Nikola and Nikola Plus compared to 16X

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

1845wh. FWIW relatively speaking , more battery cells can translate to more power/torque (or rather, less voltage sag across all cells), according to the DIY scooter guys. (Sorry @buell47 )

Not more power/torque. Just less voltage drop.

More battery cells don't matter on EUCs unless you get into a regime where the voltage drop on the smaller battery would cause an overlean but the bigger battery would make it. But wheel behavior won't be influenced by the battery size, the firmware decides that.

Maybe for scooters it's different. Maybe scooters suck as much juice out of the battery as they can. Then naturally bigger batteries would lead to a more powerful scooter. But it can't work like that on EUCs. You'd faceplant as soon as you reach the limit. So the firmware has to consider the voltage drop and maybe a max current or something and stop you.

So unless the bigger battery wheel has a different firmware, it rides the same til the moment you overlean (or not).

[houseofjob]

8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Not more power/torque. Just less voltage drop.

More battery cells don't matter on EUCs unless you get into a regime where the voltage drop on the smaller battery would cause an overlean but the bigger battery would make it. But wheel behavior won't be influenced by the battery size, the firmware decides that.

Maybe for scooters it's different. Maybe scooters suck as much juice out of the battery as they can. Then naturally bigger batteries would lead to a more powerful scooter. But it can't work like that on EUCs. You'd faceplant as soon as you reach the limit. So the firmware has to consider the voltage drop and maybe a max current or something and stop you.

So unless the bigger battery wheel has a different firmware, it rides the same til the moment you overlean (or not).

Ah ok thanks, don't profess to be the authority on this.

And you remind me, part of their DIY hacks  (namely the crazy Singaporean escooter enthusiasts) are apparently to over Voltage the battery to within Max of the controller spec, and mod the BMS to raise the amp handling, with the more cells, etc.

Sounds pretty wild. Is it true that these 100V Gotway boards are technically don't the same thing, upV from nominal spec?

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, wheelr said:

I could be wrong but I believe there is a 100v 1230wh version. You know the one @Mrd777  got. Now @buell47 is going to be really mad.

That's what I said (in the message you are replying to). I quote, "There is only one Plus model made. There is the 84-volt Nikola and the 100-volt Nikola. Then there are the Plus models of the 100-volt Gotway wheels, which have the higher battery capacity".

What @Mrd777 bought was not a Plus model but the base 100-volt Nikola.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Marty Backe

[meepmeepmayer]

3 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Ah ok thanks, don't profess to be the authority on this.

I'm not either. I just wanted to prevent a common misconception: Adding more batteries to a wheel does not make it stronger/faster/different. It rides exactly the same (you just run into its limits later).

3 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Sounds pretty wild. Is it true that these 100V Gotway boards are technically don't the same thing, upV from nominal spec?

I have no idea. The Nikola 100V board has different parts (stronger capacitors) and isn't just the same board overvolted. But I have no idea if boards are specifically built for a voltage or can be used with any voltage that doesn't break it.

[houseofjob]

3 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'm not either. I just wanted to prevent a common misconception: Adding more batteries to a wheel does not make it stronger/faster/different. It rides exactly the same (you just run into its limits later).

Ah yes, that's why I put the parenthesis part. 

I guess when you're trying to reach near 100kph+ speed on over-volted escooters, the voltage sag is so much, that more cells is effectively more power (but not really).

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

19 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I think they are about the same. The 16x is slightly more maneuverable but not enough choose one over the other.  I do like  better padding the16x has.  Trolley handle is better and the speakers are better also.  But the Nikola  was much easier to unlock and get going. 10 times easier.  I would really say in my limited opinion that they are both very equal. 

In short for me, if I'm unhappy with the 16X, there is no reason to buy any nikola? (top speed is not important) 

So all that remains is to wait for a new model. 

[wheelr]

13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

That's what I said (in the message you are replying to). I quote, "There is only one Plus model made. There is the 84-volt Nikola and the 100-volt Nikola. Then there are the Plus models of the 100-volt Gotway wheels, which have the higher battery capacity".

