I drive years ago with my old Buell X1 and my girlfriend to the next ice cream parlour. Except that my helmet is black and I only wear a T-shirt and a short. :yawn:

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7 minutes ago, stephen said:

Ooh man your a brave soul , i take my hat off to you they way you ride and thenthem crazy ankle kicks😬

Wait till you see me on the Nikola. I miss that wheel so much.

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Just now, chrisjunlee said:

Wait till you see me on the Nikola. I miss that wheel so much.

😬😬 I can't wait 😬 just be careful dude👍

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9 minutes ago, Seba said:

Well, you should not blame King Song as we have a culprit - this can of Red Bull certainly gave you wings! The problem is that it's sugarfree, so that's why your flight was rather short :efefa6edcf:

:o   :laughbounce2:   :facepalm:

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1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

 i do miss my trackdays:

Un0Gcou.jpg

My old motorbike on a track day .i can't say i leaned it over as far as you though 😬Screenshot-20190929-081133.jpg

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1 hour ago, chrisjunlee said:

Here's the crash video that turned into a birb collage at 3 am. Enjoy in super HD 2650p60 🦜!

 

Awesome video ! I fell asleep at the end of your video... don't know why, maybe the music... anyway, thanks ! :-)

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@chrisjunlee I'm sure your wheel is faulty it shouldn't dip like that mate

Have you asked anyone apart from this forum?

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