Nikola and Nikola Plus compared to 16X

[Marty Backe]

14 hours ago, US69 said:

Marty allready answered ...but his answer is just half the truth...

It is not only that the KS owner believes in safety, it is also the technical restrictions of our batteries that make KS throttle the Wheel on low battery.

So it is not just "stupid"...most of the Standard non techie users don't know About voltagedrops and Battery undervoltage protections which can easily jump in and make you faceplant on low battery. 

When Performance means only max Speed ….KS will never compete with GW in form of bringing out 70-80kmh wheels.

It is common About the owners/Managers  at KS, that 50kmh for a self balancer is allready enough.

When Performance also means some other points like torque and agileness...i have to disagree, most of my KS wheels have beaten GW in this category.

 

As far as i know thats a completly Internet fairie tale. 

And beside the calibration process there is absolutly nothing that speaks for it.....KS very first Wheel, the 14C has had absolutly Nothing in common with the at time competitor GW MCM2...it had a total different board...it had adjustable Speed Alarms....Bluetooth Music AND Bluetooth app...light...backlight….and some other Features that GW didnt even Dream About at the time. 

So even  when the KS boss was once working at GW...then he definitly was the creative one :-)

Also when Talking About "big battery" wheels...that's btw nothing that GW has invented. Actually here, too KS, was the first Company with a 1360/1680wh 18A ...while GW still doing a Msuper V2 680wh. You might give GW the Benefit of the 84V wheels...but naaah, that was actually InMotion  

But to be totally clear:

Actually you can love both Companies and their wheels…..my personal Wheel split GW and KS is now at having had 6 of each, and each of the wheels had it's plus and minus and a reason to have it or not. Actually no reason to blame or bash on competitors. Without the EUC world would be boring!

How do you explain the extreme similarities in the calibration procedure. I have to believe that there is common firmware. And they both have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd alarms.

There are too many similarities for there not to be shared firmware.

But, I guess only a few people at Gotway and KingSong know the real truth.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Patton250]

Im starting to think some of you guys think of these wheels like some think of wine. So in some of your minds there is zero chance any wheel is similar to another. I just don’t take it that seriously. At least not yet. I really don’t think I’ll ever have the time to anyway. So I might just stay out of giving my opinion and stick to asking questions or just reading threads. 

[Nils]

8 hours ago, UniVehje said:

So your Nikola cut out on you at 35 mph and you are then recommending it because it let you do that? A wheel should never do that to you. I get that some people don't want restrictions but there is a price to pay. 

Is he recommending it because of that? Was that in an earlier post?

I managed to over-power my first wheel, the KS16B, without any prior warnings from the wheel. While I wouldn't recommend that particular wheel as there are now better alternatives, both KS and otherwise, I sold it off to an acquaintance for a friendly price all in good conscience. It works very well for her, and I don't see any issues given her more petite physique and more risk adverse riding. Myself I went searching for a wheel with larger margins that would work well for me.

This is an electric vehicle with only one wheel that we're riding. While I like for every manufacturer to really consider safety, I personally don't think there's any wheel from any manufacturer that can be considered 100% safe at this time, even disregarding electronics malfunctioning. Given the right conditions I believe any wheel can be over-powered. Not to say that it shouldn't be prevented as much as possible, but just that I don't think it's possible to actually prevent it 100%.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 minute ago, Patton250 said:

I knew my words would be misinterpreted. I’m gonna give up after this. 

Don't give up, hold fast. It was clear (with a bit of goodwill) from what you originally wrote that you mean the 16S and 18XL ride more nimbly while the MSX, Nikola and 16X are more planted and tank-like, which is why you say the Nikola and 16X are similar.

Somehow people are just on edge since the 16X release. Kingsongers are disappointed that they can't just say the 16X is better than the Nikola, which by all rights it should have been, because of all these (smaller) quirks and issues (or maybe they are just, you know, annoyed by these annoying quirks and issues). Meanwhile, Gotway stans have to hold back their Schadenfreude for civility and stay quiet on their opinion that Gotways just ride better to prevent the KS vs. GW civil war from breaking out again. (Some hyperbole in this paragraph)

As you do have both wheels (keep your profile up to date on that btw), feel free to post your first-hand impressions of the 16X and the Nikola in the appropriate places (like here!), and formulate  how you like. Don't let any (perceived) obstacle stop you "Original content" is still the best of content here.

