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off road wheel. What to get


ir_fuel

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I currently "daily" a Z10, which I would like to keep in a nice looking condition, so I have no intention in bashing it up or uglifying it with heaps of covering. My MCM5 is up for sale because it's gathering dust, but I would like to get a wheel to do off-roading/mtb trails/bmx tracks (I did some of that with my Inmotion V8 with its tiny motor, I can only imagine how much better it would go with a more recent wheel. The Inmotion had a cover so it was protected when doing this). As this implies lots of spills I would need to protect the wheel with padding (thinking of sticking neoprene unless our NZ friend happens to release a cover for the model I would get) which would destroy its looks anyway.

There will also be some walking involved since some parts will be just too complicated to ride, so a wheel without a trolley handle is absolutely not an option.

Range isn't really an issue (my Z10 gives me plenty of range, and that battery is 1000Wh if I recall correctly), so no need for 2100Wh battery packs.

100V/84V? I think it's a lot of blabla for not a lot of difference in real life, so doesn't matter either.

Top speed isn't a dealbreaker. The max I do with my Z10 is 28mph, and that's really the absolute max, I normally stay around 25mph. Moreover, off roading at +25mph would already be quite impressive (or suicidal). Of course I wouldn't get a wheel with a max speed of 19mph, but if it can do 31 or 38 mph vmax is irrelevant.

Even with padding the wheel will probably take a beating, so the sturdier the better, and if stuff breaks (casing, if I start breaking pedals and axles it might be time to calm down) it would be good if it's easily repairable, but I don't think this will be a number one priority.

So now the question is, what to get?

The one with the best track record: Gotway MSX

The one with the nicest finish and trolley: KingSong K18XL (or L ?)

The new kid on the block: KS16X

I included the last one because it also seems to have good off road abilities on paper, and although the tire has a lower diameter this might also mean that it gives it more torque at the wheel, with a motor with the same power as its bigger siblings. The preproduction test done by @Kuji Rolls showed some promising off road too. Not really worried about the wobbling issue currently being solved.

As the wheel will suffer (I presume) looks are not taken into account in the decision making process.

Geared up I weigh 165lbs.

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MSX without a question.. there are many ways not obvious that it is the best off roading wheel.. the 100V is useless unless you want more top speed.. which is already like 60+ on the 84V.. which you obviously dont.. the regular 84V 1600 with an offroad tire will likely not be beat anytime soon.. 16X would be my second choice as yes it will have more torque, but it will not be as smooth for off roading, not to mention the MSX' very high and very angled pedals, best for off road, it also has extremely good heat management which could be a factor.. if money is no issue you could also get some nikola pedals for it, they now have grip tape and are much better than the msuper pedals.. i think if you get power pads and the MSX thats the best, and even better if you swap out the factory tire for a dedicated off road one.. KS18XL is probably the worst option here for off roading its best suited as a city commuter for longer distances..

between the MSX and the 16X no doubt the 16X will be more robust, but they are both pretty damn tough.. 16X has enough torque that a lighter person like you wouldnt need power pads like you would probably want on the MSX and its pedals are larger.. but these are both things that can be upgraded for a small price on the MSX.. of course 16X trolley is far superior to MSX but thats not to say its not usable its just not as easy to control.. also depending on where you get it the MSX can be a lot cheaper than the 16X, mitigating the cost of any potential upgrades. of course any of these wheels can do off roading perfectly well so any you choose would work fine and definitely be a tremendous step up from the V8 or MCM5.. but the absolute best is a different answer, without a doubt i would say MSX

Edited by Rywokast
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I drive with my V8 to 95% even only offroad and put all my hope on the 16X. At least the theoretical data sounds perfect. Power, torque, tyre size, pedal height, trolley bar and a housing that is not so sensitive to scratches at the side. I don't think there is anything better for real off-road driving at the moment!

 

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7 hours ago, Rywokast said:

KS18XL is probably the worst option here for off roading its best suited as a city commuter for longer distances..

Interesting you say that, because I checked SpeedyFeet's reviews (the long term ones) and they were pretty positive about the off roading abilities of the KS18XL.

e.g.

 

7 hours ago, Rywokast said:

 also depending on where you get it the MSX can be a lot cheaper than the 16X,

The shops around me (would prefer not to buy directly from China for obvious reasons) have both wheels at the same price. SpeedyFeet for instance it's exactly the same. 18XL is more expensive, yes.

 

7 hours ago, Rywokast said:

but the absolute best is a different answer, without a doubt i would say MSX

TBH I was hesitating between the 16X and the MSX, but after checking some KS18XL reviews it really comes in the picture too. And I can get a nice cover for it :p

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51 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Interesting you say that, because I checked SpeedyFeet's reviews (the long term ones) and they were pretty positive about the off roading abilities of the KS18XL.

e.g.

