UK Law clarification: "They're illegal to ride in public"

[Smoother]

When I am forced to return to the UK I'm going to cut up a well known supermarket "bag for life" and glue it to my wheel, hanging down almost to the ground, complete with functional fabric handles.  When I can't avoid a cop, I'll dismount and grab the handles like I'm walking home with the groceries, might even drop a banana or two down there, or a bottle of JD in case I bump into Queenie in one of her parks.   Not sure how I'll explain the helmet and wrist guards, epilepsy? Pedals? No clue.

and you thought people looked shocked seeking an EUC being ridden for the first time? Imaging seeing someone riding a grocery sack?!?

Edited February 5, 2017 by Smoother

[IPS Malta]

On 13/10/2015 at 11:59 AM, TheBeagler said:

This is a situation where common sense would do both sides a lot of good. We need responsible EUC riders as well as sensible law enforcers. The public statement on the boards is nothing but over the top.

Yes being responsible is very important. I think we really need to pinpoint what arises these legal concerns and find solutions. Most riders are well concerned about safety but maybe some introduction training and stating the common sense (that is not so common sometimes) will help having a safer EUC community globally.

I was thinking about some solutions such as making EUC riders verified (just like taking a car driving license), we promote the idea of EUC being safer and responsible mean of transportation.

Also we need a list of some good practice in riding an EUC such as riding on sidewalks you should stick on the outer sides (avoiding collisions with people coming out of buildings) I never found this list but I am trying to compile it while already mentioning to new riders I train once in a while. Should someone share my ideas maybe we can join forces and work on it.

 

[Luiz]

Lincence plate and insurance.

[IPS Malta]

12 minutes ago, Luiz said:

Lincence plate and insurance.

Do you know of any country who does have that in practice?

We can do RFID License plates I started this on the wheels I released since last year in a way.

[RenaissanceMan]

On 5.3.2017 at 0:01 PM, RenaissanceMan said:

In many countries there are no laws concering the use of EUCs, and even in those that have them, they may not be optimal. So I suggest to involve the EUC community into agreeing on a minimal common subset of sensible rules for the use of EUCs on public grounds. By giving it the official approval of this great EUC Forum's community it could also be cited to our politicians struggling to come up with reasonable rules themselves. It would also show to other road users that we are aware of the many issues and attempt to respond and act in a reasonable manner.

So first, I'd like to find out the main categories involved (eg. technical requirements, rules of conduct, right of way, protection), then converge to a minimal consensus of only the most essential topics. It should be not longer than one page (letter or A4).

An "official EUC charta" of this forum's community would inform the general public what to expect from us strange EUC riders and how to interact with us on public roads. It could also serve to teach politicians what we regard as desirable relations with our environment.

I don't expect everybody to agree on such EUC Code of Honour, nor do I dream of permanent or strict adherence to any such rules (which to certain extend will have to be country specifc), but if we generally advocate an explicitly documented, agreed on and approved minimal set of rules, that might make us more understood and hopefully better respected by the general public.

All right, enough for the opening rant ...

So I'll start off with a list of suggested topics/categories.

1. short introduction on the general characteristics and essential mode of operation of EUCs
2. behavioral rules like max. speeds, right of way, road usage priorities, weather conditions?
3. technical requirements as eg. lights, horn/bell, strap, safe minimal battery charge, maintenance
4. legal aspects (most likely country dependant to a large extent)
5. liabilty of EUC riders, including insurance

What do you feel should be our essential recommendations to each of these (or any other) categories and topics?

Again, all these individual items themselves are not spectacular news to us. However, a consolidated, approved collection of them could help outsiders to better understand and relate to us. The important part would be that we as a community speak with one voice.

 

10 hours ago, IPS Malta said:

Yes being responsible is very important. I think we really need to pinpoint what arises these legal concerns and find solutions. Most riders are well concerned about safety but maybe some introduction training and stating the common sense (that is not so common sometimes) will help having a safer EUC community globally.

