16X or Nikola?

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Did you order a 16X Marty?

No. At this point it's doubtful that I'll own one. Maybe I'll change my mind if I can ever test one, which is looking to be October 

[Dave U]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

No. At this point it's doubtful that I'll own one. Maybe I'll change my mind if I can ever test one, which is looking to be October 

They're not sending you a tester until they run out of 16X units. Then you could do the Over Heat Hill!  , just saying 

[Unventor]

6 hours ago, scotchtape said:

Once you get used to it the current "higher" speeds don't feel very fast on open smooth pavement. I normally ride 20-40, but when you want to go fast it's nice to have the option!

From what I seen people collating of rules from different places, there are not many places you are allowed to go 70kmh on an EUC. 

Now with the force you are using at that speed are huge compared to let's say 40kmh. 

So when something unexpected happens it happens very fast. It can be anything, car turning not using indicators, or even doing an illegal turn or running red lights. Or an animal excaping/crossing the road you ride right infront of you. 

My point is the contact point of 1 wheel can only do so much in terms of breaking, turning so the higher speed puts not only you at higher risk but all your surroundings too. 

Too me going that fast in public is nothing but plain stupidity. But this not only the rider but also the brand that makes it possible.

Now I expect that someone will wave the freedom of choice flag... I don’t buy that one bit. You are in public traffic, not on a rase track. Any incident caused are bound to bring bad PR to the EUC community. That means if FoC flag you basically saying I don't give s... about anyone else (and yourself). 

Now there will always be stupid people around, but faciltietating stupit actions is something else. 

[an5vf]

7 hours ago, Dave U said:

Correct, 84V - 2100wh battery - 2000W motor

On the ewheels site it says the 84v has a 1600wh battery and the 100v has an 1845wh battery. Is there a different version out there?

[meepmeepmayer]

40 minutes ago, an5vf said:

On the ewheels site it says the 84v has a 1600wh battery and the 100v has an 1845wh battery. Is there a different version out there?

There's also a 2100Wh 84V Nikola.

The Nikola is in a bit of state of flux now and things are unclear.

They started with the default 1600Wh design with one battery pack on each side and the board in a huge top cavity. For the 100V 1845Wh version, they put the board on the side (still enough unused space there) and used the now free top space for a third battery (all identical batteries at 615Wh each). The 100V "Plus" is also all-black with carbon look, instead of having the white stripes, and internally the main shell is now made of black plastic instead white plastic. See some pictures here for example: https://ecodrift.ru/2019/07/13/my-trip-to-gotway-manufactory/

Nobody has seen the 2100Wh 84V yet, but it will most likely also have the board on the side and a third ~500Wh battery (same as in the Tesla, another standard 800Wh pack wouldn't fit) in the top space. It may or may not have the "Plus" look either. Eagerly awaiting @Dave U's Nikola to finally get some answers!

( Maybe even the future 160Wh Nikolas will get the Plus look? No idea!)

Not sure when the 16X arrives, but if it's around the same time your Nikola would ship, you can still consider switching if you have doubts. Much like the 100V 1845Wh Nikola, the 2100Wh 84V will probably be overpriced compared to the 1600Wh. So unless you absolutely want the range, the 1600Wh makes more sense.

[an5vf]

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Not sure when the 16X arrives, but if it's around the same time your Nikola would ship, you can still consider switching if you have doubts. 

Thanks for the clarification @meepmeepmayer! It was getting very confusing. My Nikola ships out late next week I believe.  Jason mentioned that ~20% of the next batch of 16x have been pre-ordered and from the descriptions on the eWheels site it seems like the next batch of 16x will ship out late Sept/early Oct. I don't think there is real chance I could get one anytime soon haha

[Dave U]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There's also a 2100Wh 84V Nikola.

The Nikola is in a bit of state of flux now and things are unclear.