[Nils]

7 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Somehow people are just on edge since the 16X release. Kingsongers are disappointed that they can't just say the 16X is better than the Nikola, which by all rights it should have been, because of all these (smaller) quirks and issues (or maybe they are just, you know, annoyed by these annoying quirks and issues). Meanwhile, Gotway stans have to hold back their Schadenfreude for civility and stay quiet on their opinion that Gotways just ride better to prevent the KS vs. GW civil war from breaking out again. (Some hyperbole in this paragraph)

Ha ha, well put! It's a weird time to be on the forum after the KS16X release, tensions really run high it seems. At any rate, 2019 turned out be to interesting. The Nikola, while hated on by many in the beginning at least for its looks, actually turned out to be very good wheel. The KS16X seems like it will also be a very good wheel. Inmotion seems like they will just pass on this year and come back in 2020 (or possibly late 2019, but that would be the same thing in my book).

[Nils]

32 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Im starting to think some of you guys think of these wheels like some think of wine. So in some of your minds there is zero chance any wheel is similar to another. I just don’t take it that seriously. At least not yet. I really don’t think I’ll ever have the time to anyway. So I might just stay out of giving my opinion and stick to asking questions or just reading threads.  

I think @meepmeepmayer put it very well in his reply, but I'll just second that you shouldn't give up. It's always interesting to hear someone else's perspective! We will all have have different perspectives of course, so other peoples' will differ from yours and they will add their own thoughts and comments about it. In short, your input is very appreciated, but expect differing opinions (apart from what meep said it's the Internet after all).

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Im starting to think some of you guys think of these wheels like some think of wine. So in some of your minds there is zero chance any wheel is similar to another. I just don’t take it that seriously. At least not yet. I really don’t think I’ll ever have the time to anyway. So I might just stay out of giving my opinion and stick to asking questions or just reading threads. 

You do realize that you're posting in a Forum dedicated to EUCs and frequented by people with a passionate interest in said vehicles.

Yes, when you have lived and breathed nothing but EUCs for years, you do judge them like fine wines and can instantly detect the subtle or not so subtle differences between them.

I like your wine analogy. Image going to a wine tasting event with a group of connoisseurs. All you've ever drank is $10 bottles of wine from the grocery store. Then you proceed to give your opinion of the different wines. How would your opinion be received?

Well, you're with a bunch of wine connoisseurs here 

In a year to two you too will be able to express the differences between various wheels and add your considered perspective.

This is not to say that you have nothing to contribute. Far from it. But just consider the wider perspective of the community here as you do so.

Please stick around as we help you to distinguish a Merlot from a Malbec 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Marty Backe

[US69]

53 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Do do you explain the extreme similarities in the calibration procedure. I have to believe that there is common firmware. And they both have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd alarms.

There are too many similarities for there not to be shared firmware.

But, I guess only a few people at Gotway and KingSong know the real truth.

As said Marty, beside the calibration there is nothing at all, see my post,  the alarms are adjustable on KS from day one, the complete philsophy, tiltback and safety wise is different. Boards from KS are self produced as instead of third party boards.

Also, firmware wise, i know that KS is running a pretty different motor driver...for example they have a amp border (and fuses) while GW has none at all.

But you know what?I will try to find out about history with my KS contacts! And dont worry...someone who will be honest...not the boss 

Press thumbs that i will get an answer....

Edited July 31, 2019 by US69

[Kens]

PSA: 100V Nikola Plus 1845Wh is currently IN STOCK now at eWheels!

[US69]

To all this “GW and KS competition”...

Really, cant this go without the “Schadenfreude” and without any tensions?

As said...i tried the Nikola! It runs phantastic!!! no question!

 

Nonetheless....there are different important Usecases to some wheel owners!

While the Nikola for Marty with his 50Miles rides might be the wet dream of Euc....for a daily 5-10 miles commuter it might just not be the right wheel?! So as said before....for me usability in daily commuting 5 times a week is important as the one tour i make on weekend!

And so for that reasons the Nikola just would be second or third choice.

And to be clear: you can find out disadvantages or advantages for every wheel! Thats just a example....

 

It is really sad that the EUC community is sometimes a kind of poisened....