I was thinking about some solutions such as making EUC riders verified (just like taking a car driving license), we promote the idea of EUC being safer and responsible mean of transportation.

Also we need a list of some good practice in riding an EUC such as riding on sidewalks you should stick on the outer sides (avoiding collisions with people coming out of buildings) I never found this list but I am trying to compile it while already mentioning to new riders I train once in a while. Should someone share my ideas maybe we can join forces and work on it.

 

Hi @IPS Malta,

I started an attempt to gather a minimal set of rules of conduct for EUC riders a while ago, without much success. But since you are thinking along the same lines, maybe the two of us could give it another try.

Cheers from @RenaissanceMan

[IPS Malta]

4 minutes ago, RenaissanceMan said:

 

Hi @IPS Malta,

I started an attempt to gather a minimal set of rules of conduct for EUC riders a while ago, without much success. But since you are thinking along the same lines, maybe the two of us could give it another try.

Cheers from @RenaissanceMan

I didn't come across this post but yes we are on the same track.

We need to short list EUCs that surely take into consideration and the rider and provide safety measures and ensures protecting the rider more than the wheel. I cannot be set to this task as my opinions may be biased due to my line of business but surely it was something that I always considered when I was choosing my ride.

Secondly we need to consider training and experience. Training should not only include riding time and ability but also possible scenarios and decision making on the roads (and side walks)

Also as we where all born bare naked, I only think that the right of way should belong to pedestrians. Yet cars (and their drivers) prove to be the major decision making in right of way most of the time (due to the fact that they are surrounded by a strong cabin and gives a feeling of safety that some burst in wreck-less driving) . Taking all into consideration personally I always give right of way to anyone and anything everywhere. We all need minimal protection on an everyday ride. Personally I'm always wearing wrist protection and a helmet. We definitely have to signal all the time our direction to pedestrians and vehicles while also keep alert on all traffic around you all the time while obeying all the rules of the road.

We need ideas how we can also promote this awareness and maybe working together to make such material. The objective would be in demonstrating how alert and aware of the roads riders need to be in the first place, besides its practical usage. At first glance, most can't understand the physics on how it works picturing it as a very hard to achieve skill. People I give training to leave in aprox. 5 hours (1 hr daily) ... the rest is practice makes perfect scenario. of course the first 5 hours are in no way acceptable for daily use but it's like a bicycle. you learn it in controlled environments then when you're up to it you make the use you need out of it.

Having said all the above, I conclude we agree that firstly we need to classify the current EUCs available and test results proving their safety.

[RenaissanceMan]

1 hour ago, IPS Malta said:

I didn't come across this post but yes we are on the same track.

We need to short list EUCs that surely take into consideration and the rider and provide safety measures and ensures protecting the rider more than the wheel. I cannot be set to this task as my opinions may be biased due to my line of business but surely it was something that I always considered when I was choosing my ride. (*)

Secondly we need to consider training and experience. Training should not only include riding time and ability but also possible scenarios and decision making on the roads (and side walks) (**)

Also as we where all born bare naked, I only think that the right of way should belong to pedestrians. Yet cars (and their drivers) prove to be the major decision making in right of way most of the time (due to the fact that they are surrounded by a strong cabin and gives a feeling of safety that some burst in wreck-less driving) . Taking all into consideration personally I always give right of way to anyone and anything everywhere. We all need minimal protection on an everyday ride. Personally I'm always wearing wrist protection and a helmet. We definitely have to signal all the time our direction to pedestrians and vehicles while also keep alert on all traffic around you all the time while obeying all the rules of the road. (***)

We need ideas how we can also promote this awareness and maybe working together to make such material. The objective would be in demonstrating how alert and aware of the roads riders need to be in the first place, besides its practical usage. At first glance, most can't understand the physics on how it works picturing it as a very hard to achieve skill. People I give training to leave in aprox. 5 hours (1 hr daily) ... the rest is practice makes perfect scenario. of course the first 5 hours are in no way acceptable for daily use but it's like a bicycle. you learn it in controlled environments then when you're up to it you make the use you need out of it. (****)

Having said all the above, I conclude we agree that firstly we need to classify the current EUCs available and test results proving their safety. (*****)

@IPS Malta

(*) What is you line of business and why would it interfere? Even if you were trading EUCs I don't see how that should keep you from making suggestions about driving behavior etc?