 

The shops around me (would prefer not to buy directly from China for obvious reasons) have both wheels at the same price. SpeedyFeet for instance it's exactly the same. 18XL is more expensive, yes.

 

TBH I was hesitating between the 16X and the MSX, but after checking some KS18XL reviews it really comes in the picture too. And I can get a nice cover for it :p

i said it was the worst here, i didnt say it was bad :P it is less suited for trails because of the smaller tire, less raw power, and relatively flat pedals.. but it is a much better all rounder if you dont plan to exclusively use it for off roading. i do generally recommend the 18XL over the MSX but would not do so in reference to strictly off roading.. yes the cover for the ks wheels are excellent and will keep your wheel looking new,, i didnt consider it because you were the one who said you dont care about looks haha but the protective cover could also potentially mitigate some non surface damage as well.. i think the best videos to watch on them are chooch techs videos on youtube, he does a lot of off roading and you can get his opinion on both in depth on his channel

Edited by Rywokast
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1 hour ago, buell47 said:

I drive with my V8 to 95% even only offroad and put all my hope on the 16X. At least the theoretical data sounds perfect. Power, torque, tyre size, pedal height, trolley bar and a housing that is not so sensitive to scratches at the side. I don't think there is anything better for real off-road driving at the moment!

 

entirely depends what type.. the MSX has the largest tire next to the monster so there will always be some things it can do that would buck you off something else, the MSX can also give you more power.. it all depends for fairly nice trails and nothing super extreme no doubt the 16X would be better simply because its easier to control with more torque.. but if its super rough off roading going over logs and large bumps constantly or uneven gravel etc the much bigger tire of the MSX coupled with the angled high pedals locking you in and allowing you enough power to conquer more than any other machine will.. its entirely situational, i personally would take the 18XL over any of these but thats for my specific use scenario

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10 hours ago, Rywokast said:

the regular 84V 1600 with an offroad tire will likely not be beat anytime soon.

Im 80% off road riding and Since changing the tire on my MSX it has become a truly awsome off road wheel.

But saying that 16X is going to my next wheel 

 

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I'm also not sure that tire width is really that big of a factor. If it were why isn't the Z10 the offroad wheel of choice? I haven't seen it do anything with its wide tire that any other wheel can't do, off road. I think compound and profile are more important.

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1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

I'm also not sure that tire width is really that big of a factor. If it were why isn't the Z10 the offroad wheel of choice? I haven't seen it do anything with its wide tire that any other wheel can't do, off road. I think compound and profile are more important.

Yeah, Z10 has the widest tire and the Monster has the largest diameter. Yet I don't see anybody recommending them as best off roaders. Neither would I. There's more to off roading than tire size, although I would say MSX is probably the most optimal, although I don't see 18XL being that much different. But it depends on the riding style, rider's size/weight, what you like, etc. If you just want to ram through difficult trails, then it's best to just go over the stones and roots. A bigger diameter will help with that. But some riders like to have more fun and go around stuff, then a 16X would be great fun being more nimble and peppy. 

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15 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

if we compare default tires, according to Chooch the KS18XL is better suited for off road riding than the MSX's. He said it's really noticable.

what i thought he said the opposite?? what could possibly make it better? they have very similar tread but the msx is bigger and softer, no? maybe i got it backwards but i dont think so that seems to also be most peoples go to off roading wheel and better suited to it.. i cant think of one advantage the 18XL could have over it for rough terrain

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17 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

I'm also not sure that tire width is really that big of a factor. If it were why isn't the Z10 the offroad wheel of choice? I haven't seen it do anything with its wide tire that any other wheel can't do, off road. I think compound and profile are more important.

its not the width so much as it is the depth from the rim to the edge of the tire which equates to how much it can absorb/how soft the ride feels.. tbh i have no idea about the z10, never had any interest in it so i couldnt say.. isnt the tire on it really hard though too? maybe the z10 is just not nimble enough to navigate trails at any speed?

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3 hours ago, Rywokast said:

what i thought he said the opposite?? what could possibly make it better? they have very similar tread but the msx is bigger and softer, no? maybe i got it backwards but i dont think so that seems to also be most peoples go to off roading wheel and better suited to it.. i cant think of one advantage the 18XL could have over it for rough terrain

At one point 18L had different tire with better grip. Now they are the same and both are quite slippery. 

Depending on riding style, some might find 18XL more nimble and reactive which might help going around obstacles. I generally agree MSX is better for rough terrain but the difference is not huge. The 18XL is very good off roader also, maybe the second best. Chooch is a very small guy and for him the narrower and slightly more nimble wheel might work better. 