So My best advice would be:

Buy them all :-)

Thats how i try to get over my EUC craving....Always having the 2-3 newest wheels at Home. No matter what brand!

Edited July 31, 2019 by US69

[Unventor]

Well as you know I prefer the latest Kingsong wheels and their way of thinking. 

I am not at all disappointed that there are some things that needs fixing on the KS16X, it is what it is on 1st batch. 

This where the huge difference come into play many thing can be fixed by KS if it comes down to firmware updates. This is something GW can't. 

From what I gather also for now, it seems it is old-timer GW people mostly that got KS wheels first. Which of course doesn't help on early impressions. Some might not agree on that, but here is my point to why:

Start up of the wheel is different and it start by wheel is locked in the box. Next thing is the speed limitations set by KS.

By wheel design GW attracts freedom riders (we could call then speed junkies or other things) main focus point is speed. So a KS forced start up adoptation period doesn't go down well. 

Now we are at a next stsge, ride habit and feel of the wheel. I can't judge from the posts so far if there is something wrong or it is fine tuning or just brand differences. 

What I can say is latest update to my KS18L (1.13) made it more responsive but it did more that that. It started to assist the rider more, that my best description. 

It would very slightly dip the pedals taking of the straign riding mid to high speeds and climbing hills. It would also do the opposite when going down a hill, assisting you with the braking, just slightly. 

At first it it felt odd but now I like it, I like it a lot actually. It helps me feel what the wheel is thinking. I am sure it isn't your famous GW glide. But I like the KS ride style before and this new one. 

Right now that is the last 2 cent I will post. Yes I do defend a brand to not do another GW wheel. I prefer diversety. If it was so simple that one would be better than the other then all other brands would die out very fast. 

I have tried to help some of you with the start up process of KS, right now I just need a wheel for myself and build my own expirance on. If I can help in the future I really can say for now. But I expect like a quarter (3 months) would be the time needed to iron out the shirt from KS. 

I do think the past few days have shown 2 things:

1: people are getting much more polarizer in a bad way. 

2: how important a new release of a wheel is. It needs to happen at the right time, and picked up by the "right" people, and that mass follows regardless. It seems to becoming more black/white how people choose, and that I don't like at all. 

[houseofjob]

Guys, I take everything that I said back.

The Nikola & 16X & MSX & DMX & INSX & Professor X ride exactly the same.

But also, they ride completely different.

 

And, the Nikola is by far a much better wheel than the 16X. King Song fans, please give me my public flogging.

But also, the 16X is by far a much better wheel than the Nikola. Gotway fans, please give me my public flogging.

 

am I the only one who thinks brand loyalty with EUC is dumb? since it's all case-by-case, model-by-model, all of the f* up time-to-time

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by houseofjob

[Nils]

29 minutes ago, US69 said:

To all this “GW and KS competition”...

Really, cant this go without the “Schadenfreude” and without any tensions?

As said...i tried the Nikola! It runs phantastic!!! no question!

 

Nonetheless....there are different important Usecases to some wheel owners!

While the Nikola for Marty with his 50Miles rides might be the wet dream of Euc....for a daily 5-10 miles commuter it might just not be the right wheel?! So as said before....for me usability in daily commuting 5 times a week is important as the one tour i make on weekend!

And so for that reasons the Nikola just would be second or third choice.

And to be clear: you can find out disadvantages or advantages for every wheel! Thats just a example....

 

It is really sad that the EUC community is sometimes a kind of poisened....

So My best advice would be:

Buy them all :-)

Thats how i try to get over my EUC craving....Always having the 2-3 newest wheels at Home. No matter what brand!

I agree with your proposition of buying them all, but I just don't have the funds

I just can't help thinking it's funny though how your post starts with with a call for peace and quick nod to the competition before quickly proceeding to "just an example" of where the Nikola happens to be the third or second choice in a Nikola vs KS16X thread (5-10 miles commuter? To me the Nikola sounds like a good choice, but I haven't tried the KS16X, or any of many other wheels. The Nikola and KS16X seems like they're in the same class from early reports, but I've only ridden the former myself so far. To each their own at any rate, everyone should get the wheel they want).

For what it's worth I haven't actually seeing any "schadenfreude" (or "skadeglädje" as we say here in Sweden), but perhaps I've missed out.