They started with the default 1600Wh design with one battery pack on each side and the board in a huge top cavity. For the 100V 1845Wh version, they put the board on the side (still enough unused space there) and used the now free top space for a third battery (all identical batteries at 615Wh each). The 100V "Plus" is also all-black with carbon look, instead of having the white stripes, and internally the main shell is now made of black plastic instead white plastic. See some pictures here for example: https://ecodrift.ru/2019/07/13/my-trip-to-gotway-manufactory/

Nobody has seen the 2100Wh 84V yet, but it will most likely also have the board on the side and a third ~500Wh battery (same as in the Tesla, another standard 800Wh pack wouldn't fit) in the top space. It may or may not have the "Plus" look either. Eagerly awaiting @Dave U's Nikola to finally get some answers!

( Maybe even the future 160Wh Nikolas will get the Plus look? No idea!)

Not sure when the 16X arrives, but if it's around the same time your Nikola would ship, you can still consider switching if you have doubts. Much like the 100V 1845Wh Nikola, the 2100Wh 84V will probably be overpriced compared to the 1600Wh. So unless you absolutely want the range, the 1600Wh makes more sense.

Thank you Meep for the well thought out explanation. The wheel is running me $2550, special order. I should be getting my wheel on the 3rd week of August, Hopefully if all goes as planned. 

[Unventor]

15 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The problem with the 16X is nobody owns one. All we can talk about and say is the best wheel that currently exists, is the Nikola. Non-released wheels are hypothetical. The Nikola has been available for months.

Likewise you having a hard time seeing you owning a KS16X, I have an even harder time seeing me riding (note here: I didn't even write owning) a Nikola. The reason you see in my post I linked. 

Anyway I wish you happy moments on the Nikola. This one of those moments where I happy admit we agree to disagree about choices made. 

In the end it comes down to how 2 brands wants to be precieve and the choices they make to accomplished this. I do hope @US69 will take this point back to KS. My  to them.

As for GW who know what they do or think they are not present here, nor communicate to their users as I know of. 

[meepmeepmayer]

19 minutes ago, Dave U said:

The wheel is running me $2550, special order.

Same price as the 100V 1845Wh. That was to be expected.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

59 minutes ago, Unventor said:

As for GW who know what they do or think they are not present here, nor communicate to their users as I know of. 

Totally agree, that's a part that I don't like too. 

[Nils]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

Likewise you having a hard time seeing you owning a KS16X, I have an even harder time seeing me riding (note here: I didn't even write owning) a Nikola. The reason you see in my post I linked.

Aww come on now.. When you get to Stockholm we'll have with some luck both the 84V and 100V plus Nikolas in place, who in their right mind could say no to that? 

[Nils]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

As for GW who know what they do or think they are not present here, nor communicate to their users as I know of. 

 

7 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Totally agree, that's a part that I don't like too. 

I agree, but that's a unique selling point of KS as far as I'm concerned. Inmotion have some communication going on, but their presence here at this forum has been lackluster, at least during the time of the V10F issues.

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Nils said:

Aww come on now.. When you get to Stockholm we'll have with some luck both the 84V and 100V plus Nikolas in place, who in their right mind could say no to that? 

Well I am one... 

I don’t want to scratch that shinny wheel of yours. 😉

But we shall see. As for the 100v I don't see the point as I rarely ride above 35kmh these days in area I am very familiar with on a wheel I know well. 

My incomming KS16X is something I need to get used to, then I might ride same speeds but I can't see myself going faster than 40kmh. The risks at high speeds is not worth to me. 

And legal speed limit is after all 20kmh. Going so much faster is not worth it to me. But then again that is me, as EUC riding is very beneficial to my arthritis and to kind of medical workout, not interested in put me on the police radar, Heya let's have a closer look at that thing. 

I am not by any means an angel, but there is time and place for anything, and a balance of risk. 

[US69]

On 7/23/2019 at 11:00 PM, Unventor said:

Well I am one... 

I don’t want to scratch that shinny wheel of yours. 😉

But we shall see. As for the 100v I don't see the point as I rarely ride above 35kmh these days in area I am very familiar with on a wheel I know well. 

My incomming KS16X is something I need to get used to, then I might ride same speeds but I can't see myself going faster than 40kmh. The risks at high speeds is not worth to me. 