(**) Agreed, like some sort of (voluntary!) theoretical and practical proficiency tests. There have been several attempts and discussions in this forum on both, and we could build upon them.

(***) I'm with you on this one, particularly since EUC riders are still without any rights at all on German soil.

(****) Again, proficiency tests have been discussed in this forum elsewhere and could provide a starting point.

(*****) This is much easier said than done. I do not have access to engineers nor testing equipment and therfore cannot contribute original material here. However, several EUC models have been extensively tested and reviewed in this forum, and perhaps a thorough compilation of those reports could serve as a starting point.

[IPS Malta]

3 minutes ago, RenaissanceMan said:

@IPS Malta

(*) What is you line of business and why would it interfere? Even if you were trading EUCs I don't see how that should keep you from making suggestions about driving behavior etc?

(**) Agreed, like some sort of (voluntary!) theoretical and practical proficiency tests. There have been several attempts and discussions in this forum on both, and we could build upon them.

(***) I'm with you on this one, particularly since EUC riders are still without any rights at all on German soil.

(****) Again, proficiency tests have been discussed in this forum elsewhere and could provide a starting point.

(*****) This is much easier said than done. I do not have access to engineers nor testing equipment and therfore cannot contribute original material here. However, several EUC models have been extensively tested and reviewed in this forum, and perhaps a thorough compilation of those reports could serve as a starting point.

(*) yes If you're trading particular brand you're set to give biased opinions (Since of course we need to believe in the product we are trading). It needs to be someone who has no benefit in concluding a serious report.

(***) Here in Malta I don't know of any legal concerns yet. I was never stopped for riding it, yet I'm afraid trying to do something that might burst the bubble. I found it much easier to find written rules to fly a drone then rules to riding a unicycle. If there is some form of support in initiating something with authorities here, hoping for a positive long term outcome, while also hoping it is seen as a pilot project example to other countries I would be glad to initiate it here. Ideas are always welcome with regards.

As I commonly noticed when something negative incidence impacts a country, it ripples to the other countries. It takes a lot of effort to reverse the effect.

[Benjamin David Eady]

Hello
I'm moving to London from New Zealand. I've had two Gotway M-Supers which I love.
My questions are in regards to UK law stating that electric scooters are illegal on footpaths and roads.
Are the Police actively policing this law (are people actually being fined) or are people actively still riding about and just taking the risk that they may get a fine?
Are people still riding e-wheels in London or has the law killed them all off?
How about cycle ways and parks? Are people more or less stung on these?
It would be great to get some context as I'm trying to consider if I should ship my e-wheel there or am I just wasting my money?
It's been a few years now so I'm not sure if the hype has died down about it and the police and politicians have moved on to more important issues.

[Keith]

@Benjamin David Eady

For a long time it was thought the 1835 road traffic act applied re: riding on the sidewalk - that had a possible penalty of £50 and very few police were aware it even existed so a risk well worth taking. See for example: 

However there have been two cases now, one in Wales and one in London where the prosecution has been “driving a motor vehicle without insurance” this has resulted in hefty fines (£600) and 6 penalty points on their licences which will up car insurance substantially, I think the wheel may have been confiscated too?

