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Nikola and Nikola Plus compared to 16X


Dzlchef

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6 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I was out for repairs for a while, so I missed a bit of fun. I still want to respond to a few earlier comments.

From a coding perspective, the user behaviour of the process is extremely easy to replicate. Just by seeing the behaviour on a video even I could code a (plugin for an audio recording) software that would have the same interaction and sets of beeps. And I’m barely past being a beginner in coding. I wouldn’t base much on the processes being identical.

For some people, sure. Most people don’t have the ability to be objective. For sure nobody can be trusted to recognize this themselves. I’d guess that most forum members do not share a strong brand mentality though. Just that the loudest one(s) might. :P

In my mind how a well functioning forum works, is that people can post strong, biased, and wrong opinions all they want. But the key thing is for every reader to understand that any comment is just ramblings from a single doochebag. One can be a long time forum member. Still just a single dooche.

Every single human being is wrong in something they believe to be true. And nobody gets their point across every time as intended. If you feel that you got hammered, it is even possible that they were trying to make a joke (which is sometimes quite difficult on an international forum). I’d try just not to take it that way.

And even if you did get hammered, so what? Next time you go for a poop, say it aloud: ”I got hammered at the electric unicycles discussion forum.” Then have a laugh and come back to get hammered about some other subject as well!

I ride up to 9000 km a year, and spend a lot of time modifying my rides and gear. I believe I’m exceptionally skilled in taking these toys extremely seriously. If someone here says anything negative about my wheels or their manufacturers... they are dead wrong. My choices have always been perfect. And the manufacturers I have chosen have always been perfect as well, so I will defend their forum reputation to the last drop.

My two wheels are a Gotway and a KingSong.

It’s a well known psychological feature for any person to get a feeling of belonging to a product or an idea they have chosen to follow, pay for, or otherwise take into their life. Belittling the shortcomings of a brand or product is a natural part of this behaviour, since it’s all about defending one’s pack, no matter the shortcomings.

”I ride Gotway” or ”I ride KingSong” (or any other brand) reveals this clearly. It’s a pointless phrase. We don’t ride manufacturers, we ride specific models. When one says that, it’s clear they are longing for the pack mentality. I find it helpful to recognise this pattern in people, so I can judge their comments better for what they are worth.

Also, taking things more seriously than they’re worth may extend to how one views this forum as well. I know it’s almost  like a lifeline for me, but it’s still just a discussion forum.

 

What a great analogy! Not sure if your soda consumption might’ve gotten a bit excessive though. :lol:

Oh man, I feel for you! Those are perhaps the worst areas where objectivity is thrown out the window before even shaking hands with the subject. And also areas where ”perfect” doesn’t excist. I’m a retired audio engineer, and I was always the most enthusiastic of our class about speakers and headphones. I never understood how anyone could even work with the Genelec 10xx series, which were everywhere at the time.

What makes the best speaker in the world? Room acoustics. I believe the same viewpoint translates to almost all stuff: Good is only good if it is in the correct habitat, or in the hands of a suitable user.

”Nikola vs 16X, which is better?” For who? Where? What kind of riding? Etc. These threads are great for spotting the differences between models, not which one a single person find’s the best for him.

Btw. @Mike Sacristan, if you ever take a trip to southern Finland, please get in touch!

 

While my 16x2.5” 16S is quite different from the original, I consider it to ride much closer to the original 16S than to a V10F (or the 18XL). I think tire width just lends to one aspect of the overall riding feel, and based on which exact aspects the rider focuses on, (s)he can give very different assesments. 

If we knew the voltage ranges the wheels use, I might be inclined to take you on! Paypal ok? :lol:

I was very happy to hear that KS was going from the pre-production ChaoYang H-5146 back to the comfy-grippy-nimbly-offroady CST-1488, which is the current Nikola tire. Seeing that they opted for something else entirely is surprising and a bit disappointing to me. I know I’ve seen that pattern before, but I’m not sure which brand it was.

I guess I’m mostly disappointed in myself for being so gullible. Lol. I was hanging on the words of a few people here and when they were slamming the newest wheel I took it seriously. I  truly didn’t care that I had just bought that wheel myself. But later after reading posts from several different threads I came to realize it was all about brand loyalty and a couple of these guys were really just rooting for the failure of one newly released wheel. That also made me feel like my input/opinion as to the differences between the two latest wheels was futile unless of course my kudos were given to their brand of choice. Now I’m not sure who here will really be objective. I’ve never really been totally loyal to a brand in any hobby I have. I’ve always just been attracted to the best and that almost ALWAYS isn’t subjective. The best is the best. Anyway thanks for your comments. I appreciate it. 

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3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

<snip>

From a coding perspective, the user behaviour of the process is extremely easy to replicate. Just by seeing the behaviour on a video even I could code a (plugin for an audio recording) software that would have the same interaction and sets of beeps. And I’m barely past being a beginner in coding. I wouldn’t base much on the processes being identical.