What @Mrd777 bought was not a Plus model but the base 100-volt Nikola.

Oh I see, I thought the Plus designation was for the 100v(s). Thanks for clearing that up for me (so confusing).

[Marty Backe]

18 minutes ago, wheelr said:

Oh I see, I thought the Plus designation was for the 100v(s). Thanks for clearing that up for me (so confusing).

It is confusing. Gotway has always made so many different versions.

And now (thanks @meepmeepmayer) I'm think Plus isn't only relegated to the 100-volt models. I guess Plus really refers to the extra large battery versions of each wheel. So there's the Plus base model (2100wh) and the Plus 100-volt (1845wh).

[Patton250]

28 minutes ago, buell47 said:

In short for me, if I'm unhappy with the 16X, there is no reason to buy any nikola? (top speed is not important) 

So all that remains is to wait for a new model. 

There is no way you will be unhappy with either the 16X or Nikola. Both ride like a dream. 

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

That's what I said (in the message you are replying to). I quote, "There is only one Plus model made. There is the 84-volt Nikola and the 100-volt Nikola. Then there are the Plus models of the 100-volt Gotway wheels, which have the higher battery capacity".

So to be clear, these are our Nikola options:

• Nikola 84v
• Nikola 84v Plus (2100wh)
• Nikola 100v
• Nikola 100v Plus (1845wh)

Edited July 30, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Marty Backe]

16 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

There is no way you will be unhappy with either the 16X or Nikola. Both ride like a dream. 

@buell47, I've never ridden two different wheels that feel the same. I'll be very surprised if the Nikola feels just like the Nikola. They may both ride like a dream but I have to believe they ride differently.

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

So to be clear, these are our Nikola options:

• Nikola 84v
• Nikola 100v
• Nikola 100v Plus (more batteries, thus more range?)

and

• Nikola 84v Plus (2100wh)

[meepmeepmayer]

There's 2 Nikola versions. 84V or 100V. Both come in various battery sizes. 1845Wh or 1230Wh for the 100V, and 1600Wh or 2100Wh (or 650 or 800 or 1300Wh) for the 84V. Some of those may or may not be called "Plus". Maybe "Plus" means the black+carbon look, maybe it means the biggest battery of each 84V or 100V, maybe only the 100V, who knows.

[Patton250]

13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

@buell47, I've never ridden two different wheels that feel the same. I'll be very surprised if the Nikola feels just like the Nikola. They may both ride like a dream but I have to believe they ride differently.

 In my opinion they ride very similar.  Both are extremely stable and have excellent acceleration and deceleration. The 16X is a little bit more agile like the 18XL but not enough to say it’s massively different from the Nikola.  I think the 18XL and 16s ride overall much different than the 16X and Nikola. My z10  is leagues different than any of these I’m talking about.  Out of the eight wheels I own the 16X and Nikola ride most alike to me and are the most comfortable and smooth. The Nikola feels a little thicker even without the pads.  But to me the pads were remarkably annoying so I took them off anyway. 

I guess Marty what I’m saying is the ride seems very similar to me. There are still riding differences of course so Im not calling them identical.  Just similar.  I hope this clarifies. 

[wheelr]

@Marty Backe Have you decided between the 100v + and the 84v ++? or will you be sticking with your current 84v? 

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 In my opinion they ride very similar.  Both are extremely stable and have excellent acceleration and deceleration. The 16X is a little bit more agile like the 18XL but not enough to say it’s massively different from the Nikola.  I think the 18XL and 16s ride overall much different than the 16X and Nikola. My z10  is leagues different than any of these I’m talking about.  Out of the eight wheels I own the 16X and Nikola ride most alike to me and are the most comfortable and smooth. The Nikola feels a little thicker even without the pads.  But to me the pads were remarkably annoying so I took them off anyway. 

I guess Marty what I’m saying is the ride seems very similar to me. There are still riding differences of course so Im not calling them identical.  Just similar.  I hope this clarifies. 