Anyway, I don't really feel strongly about this myself: I love my Nikola, but the KS16X seems like it could and will be a similarly great 2019 fantastic wheel. All good news for us wheelers.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Nils

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

As said Marty, beside the calibration there is nothing at all, see my post,  the alarms are adjustable on KS from day one, the complete philsophy, tiltback and safety wise is different. Boards from KS are self produced as instead of third party boards.

Also, firmware wise, i know that KS is running a pretty different motor driver...for example they have a amp border (and fuses) while GW has none at all.

But you know what?I will try to find out about history with my KS contacts! And dont worry...someone who will be honest...not the boss 

Press thumbs that i will get an answer....

I hope you can get a good story about the founding of KingSong.

I don't see how you can say, "beside the calibration ..." and then say everything is different. You can't ignore the elephant in the room (calibration procedure).

Of course the wheels from Gotway and KingSong are hugely different now. But I'm talking about 4-years.

Anyway, look forward to hearing what you learn regarding the "KingSong Origin Story" 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

You do realize that you're posting in a Forum dedicated to EUCs and frequented by people with a passionate interest in said vehicles.

Yes, when you have lived and breathed nothing but EUCs for years, you do judge them like fine wines and can instantly detect the subtle or not so subtle differences between them.

I like your wine analogy. Image going to a wine tasting event with a group of connoisseurs. All you've ever drank is $10 bottles of wine from the grocery store. Then you proceed to give your opinion of the different wines. How would your opinion be received?

Well, you're with a bunch of wine connoisseurs here 

In a year to two you too will be able to express the differences between various wheels and add your considered perspective.

This is not to say that you have nothing to contribute. Far from it. But just consider the wider perspective of the community here as you do so.

Please stick around  as we help you to distinguish a Merlot from a Malbec 

Well  I just don’t think I will ever take it that seriously. This is pretty much the reason why I quit baseball my freshman year of high school. It got serious then and they took all the fun away. I could’ve easily played all the way through high school but once the fun was gone what was the point in my opinion.  I was never able to get that serious about firearms in my other forums I’m a member of or watches or Radar Detectors of which are my other hobbies. Somehow it always comes down to brand loyalty and feuding and it seams that’s what’s happening here.  That’s where I get uncomfortable.  People have a tendency to be loyal to what they’ve invested in rather than what is truly the best. 

[Diana]

Fascinating...i want to start a side thread to see what other hobbies you all have. EUCs obviously attract certain types of people. I didn't realize radar detectors could be a hobby...

[Marty Backe]

29 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Well  I just don’t think I will ever take it that seriously. This is pretty much the reason why I quit baseball my freshman year of high school. It got serious then and they took all the fun away. I could’ve easily played all the way through high school but once the fun was gone what was the point in my opinion.  I was never able to get that serious about firearms in my other forums I’m a member of or watches or Radar Detectors of which are my other hobbies. Somehow it always comes down to brand loyalty and feuding and it seams that’s what’s happening here.  That’s where I get uncomfortable.  People have a tendency to be loyal to what they’ve invested in rather than what is truly the best. 

So you have no passions in life (I imagine you do)? I'm passionate about EUCs. I'm not losing sleep over any of this, but I'm deeply passionate about EUCs. This gives me great joy. I think by definition if you are passionate about something then are receiving great joy from it. You seem to imply that if something is taken too seriously there is no joy in it. This thinking is alien to me.

I know there are many folks who enjoy EUCs but don't have the passion. They pop in and out of the Forum when they need help, or just totally disappear. Their passions lie elsewhere. Fine.

But I'll live my passionate EUC life regardless of others and that's fine by me 

[Marty Backe]

13 hours ago, Lucas Alexander Oliver said:

Honestly.   I ride my nikola hard as hell.  I don’t have but about a 15 mile daily commute so I am a able to push it to its limits.. and beyond. I had my first overpowered cutout yesterday.  It wouldn’t have happened if I’d paid attention to the battery. I let it drop below 50% and it cutout at 34.9 mph.  !!ouch!!  Lol.   That pavement doesn’t give.  It only takes skin.     But my nikola is tough as hell.  It only sufferedminor scratches and a broken handle even when it rolled and skidded over 20meters.    But that’s not the point.  I ride my nikola and I lean into it as hard as I can and I brake just as hard at every stop sign and relight.  I love it.  It’s exhilarating.  And my 84v nikola with the 1st gen board handles it with ease.. as long as its above 50%battery. Lol.  