And legal speed limit is after all 20kmh. Going so much faster is not worth it to me. But then again that is me, as EUC riding is very beneficial to my arthritis and to kind of medical workout, not interested in put me on the police radar, Heya let's have a closer look at that thing. 

I am not by any means an angel, but there is time and place for anything, and a balance of risk. 

Just saying:

 

Thank God the Needs and opinions of the People are different :-)

In no way can imagine to drive a Nikola, and yes, i have tested one in the meantime!

The case is gnarky cheap plastic, i dont like the trolley and carrying it is a total mess. 

And as carrying it and trolleying it is one of the most important use cases as i am daily commuting with Trams and Trains and busses.

Thats no Bashing...yes, it absolutly drives nice!!!, no Question About it, but this -for me- just is not enough.

 

And for the Speed: 50kmh are way more than enough for me, as i seldom touch 40kmh....so no Need for a 60 or even 70kmh Wheel.

And to be honest: That are all still self balancing vehicles! What i mean is they are definitly not made for high Speeds, as the braking relies on recuperation and thats just not enough to make a fast stop in case of emergency!

Also, (Talking About Europe) because of the Brakes and the missing redundancy probably there will be NEVER EVER a legalization for EUC/selfbalancers which are faster than 25-40kmh!

And i have to say, i really understand it.....

 

Just My 2 Cents :-)

[Nils]

5 hours ago, US69 said:

Also, (Talking About Europe) because of the Brakes and the missing redundancy probably there will be NEVER EVER a legalization for EUC/selfbalancers which are faster than 25-40kmh!

I believe you might be too charitable when it comes to the EU. From my understanding (very possible flawed) the draft currently on the table would be prEN 17128, centered on 25 km/h as the max speed, in addition of course to requiring a lot more of stringent tests for certification. 40 km/h restrictions/allowances  in the EU generally unfortunately seems like a pipe dream. Now, 25 km/h, who would actually want that? In addition, I think it's only Ninebot that has made any attempts at certifications for their machines. In short, I don't see a great future in the EU generally for modern wheels  from a legal perspective, but perhaps individual countries can have more allowing legislation.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Nils

[Unventor]

53 minutes ago, Nils said:

Now, 25 km/h, who would actually want that?

Well it is better than 20kmh. 

Personally I prefer some sort of licensing and mandatory protection with a 40kmh limit. Or like a EU moped. 

[Nils]

1 minute ago, Unventor said:

Well it is better than 20kmh. 

Personally I prefer some sort of licensing and mandatory protection with a 40kmh limit. Or like a EU moped. 

Well there are degrees in hell, but 20 and 25 km/h are both low enough that it makes no practical difference. I haven't read the full draft I mentioned earlier (thank you paywalls!) but going from my earlier experiences here in Sweden these aren't likely to be just speed limits, but rather manufacturing limits (i.e. machines should not be constructed to or allow to exceed the stated speed).

And agreed, I'd rather have some kind of license thing if that's what it takes.

[Unventor]

43 minutes ago, Nils said:

And agreed, I'd rather have some kind of license thing if that's what it takes.

This way it might open up for insurance options. But also allow people who can behave good in traffic some level of freedom. But people using an asshat rather the inside of the head, can be stripped of the benefits. Yes a person might ride anyway, but legal punishment will be more severe. 

To me it must be more safe people invest in an EUC and learn to use it both in practice and understanding the power at their feet. Rather than people hiring an e-scooter not know how it behaves, dynamics nor wearing and protection, and may afterca night out, riding in the dark drunk. 

Since police in big cities in Denmark started a campaign, handing out tickets for drunk drivers on e-scooters about a month back they cought 50+ people. Here it is classed as severe as riding anything with an motor drunk, penalty 2000 dkr/300$/270€ first time. A second offence 2x, third offence prison time.

Some got a rude awakening. 

So far EUC have not caused headlines yet in Denmark or Sweden as I know of. 