<snip>

If we knew the voltage ranges the wheels use, I might be inclined to take you on! Paypal ok? :lol:

<snip>

Of course. But if KingSong is going to release a wheel, why go through the effort of duplicating the procedure from another manufacturer. Seems like a lot more work than just developing your own procedure like Ninebot, Inmotion, etc.

Really? You think an 1845wh wheel will have less range than a 1600wh wheel :confused1:

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On 8/1/2019 at 6:52 PM, houseofjob said:

Yup, which is why Gotway is doing this banana hammock seat, which I'm conflicted about, mainly cuz of the optics (probably gonna cave and get it at some point tho *ugh)

67519528_2077684925858381_5101326399138955264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQnc_jbS49b2O06MYmO4NfCyqOVNyLJPNRIyjGAPJFypW6AgdSYnb_H7T2L4sY3hANE&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=37b04ca76624b3004f98268749bb8d89&oe=5DA17DF9

I won’t even lie, that seat looks extremely comfortable haha. 

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24 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I won’t even lie, that seat looks extremely comfortable haha. 

thats a unicycle seat lmao.. it looks like they just made some sort of mounting bracket to attach to the underside of a regular unicycle seat and viola.. probably super comfortable, but ugly as sin.. it looks so high up that you could probably easily wheel it around using the seat instead of the trolley handle

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8 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I wonder if you can jump the wheel with the seats hand part like on the manuals. That would be revolutionary 

it would no doubt be a lot harder because of the weight and shape of the nikola, i guess you could add pads and if you had the strength you could jump the nikola.. but not by the seat as it looks to just be holding on to the handle.. so you would just end up lifting up the nikolas trolley lol.. i guess if you could figure a way to tie down the handle really tight it might be possible

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3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Of course. But if KingSong is going to release a wheel, why go through the effort of duplicating the procedure from another manufacturer. Seems like a lot more work than just developing your own procedure like Ninebot, Inmotion, etc.

”Hey engineer! Here’s a sample wheel from another mfg. It has user calibration! I wan’t that in our wheel. Make it happen!”

Might not require more than a chance and a pedantic engineer to make it identical. They do imitate eachother all the time in many other ways as well. But I am of course just speculating, it is also possible that the codebase itself is the same. 

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Really? You think an 1845wh wheel will have less range than a 1600wh wheel :confused1:

If the 1600Wh wheel has a better power management, a softer riding mode behaviour, and goes 0.3V lower per cell, absolutely.

We already see it when comparing the MSX to the 18XL.

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14 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

”Hey engineer! Here’s a sample wheel from another mfg. It has user calibration! I wan’t that in our wheel. Make it happen!”

Might not require more than a chance and a pedantic engineer to make it identical. They do imitate eachother all the time in many other ways as well. But I am of course just speculating, it is also possible that the codebase itself is the same. 

If the 1600Wh wheel has a better power management, a softer riding mode behaviour, and goes 0.3V lower per cell, absolutely.

We already see it when comparing the MSX to the 18XL.

OK. Not much more for me to say, other than I disagree :)

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7 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Thanks! I might do so one day. I wonder if I can take the MSX on the boat to Finland. It would be a fun adventure.

I’m in for as much riding as my batteries allow with 5A charging! EUC on a boat should not be an issue, but best to make sure first of course. If you can’t take your wheel, we do have some passable spares to loan, such as my 2.5” 16S (1015Wh, although degraded and perhaps comparable to a new 840Wh).

Those forest paths looked great! Precisely what we love with our core group. Although, I’d say we tend to walk less... :lol: We do ride on the wooden planks if we encounter any!

One tip we have learned: On an EUC it is often best not to slalom between the rocks and stumps, but to go over at the highest part. Lot less pedal grabbing that way.

That kind of hardcore off roading sure makes for dripping wet clothing though. I still always keep my jacket on due to the integrated protection.

 

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6 hours ago, an5vf said:

@Nils did you paint your Nikola? If so what materials did you use? Looks pro!

I used ordinary spray paint, glossy for the side stripes, and matte for the pedals. My Nikola is really showing some wear and scuff marks close up though, I guess it looks better in video ;)

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On 8/2/2019 at 12:52 AM, houseofjob said:

Yup, which is why Gotway is doing this banana hammock seat, which I'm conflicted about, mainly cuz of the optics (probably gonna cave and get it at some point tho *ugh)

67519528_2077684925858381_5101326399138955264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQnc_jbS49b2O06MYmO4NfCyqOVNyLJPNRIyjGAPJFypW6AgdSYnb_H7T2L4sY3hANE&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=37b04ca76624b3004f98268749bb8d89&oe=5DA17DF9

All they need now is a back and neck support and you have a mobile office. 

Anyway joke aside. Might be good for seated ridding, but could msybe hamper standing ridding? Maybe... 

Nice to see GW is pushing development of seated option too. This might mean KS to take this more serious too. 