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5 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

At one point 18L had different tire with better grip. Now they are the same and both are quite slippery. 

Depending on riding style, some might find 18XL more nimble and reactive which might help going around obstacles. I generally agree MSX is better for rough terrain but the difference is not huge. The 18XL is very good off roader also, maybe the second best. Chooch is a very small guy and for him the narrower and slightly more nimble wheel might work better. 

aah ok thats good to know.. yea no doubt i think he said he was 120 lbs or 130 lbs or something so its understandable that he would have a personal preference towards the thinner more nimble wheel

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19 hours ago, Gaz Bon said:

That my friend is the Shinko SR241 2.75-14

Modified to fit MSX 

I seem to remember you shaved the side knobbies on the tyre? Is that right? Do you get any rubbing from weight transfer?

I fitted this Motorcross tyre  to my MSV3. It felt incredible on rough loose trails but the responsiveness dropped due to the spaced out knobbies.

Your Shinko knobbies look closer together so I presume more responsive? Although it does look quite flat rather than the curved profile of the stock tyre. Any loss in response, negative impact in steering?

I’d like to fit another on my MSX but loving the squishy stock tyre on the dry trails too much. Will think again when Winter hits. 

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1 hour ago, RoCan said:

I seem to remember you shaved the side knobbies on the tyre? Is that right? Do you get any rubbing from weight transfer?

I fitted this Motorcross tyre  to my MSV3. It felt incredible on rough loose trails but the responsiveness dropped due to the spaced out knobbies.

Your Shinko knobbies look closer together so I presume more responsive? Although it does look quite flat rather than the curved profile of the stock tyre. Any loss in response, negative impact in steering?

I’d like to fit another on my MSX but loving the squishy stock tyre on the dry trails too much. Will think again when Winter hits. 

I do get a little rubbing occasionally

Also when stones get trapped between the knobs it get noisy 

Took a few Kms to get used on tarmac  but now I don't notice the difference 

Can take turns at 40 plus kph like on the old tire no worries

Running @ 19/20 psi  all the time but as mentioned 80% off road

PS there is also a Shinko SR 244 which might be worth a look

i went with the SR241 which was the cheaper option in case it dident work out

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On 7/30/2019 at 1:54 AM, ir_fuel said:

I currently "daily" a Z10, which I would like to keep in a nice looking condition, so I have no intention in bashing it up or uglifying it with heaps of covering. My MCM5 is up for sale because it's gathering dust, but I would like to get a wheel to do off-roading/mtb trails/bmx tracks (I did some of that with my Inmotion V8 with its tiny motor, I can only imagine how much better it would go with a more recent wheel. The Inmotion had a cover so it was protected when doing this). As this implies lots of spills I would need to protect the wheel with padding (thinking of sticking neoprene unless our NZ friend happens to release a cover for the model I would get) which would destroy its looks anyway.

There will also be some walking involved since some parts will be just too complicated to ride, so a wheel without a trolley handle is absolutely not an option.

Range isn't really an issue (my Z10 gives me plenty of range, and that battery is 1000Wh if I recall correctly), so no need for 2100Wh battery packs.

Geared up I weigh 165lbs.

Where did the MCM5 fail you in regards to off-roading? Both the MCM5 and Z10 are on my list of new wheels to buy! How do you feel the Z10 behaves off-road and on BMX tracks especially compared to the MCM5. Can you create leverage to get it up and down hills?

My riding weight is 145 lbs and I ride an MSX 84v 1600Wh. For off-roading I like to have the PSI around 19 so that the huge tyre can but put to use and deform around obstacles. I can ride over large roots even on inclines. Riding down steep hills which have loose rocks cause me trouble though as it is hard to constantly apply braking power, choosing the best lines and navigating at the same time. Using something like EUC powerpads would only solve the problem in one direction but not the other. The default pads are better as you can squeeze/squish backwards AND forwards. Or make your own, slaughter a yoga mat and cover up the wheel. Wheel clearance on the MSX is a blessing. Branches or gravel don't get stuck up in the well which can happen with other wheels.

I have done a bit of off-roading with a V10 and it was veeeeeery good. Easier to manage on hills as well as I can't create the proper leverage to manipulate the MSX in some scenarios and have to bail. My MSX has taken quite a beating after 4300km but it still rides like new. A small crack in the shell near one of the screws. Once I rode over a branch and it chewed it up and spat it out. A piece of plastic at the back was sticking out so I squeezed it back in. Just a flesh wound. Both have high pedals but the MSX gives better clearance and control. My friend on his Nikola can do anything I can do on the MSX... and more. He is a bit more fearless though and has more experience as a rider.

Having high pedals is great and like others have said it is like riding on a petal stool. :efee612b4b:

 

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