So aesthetics aside, you'd flip a coin as to which one you would prefer to ride. Of course there's always the annoying speed throttling that kicks in at 25%. I assume that's still there? 

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, wheelr said:

@Marty Backe Have you decided between the 100v + and the 84v ++? or will you be sticking with your current 84v? 

I need to do more tests. The Nikola Plus remains idle because I don't have a charger for it 

If I owned neither wheel there is zero doubt that I would buy the 100-volt version.

But I'm certainly not getting rid of my 84-volt wheel. I do have to decide whether to get a 100-volt Plus or the 2100wh 84-volt wheel.

[chrisjunlee]

8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I need to do more tests. The Nikola Plus remains idle because I don't have a charger for it 

You could just charge it with your 84v charger to charge it to 84v right? Not sure what % that corresponds to in a 100v wheel.

[Patton250]

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

So aesthetics aside, you'd flip a coin as to which one you would prefer to ride. Of course there's always the annoying speed throttling that kicks in at 25%. I assume that's still there? 

 No the speed throttling is gone. In fact the warning announcement is gone as well as all the beeps from the alarms are gone. No more tilt back. I can also bring this thing up to 31 mph now. All of those things are gone.  Before they were gone yes they were incredibly annoying. 

 If I would’ve flip a coin and it was heads the Nikola and tails the 16X I wouldn’t care how it landed.  Aesthetics aside. 

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 No the speed throttling is gone. In fact the warning announcement is gone as well as all the beeps from the alarms are gone. No more tilt back. I can also bring this thing up to 31 mph now. All of those things are gone.  Before they were gone yes they were incredibly annoying. 

 If I would’ve flip a coin and it was heads the Nikola and tails the 16X I wouldn’t care how it landed.  Aesthetics aside. 

Just to be clear, I'm talking about speed throttling at 25% battery. I'd be shocked if KingSong didn't also implement that on the 16X.

[Patton250]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

Just to be clear, I'm talking about speed throttling at 25% battery. I'd be shocked if KingSong didn't also implement that on the 16X.

 Oh sorry. You are correct. It slowed down significantly once I got down to 25%. Of course since the battery percentage thing doesn’t work on the app I didn’t know I was down to 25% until it started throttling back. LOL

 And apparently it gets worse as you get lower. I ran that thing down until it about fell over. The last couple of minutes it would go very slow and it repeatedly verbally announced for me to get it charged. 

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 Oh sorry. You are correct. It slowed down significantly once I got down to 25%. Of course since the battery percentage thing doesn’t work on the app I didn’t know I was down to 25% until it started throttling back. LOL

 And apparently it gets worse as you get lower. I ran that thing down until it about fell over. The last couple of minutes it would go very slow and it repeatedly verbally announced for me to get it charged. 

Yes, that is the infamous KingSong throttling that Gotway does not do. It's all about being ultra conservative for KingSong, but that can be annoying for more performance minded folks.

This is why there is a large contingent of folks who will never buy KingSong.

[Marty Backe]

17 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

You could just charge it with your 84v charger to charge it to 84v right? Not sure what % that corresponds to in a 100v wheel.

That's not how it works. For one thing, the 100-volt wheels use a 5-pin charge port. And at 84-volts, the 100-volt models might consider that 0-percent battery 

[Patton250]

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Yes, that is the infamous KingSong throttling that Gotway does not do. It's all about being ultra conservative for KingSong, but that can be annoying for more performance minded folks.

This is why there is a large contingent of folks who will never buy KingSong.

Oh. Ok. To each his own.  I like them both.  I will have to wait and see if I ever get annoyed by having a low battery. It only annoyed me the first time because I didn’t know it was low.  So in the meantime I guess I’ll just own both brands. Lol

 Does the Z 10 throttle back also or only king song? 

[Dzlchef]

6 hours ago, Unventor said:

Brave move... Do you have a log of it? Interested to see how much amps the wheel use on such a move, and the generating force from breaking. 

I didn't log anything but I can repeat tonight and track through EUC World and post.