That is why it is good with competition between brands, IMHO. Despite I don't have a Nikola series wheel it does help me in some way 😁

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19 minutes ago, Jake Yau said:

Today I tested the Kingson 16X, driving 35 kilometers with an average speed of 25 to 30 kilometers per hour (because I am not fully charged, but out of the box), 35PSI (I like higher tire pressure), my weight is 133 pounds. The firmware is v1.01.
Feeling acceleration and torque better than 84v Nikola, feeling closer to GT16 (of course GT16 is more flexible) In fact, I prefer GT16 but due to lack of driving distance GT16 can only be used in the city, Ks16X is quieter, but I need time to adapt to KS16X I am very satisfied with the performance of 16X and no other users.
Btw IOS system support is very poor, power and voltage can not be used, because other users report, and I am not fully charged, so I dare not try high-speed driving (35), this is because the firmware caused me psychological shadow
 

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Thanks for the review. Coolest paint job ever on your Nikola by the way. 

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On 8/4/2019 at 12:40 AM, Mike Sacristan said:
On 8/3/2019 at 3:08 AM, mrelwood said:

Btw. @Mike Sacristan, if you ever take a trip to southern Finland, please get in touch!

Thanks! I might do so one day. I wonder if I can take the MSX on the boat to Finland. It would be a fun adventure.

I don’t see why not. I have taken my KS18L on the ferry to Denmark from Sweden 3 times now (ridding it/trolleying as a walk on board passenger) on EUC pnly. Plus 1 time in the trunk of my car. 

I encouraged you to go boating and explore. 

One tip thoughdo not take the EUC out to the sundeck. Loads of salts on the winds and splashs. Even if it is a ferry. It is so fine moisture it gets into every where. 

Edited by Unventor
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1 hour ago, Unventor said:

All they need now is a back and neck support and you have a mobile office. 

Anyway joke aside. Might be good for seated ridding, but could msybe hamper standing ridding? Maybe... 

Nice to see GW is pushing development of seated option too. This might mean KS to take this more serious too. 

That is why it is good with competition between brands, IMHO. Despite I don't have a Nikola series wheel it does help me in some way 😁

I would seriously love a cup holder attachment 🍵

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2 hours ago, Jake Yau said:

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can i ask, where did you get the sticker for your nikola? i was going to wrap mine but if someone sold pre cut stickers that would be a hell of a lot easier lol

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11 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

can i ask, where did you get the sticker for your nikola? i was going to wrap mine but if someone sold pre cut stickers that would be a hell of a lot easier lol

I bought it in Hong Kong through China Taobao, but I don’t know where to buy it in Europe or the United States. I am sorry.:efee565ab0:

Edited by Jake Yau
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  • 3 months later...
On 8/3/2019 at 3:40 PM, Mike Sacristan said:

Thanks! I might do so one day. I wonder if I can take the MSX on the boat to Finland. It would be a fun adventure.

Always a pleasure to read your posts!

Today I was out riding with Nils (84v Nikola), Pierre (18XL) and Tobbe (100v 1845 Nikola). I tried Tobbes 100v Nik+ and it felt nice. The tyre is great on these wheels. We cruised out to a road that isn't used that often. It has a speed limit of 50kmh which we might have passed a few times. Then we went off into a crazy forest. Roots and rocks everywhere. Nils jumped off his Nikola a few times. Tobbe has only had his Nik+ for a few days so he walked it through the exceptionally crappy parts. I hit a tree stump with my pedal and it took me all of 0.1 seconds to fall like a pancake. Landed mostly on my left hand and my left leg. A little bruised but that's all. Great fun ride. Next time maybe i'll film as well with the camera filming the wheel and terrain.

Tobbe (Nik+ 1845Wh) weighs around 90kg. He had 32% battery left after our 62km cruise.
My riding weight today was 67kg. I had 38% battery left on my 84v 1600Wh MSX.
Nils weighs around 90kg as well and had 16% battery left on his Nikola 84v 1600Wh.
Pierre (18XL) had a longer way home and totaled 70km and his battery was at 16%. Also around 90kg.

I didn't realise Nils was filming the off-road so excuse my Swedish. 
@Nils hope you don't mind but it's too good to miss.
The Nikola can take quite a beating! Just some scratches here and there otherwise all good. Sick!

 

I finally got around to seeing this. Hilarious :D  And yes, all of us trail riders have gotten stuck going down paths that get worse and worse with no turning back. Makes for a fun day :thumbup:

And videos never capture the real difficulty. I know exactly how bad this was, but someone who hasn't ridden trails will look at the video and say, "that doesn't look very difficult".

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14 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I finally got around to seeing this. Hilarious :D  And yes, all of us trail riders have gotten stuck going down paths that get worse and worse with no turning back. Makes for a fun day :thumbup:

And videos never capture the real difficulty. I know exactly how bad this was, but someone who hasn't ridden trails will look at the video and say, "that doesn't look very difficult".

Haha yeah especially seen from above. In my mind I believe I have taken harder trails since then but like you say.. hard to see. I would have to do the same trail again. And then maybe again with the 16X and compare with the MSX.

I do have a little practice trail around 5 minutes from here though so that serves the purpose for comparisons.

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