Whilst one might conclude from 2 cases in an entire country (in what 3-4 years?) you have more chance of winning the lottery without buying a ticket, it has now severely upped the risk (IMHO). The legal, head up the arse, proof that our politicians don’t give a toss about green transport is that a personal electric vehicle is only legal without licence plates and insurance (both currently impossible to get) if it has peddles capable of moving it, a less than 250 Watt motor and 25km/h top powered speed. The last guy to be prosecuted was riding a 16km/h top speed Airwheel so considerably less of a threat to anyone than an electric bike and the Magistrate called him an idiot for not knowing it was illegal - something a would think 90+% of the public and police would also not know!  https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20171223/282119226908044

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Keith

[Kael]

1 hour ago, Keith said:

@Benjamin David Eady

For a long time it was thought the 1835 road traffic act applied re: riding on the sidewalk - that had a possible penalty of £50 and very few police were aware it even existed so a risk well worth taking. See for example: 

However there have been two cases now, one in Wales and one in London where the prosecution has been “driving a motor vehicle without insurance” this has resulted in hefty fines (£600) and 6 penalty points on their licences which will up car insurance substantially, I think the wheel may have been confiscated too?

Whilst one might conclude from 2 cases in an entire country (in what 3-4 years?) you have more chance of winning the lottery without buying a ticket, it has now severely upped the risk (IMHO). The legal, head up the arse, proof that our politicians don’t give a toss about green transport is that a personal electric vehicle is only legal without licence plates and insurance (both currently impossible to get) if it has peddles capable of moving it, a less than 250 Watt motor and 25km/h top powered speed. The last guy to be prosecuted was riding a 16km/h top speed Airwheel so considerably less of a threat to anyone than an electric bike and the Magistrate called him an idiot for not knowing it was illegal - something a would think 90+% of the public and police would also not know!  https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20171223/282119226908044

 

So... If you don't ride it on the road, you don't need insurance? I've ridden past plenty of police and only ever had smiles. A judge said it took him 30 seconds to find the relevant information? None of the information on the government website specifically mentions any one-wheeled vehicles, the closest approximation is a moped, which a unicycle is not. I wonder if what the defendant did was dangerous as he rode, that's the only reason I can see police taking umbrage. 

And the fact that electric bikes don't need to be registered, insured or taxed yet for some reason unicycles do? This country really does make some idiotic decisions sometimes. I can just imagine the dunce-filled meeting from which these regulations, like the 250W power limit, were vomited.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Kael

[Benjamin David Eady]

Thanks for that Kael. It's great info.
I think from what I read about that last guy who got fined was that he already had a disqualified license which would have gone against him too.
from what I've read of the law it has quite a big section on not using electric transport as a substitute when disqualified.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Benjamin David Eady

[Cannings]

I have been riding in the uk (not in london mind) for the last 4 months and not had any issues and the same as kael only had inquisitive smiles and looks when going past police even if they are parked up as i'm going past them

[pasterpl]

Hi all,

I am thinking about getting Ninebot Z10 and use it as my main transportation to get in and out of work. I live in London so there is a camera on every corner and plenty of police, wondering if there was any update in regards to your experiences riding on PEV's in London?

[Logan]

I'm in Leeds and also wondering what the status of this is, seems the topic has died down for over a year...

I'm a student and my commute is pretty far, so a EUC would be ideal, I just don't feel like shelling out a bunch of money and then having it confiscated or worse...!

Thanks!

[Logan]

And I found this, from March, wonder where it's at currently...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/09/electric-scooters-uk-road-ban-set-to-end

[Planemo]

No change re current law. EUC's are still illegal.

We can only hope that if scooters are made legal, they lump in all forms of PEV. I won't hold my breath though - scooters could be seen as inherently safer than EUC's (2 wheels and proper brakes for starters) so if, and it's a big if, they allow scooters then I would not be surprised if the policy is so strict that it effectively eliminates anything other than a scooter. A bit like e-bike rules.

One thing I am almost positive of is that there will be a speed limit and maximum motor wattage. It's the wattage that will kill it for EUC's - I imagine it would be no more than 250w, the same as an e-bike.