So future for wheels as Nikola or KS16X might not be superbright in EU. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Unventor

[Patton250]

 Licensing ??????  Like government doesn’t have enough power and watching eyes over our lives. Good grief. 

 

 

[Unventor]

52 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

 Licensing ??????  Like government doesn’t have enough power and watching eyes over our lives. Good grief. 

 

 

It is better than being made illegal.

In the end it comes down to lawmakers in general are conservative, making laws from what they know not how things could be. 

Again for public traffic can work, people need to abide to a set of rules all knows. 

If you don't do that you will be a lethal risk to all others around you. No matter what you think of government and its power. 

[who_the]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

It is better than being made illegal.

We agree with this 100%.

[Patton250]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

It is better than being made illegal.

In the end it comes down to lawmakers in general are conservative, making laws from what they know not how things could be. 

Again for public traffic can work, people need to abide to a set of rules all knows. 

If you don't do that you will be a lethal risk to all others around you. No matter what you think of government and its power. 

 Well in my observations just about everything government touches they destroy and mess up. And in our country government doesn’t have any power except for what the people give them. :-) 

 

 If you want government to regulate your hobby then that’s your business. I’m sure they’ll figure out someway to put a nice tax on it. :-) 

 

 I have a place that happens quite often we in America call California. 

[US69]

18 hours ago, Nils said:

I believe you might be too charitable when it comes to the EU. From my understanding (very possible flawed) the draft currently on the table would be prEN 17128, centered on 25 km/h as the max speed, in addition of course to requiring a lot more of stringent tests for certification. 40 km/h restrictions/allowances  in the EU generally unfortunately seems like a pipe dream. Now, 25 km/h, who would actually want that? In addition, I think it's only Ninebot that has made any attempts at certifications for their machines. In short, I don't see a great future in the EU generally for modern wheels  from a legal perspective, but perhaps individual countries can have more allowing legislation.

I know that 40kmh is much to optimistic...but i didnt want to be to depressive :-)

I guess in the Long run (thinking About next 5-10 years) micromobility will win and get it's Chance.

So when we have Pedelecs/e-bikes now, withour any reglementation up to 25kmh, AND also e-bikes upt to 40kmh (with insurrance), i thought that where some numbers that can -in longer perspektive- work for us, too.

But yeah, in the Moment it is just Looking bad! Here in Germany it was planned that ALL micromobility up to 20kmh would  be allowed from June 2019 on, but unfortunatly only e-Scooters made it through the law process. The law makers feared that Eucs, hoverboards, e-Skatboards where to dangerous for public usage. So getting self Balancers allowed in our Country at all is Pretty much dead.

But who cares?! I am driving anyway  Lately i installed the number-plate that is needed for an e-Scooter 20kmh on my EUC....thinking that some of our cops have no clue About the new rules  (;The self-balancers are mentioned in the e-Scooter law)

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, US69 said:

But who cares?! I am driving anyway 

Only good solution I should also get a fake insurance sticker.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, US69 said:

I know that 40kmh is much to optimistic...but i didnt want to be to depressive :-)

I guess in the Long run (thinking About next 5-10 years) micromobility will win and get it's Chance.

So when we have Pedelecs/e-bikes now, withour any reglementation up to 25kmh, AND also e-bikes upt to 40kmh (with insurrance), i thought that where some numbers that can -in longer perspektive- work for us, too.

But yeah, in the Moment it is just Looking bad! Here in Germany it was planned that ALL micromobility up to 20kmh would  be allowed from June 2019 on, but unfortunatly only e-Scooters made it through the law process. The law makers feared that Eucs, hoverboards, e-Skatboards where to dangerous for public usage. So getting self Balancers allowed in our Country at all is Pretty much dead.

But who cares?! I am driving anyway  Lately i installed the number-plate that is needed for an e-Scooter 20kmh on my EUC....thinking that some of our cops have no clue About the new rules  (;The self-balancers are mentioned in the e-Scooter law)

Government control of our lives makes my head explode. I really feel for you guys in Europe.

Hope your cops remain mostly clueless. And this is another reason you should hope EUCs never become popular (I don't think they will).