I love your PASSION for riding. I can't ride like you do because of the consequences and I know the limits of our wheels. But it certainly sounds like you understand the risks but ride like the wind anyway. Hurray for you, honestly 

Enjoy your riding. I'm sure with time (and injuries) you'll eventually mellow a bit, but enjoy the wild side now for as long as you can 

[wheelr]

49 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Well  I just don’t think I will ever take it that seriously. This is pretty much the reason why I quit baseball my freshman year of high school. It got serious then and they took all the fun away. I could’ve easily played all the way through high school but once the fun was gone what was the point in my opinion.  I was never able to get that serious about firearms in my other forums I’m a member of or watches or Radar Detectors of which are my other hobbies. Somehow it always comes down to brand loyalty and feuding and it seams that’s what’s happening here.  That’s where I get uncomfortable.  People have a tendency to be loyal to what they’ve invested in rather than what is truly the best. 

Yeap, just look at the origin of this very thread, lots of fanboys butt-hurt about mentioning the Nikola on the ks16x thread  🤷🏻‍♂️

[Heyzeus]

*Cruises by on ACM 2 with no issues*

*Gives a salute of thanks to all the early adopters*

Edited July 31, 2019 by Heyzeus

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

As it is, the wheel is close to unrideable. I suspect it's a firmware-related issue, but I don't know if this is on KingSongs' radar (@US69 @Kuji Rolls?).

I believe you succinctly summarized what a majority of the 16X owners feel at this moment. 

My 16X is currently sitting at a Fedex office until my return from vacation. I am beginning to vacillate back and forth about sending the wheel back to Jason and apply the funds towards a Nikola 100V. 

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Enjoy your riding. I'm sure with time (and injuries) you'll eventually mellow a bit, but enjoy the wild side now for as long as you can 

I never received that peep talk Marty. 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

So you have no passions in life (I imagine you do)? I'm passionate about EUCs. I'm not losing sleep over any of this, but I'm deeply passionate about EUCs. This gives me great joy. I think by definition if you are passionate about something then are receiving great joy from it. You seem to imply that if something is taken too seriously there is no joy in it. This thinking is alien to me.

I know there are many folks who enjoy EUCs but don't have the passion. They pop in and out of the Forum when they need help, or just totally disappear. Their passions lie elsewhere. Fine.

But I'll live my passionate EUC life regardless of others and that's fine by me 

No man that’s not it at all. I was very passionate about baseball and I’m passionate about EUC‘s and my other hobbies.  It’s just I’m new to this forum and I think I finally realized just today that this is all about brand loyalty and not about being objective. It’s also about the feeling of superiority with experience.  These two things always cause friction on forums and people try to be nice about it but that never works because written communication almost always is a terrible way to communicate ones true feelings or in most cases hide ones true feelings.  What happened is I tried to give my honest opinion about two different wheels from two different companies and brand loyalty got in the middle of that so I got hammered for it.  One guy who I happen to respect even mocked me above.  I don’t really need that.  Thats not why I joined this forum and that’s what I meant when I talked about some people take this very seriously.  No wonder some of you gave birth to a set of dishes when I called these things toys. Lol good grief.  I apologize for showing up in the middle of this turf war.  I certainly didn’t mean to.  It’s all good.  

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Diana Chiu said:

Fascinating...i want to start a side thread to see what other hobbies you all have. EUCs obviously attract certain types of people. I didn't realize radar detectors could be a hobby...

 Without exaggerating, because sometimes I exaggerate, the Radar Detectors hobby is probably 50 to 100 times bigger than this one.  There’s a lot more to counter measures or protection from giving more of your hard-earned money to government agencies then just Radar Detectors. It’s actually quite fascinating. 

[Marty Backe]

17 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I believe you succinctly summarized what a majority of the 16X owners feel at this moment. 

My 16X is currently sitting at a Fedex office until my return from vacation. I am beginning to vacillate back and forth about sending the wheel back to Jason and apply the funds towards a Nikola 100V. 

The  on your shoulder - buy the 100-volt Nikola Plus. Incredible range and we've already been through all the typical birthing troubles. Absolutely phenomenal riding.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Marty Backe