[pasterpl]

I just came across this petition; https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/257533

Maybe it is worthwhile sharing it on social media etc.

[Retrovertigo]

I know I mentioned this in the scooter thread re: the accident that happened the other day. But you just know that if they could monetise the use of EUC's and scooters, they would be made legal very quickly indeed. 

It is crazy that they are pushing harder and harder to stop cars going into cities, yet only offer buses or pushbikes as an alternative. If there were headlines all the time from other countries about the dangers of scooters or EUC's I would understand. 

And the fact that they would confiscate a scooter or EUC is appalling to be honest.

I'm in Manchester and haven't ever seen a scooter or EUC on the road. I've seen a few students using traditional unicycles to get to Uni, but that is about it. I have no idea if a traditional unicycle is legal or not to be honest?

I'm worried about sticking out like a sore thumb when I pick up my first EUC in the next few days. At least at first I'll just be at my home and in the private car park here while I learn. Then I'm thinking about the side roads I can use in order to get to more private areas, like the walkways along the rivers here. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Retrovertigo

[Planemo]

On the one hand I would say don't sweat it. In the real world, the chance of you getting your ECU seized is so low as to be inconsequential.

On the other, the law is the law and that means there will always be a risk, however small. Granted, I do think about often as I could well do without getting 2 wheels seized with a loss of £1700 but that's the chance we take. I avoid police at all costs and don't ride like a dick. TBH I am disappointed at the speeds I see UK riders pass pedestrians whilst watching YouTube vids. I will pass at barely faster than they are walking as people are unpredictable, as are animals. However, the primary reason is because I don't want people to get the hump/scared/shocked by a faster moving vehicle suddenly passing them. A few complaints into the local rag or councillor will initiate widespread scorn and no doubt enforcement on these crazy one-wheeled machines. At the very least all it will do is aggravate people which is the last thing I would want to do whilst cavorting around on an illegal vehicle.

Good question re the law on a pedal unicycle - believe it or not I have a feeling that they would be illegal as the wording states 'bicycle'. Unless there is a clause elsewhere. The Road Traffic Act 1988 (Sec 192) defines a cycle as a "bicycle, tricycle, or cycle having four or more wheels, not being in any case mechanically propelled".
 

[Guest PogArt Artur]

On 10/12/2015 at 1:59 PM, Gimlet said:

Luckily all my local police, who often stop to ask questions are only interested in a good way.

Same over here in Bradford.

I'm meeting cops every single day commuting, foot patrol, vans, cars...

Sometime they're following me close behind for a while to watch me 😎

Sometime they like to have a chat regarding what I'm riding on, everytime very friendly.

This morning something happened in the town, they have blocked streets on my way to work, so I stopped by and have asked them politely, whether I can pass through or not 😁

Only good experience so far. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by PogArt Artur

[stephen]

1 hour ago, PogArt Artur said:

This morning something happened in the town, they have blocked streets on my way to work, so I stopped by and have asked them politely, whether I can pass through or not 😁

Your getting brave now 👍

[Guest PogArt Artur]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

Your getting brave now 👍

Hahahaaa 😁

I might end up with the Z being seized one day , if I carry on like this 🤣😂🤣

Brave or silly - that's the question of a day 🤔

🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂

😎

[Huxley]

Just a heads up, looks like they've now changed the law to include powered unicycles.

 

2. What are powered transporters?

The term “powered transporters” covers a variety of novel personal transport devices which are mechanically propelled (propelled by a motor) as well as or instead of being manually propelled. It includes e-scooters, Segways, hoverboards, go-peds (combustion engine-powered kick-scooters), powered unicycles, and u-wheels.

This term does not include electrically-assisted pedal cycles (EAPCs), which have their own regulatory framework.

[Planemo]

Not sure what they have changed? EUC's were always illegal as they are mechanically propelled.